Screw-in around. High wattage SIL grows & designs

The title says it all, here is a place for growers utilizing screw in LED bulbs, on a larger scale than considered normal.

Lets see how far we can push the limit. Is their even a limit on the amount of bulbs one could possibly use, or should there be?

Lets see those tents packed with SILs, or even large rooms, or warehouses for that matter.

What's the most bulbs you have used? Do you plan to invest in scaling up the amount you already do? Is this a crazy idea altogether in your opinion?

Is it worth it? Could the currently cheap/not so cheap LED bulbs out-perform the latest advances in LED lighting technolgy, and at the lowest possible cost?



Is there a way to make it work? Lets find out shall we!

I have a bit more than 840 watts in a 5X5 tent, do I qualify? Is that "normal". Gosh, I hope not! Lol

I'd like to be the first around to break the 1,000 watt barrier, but I think that would be way overkill for 25 square feet. I don't think this system outperforms modern quantum boards with the latest, most efficient diodes. I'm running 33.6 watts per square foot. Those guys can get away with 20 watts per square foot. But if electricity costs are lower where you live, this is a perfect solution to the high cost of such a setup. It cost me just over $300 Canadian dollars to light my 25 square feet. Using the most efficient diodes and drivers available to light this area today where I live could cost me literally thousands - depending if I went DIY or ready to go of course. It would take me 10 years of growing to realize any cost savings with the most "modern" lighting option with my electrical cost.

But perhaps I actually SAVE in electricity. You can dim individual Q-boards, but regular LED light bulbs can easily be turned on and off simply by screwing them in all the way - or not. That way, I start my seedlings under a couple bulbs each in their permanent growing place (I'm doing no-till organic), then screw in more bulbs as the 4 individual plants grow. I have control over color temp, using the daylight/cool white initially, but adding a few warm bulbs to the mix as the plants get large. This kind of flexibility can result in significant cost savings electrical-wise, because we don't want to light the tent floor! Tent floors do not produce bud. The flexibility allows us to direct photons to where we want them.

I'm really liking how this works!

Yes you're doing it right, and your watts/sqf are ok too.
No need to dim, just screw out a couple bulbs and voila, done.

I wouldn't be too pessimistic, I am of the opinion that a proper SIL setup will outperform most commercially available lights and be cheaper. I use 10x 13w 1521 lumen Philips bulbs and have yet to find anything that produces more bud per watt.
I must say I have not tried the latest 2019 state of the art LED fixtures, but I reckon they won't be cheap, and the low SIL costs will make up for potentially better efficiency of the latest diodes.
I don't have the room to go bigger atm, but I reckon you'll need 30x 13w SILs to replace a 1k hps light. If you upscale, this and the costs for area lit won't change, so I can't get why not more people are doing it.
For me, if I had the space, this would be the way to go after having tried all sorts of lights over the years.
CC

I like these 13.5 watt "Cool" non-dimmable LED