Buds not putting on weight

PaulieWaulie · Oct 22, 2018

So I have reached the skill level of an organic grower where I can veg in my mix and plants grow lush and vigorous with no deficiencies, and I have only put the healthiest plants into the bloom room.

But in bloom around day 30, I start getting worried that the buds are not filling out properly.
I can't see any deficiencies, the leaves look perky and are praying, other than a tiny amount of tip burn I don't see any nutrient burn, leaves are on the darker side, but not extremely dark where I would think it is an issue.

My nutrient mix is on the richer side as I only feed water during bloom and want to keep it simple for now. Temps are 77-82 lights on (most of the time just under 80), 60-70 lights off. Brand new 1000W hortilux super eye bulbs

Is it possible that my mix is too rich? Is this common or possible with organics? I thought plants take what they need in organics, and this whole nutrient lockout thing doesn't happen in real soil. I figured I rather have a rich soil, as opposed to seeing a def., on day 30, catching it a week later with a top dress or compost tea, by which time too much stress has occurred and growth is affected. As well compost teas actually caused some problems on the last grow as I think there is already enough in my soil mix.

Here they are Day 34 blueberry cheesecake

PaulieWaulie · Oct 22, 2018

Here is another strain on Day 40 it is Scotts OG x Agent Orange

The tops seem to go lime green

PaulieWaulie · Oct 22, 2018

here is my soil mix.

PaulieWaulie · Oct 22, 2018

Here are the BBCH before flip.

TychoMonolyth · Oct 22, 2018

Hum... I'm an outdoor grower and the only time I see growth like that is when I plant in corn north/south. East/West they produce and fatten up, otherwise they foxtail like shit and never fatten up.

I only plant in areas where the farmer missed a couple rows. I chock it up to not enough direct light. But that shouldn't be your issue.

PaulieWaulie · Oct 22, 2018

Yes, brand new bulb, 1000W over a 4x4 area, and some of these are directly under the light. 24" from bulb.

TychoMonolyth · Oct 22, 2018

I don't know... but when I baby my shit, it rarely goes well for me. So my instincts tell me your mix is too complicated.

When I see leaves like that outside I think low N. Indoor either low N or light bleaching. But even that shouldn't affect bud weight.

bsgospel · Oct 22, 2018

PaulieWaulie said:
here is my soil mix.

View Image

I've got a theory but let me gather some information

Amendments- Is this per container?

How much time between pruning those lowers and flip to flower?

bsgospel · Oct 22, 2018

And also, how long do you veg total?

Ratzilla · Oct 22, 2018

You are correct PaulieWaulie about the plant being in charge.
Meaning they decide what they want to uptake by what exudes it sends to the roots.
Myself i prefer my medium to be light in amendments (mix in globally) and leave what i call buried treasures featuring P & K on the bottom of my flowering pots.
My vegetative pots are done this same way only it features higher N.
I think one of the important things to remember is that mychorrizal fungi is responsible for much of the uptake of phosphorus.
Do you know that liquid P only retards the growth of the fungi, so no liquids !
Also fertilizer with high ratio of P also retards this growth.
I try and not use any fertilizer that has a higher ratio of P then a 8 during flowering.

Being that P and K are the elements most needed for flowering but I do not change my vegetative elements until after the stretch is over ,approximately 2.5-3 weeks after clock is set back for the plants still need much N to build the mass that is needed for bud development.
I'll do this with top dressing of N my favorite is 10-2-1 bat guano, I mix it with some worm castings, the guano's are readily available for 10-12 days.
When I make teas i do it for the beastie's that they bring not so much a feeding.
A good care taker provides what the plant wants at the right time but always give the plant the choice if it wants to uptake it or not.
By leaving a table spoon or 3-4 of P & K here or there on the bottom of your containers instead of mix in globally is the key factor.
Hoping for you to reach that next level!
RatZilla :tiphat:

Limeygreen · Oct 22, 2018

Looks like you're running short on magnesium and potassium, hence the lime green early on. You may also need some extra iron and manganese but for simplicity sake, you could try one tsp of epsom salt per us gallon of water around week 3, say day 21 of bloom. You may find that week 2,3-4 and 5 it beneficial to do something like a insect frass tea with bokashi and small amount of molasses to help push up your potassium a little bit more. Coconut water from week 2-4, even into 5 can help push the potassium up as well (1 tsp freeze dried coconut water per 5 gallons of water) it doesn't take much.

if you don't like to make teas etc you should consider top dressing with things like fish bone meal, comfrey, gypsum, oyster shell flour, earth worm castings, insect frass and bokashi. nice easy things to break down especially with fungal networks like bokashi helps establish or lacto bacillus, em-1 etc.

Modern methods website will give you a general guideline of a feeding programme or if you look into the ferments that people are making, they can give great boosts to your plants and cost very little to make while not building up a residue in your flowers.

PaulieWaulie · Oct 22, 2018

Limeygreen said:
Looks like you're running short on magnesium and potassium, hence the lime green early on. You may also need some extra iron and manganese but for simplicity sake, you could try one tsp of epsom salt per us gallon of water around week 3, say day 21 of bloom. You may find that week 2,3-4 and 5 it beneficial to do something like a insect frass tea with bokashi and small amount of molasses to help push up your potassium a little bit more. Coconut water from week 2-4, even into 5 can help push the potassium up as well (1 tsp freeze dried coconut water per 5 gallons of water) it doesn't take much.

if you don't like to make teas etc you should consider top dressing with things like fish bone meal, comfrey, gypsum, oyster shell flour, earth worm castings, insect frass and bokashi. nice easy things to break down especially with fungal networks like bokashi helps establish or lacto bacillus, em-1 etc.

Modern methods website will give you a general guideline of a feeding programme or if you look into the ferments that people are making, they can give great boosts to your plants and cost very little to make while not building up a residue in your flowers.

Hey Limey, thanks for the suggestions, I really think it is not a def. maybe a lockout causing a def, but then the solution isnt more nutrients. The reason I don't think it is possible is that as you can see by my amendment recipe that I use almost 4 cups of meals per cubic foot, that is on the higher end. Not only that but I did a first run that didn't do amazing for various other reasons as well besides the mix, and I recycled that soil and re amended with the full amount again. So this is the 2nd if not 3rd time it has been amended at that rate. Additionally I make my own high quality compost and EWC, and my mix consists of 30% of this. Additionally, I have not seen massive growth at any time that would warrant or suggest that the soils available nutrients have been depleted. It just hasn't happend in this soil. I do one plant per sq ft, from clone, and 4 weeks of veg, and then massive lolipop and trim so to just leave the main top foot of growth.

Again I appreciate that suggestion, but I don't want to steer this thread further in that direction of more teas, more top dress.

On my next run I am doing a side by side where I have one plant in soil at full strength and one plant at 1/2 strength just dilute with 50% pro mix. Then I will see the dif between rich and less rich soil. With the amount I have in there at this time I should have no dificiences, esp of micros.

aridbud · Oct 22, 2018

They look great! I see fattening up in the last few weeks with our...and maybe it's the genes (sativa dominant). Every plant has a mind of their own! ;o)

Patience, grasshopper....mighty fine grow you've got!

Dog Star · Oct 22, 2018

To me it looks like soil is maybe too rich with nutes and they suffocate in them,
cant absorb them properly so there is a lock... its not best phase of growth
to flush while if you add more nutes problem will just deepen in negative side..

flower looks like there is too much of N and it blocks Mg..,
thats why it also shows Mg problems..

flushing on a half of flowering can made problems and plant can choose to rid
of leafes that will negative affect further flowering..

maybe to give them just plain water and a bit Mg,Ca,S... maybe they fill in and
maybe problem will be solved,hard to say since i dont have experience with
your soil mix.. also good thing will be to try to flush one pot just for experiment
and then measure this runoff with PH/EC meter so you will know is it overload
or not..

gladysvjubb · Oct 22, 2018

You should be feeding them CHA-CHING. Right now! Fatten up those buds!

bsgospel · Oct 23, 2018

No woo-woo needed.

Drop a couple worms in there for a few days and report back.

You're living off of organic matter and castings but none of your macro amendments are being mineralized. You need microorganisms to start breaking everything down. I bet all your values are totally in range if only they were available. Organics can take quite a long time to mineralize unless you force the issue.

And I think you could stand to leave more branches on there. Throughout all of veg into florescence, it's been sending a certain amount of protein and carbs and lipids into storage and sinks that are later accessed in mature processes and filling. That's your lime green on the tops at this week in the process. When you flipped into flower, your concentration of nitrogen lowered and spread out dramatically- and now there's no well to draw from because you're only feeding water.

Your buds look sticky as hell, no doubt. And if in a few weeks you start to see some filling out as gypsum or some potassium source breaks down from whatever previous harvest- I'll walk back my theory.

Mineralize + green mass. Even if the wimpier branches/leaves don't work out great- they're still contributing greatly to metabolism.

MedResearcher · Oct 23, 2018

Never grown the BBCC, but the normal Cheese, takes a very long time. It doesn't really get thick and heavy until the very very end.

Cheese is truely a waiting game. Doesn't look like much until right at the end, enough patience and... boom Cheddar Funk rock bud!

Little dialing around and you will hit your sweet spot. Cant go wrong with more worms to.

Mr^^

DTOM420 · Oct 23, 2018

I’ll bet they fill out. Just give it some time and don’t stress out. They look pretty darn healthy so have faith!

Limeygreen · Oct 23, 2018

Have you sent in a soil sample (field soil test with base saturation) to see what's happening in your soil? If you haven't, it would a be a good place to start, slow nickle has a big thread that discusses soil test and some strategies.

Microbeman · Oct 23, 2018

Paulie; Looking at your plants in veg; Did you trim these like a lot man? If so, then I agree with whomever suggested not doing that so much. The leaves are what contribute energy to the flowers. Having said that, I think you are fine.

Buds not putting on weight

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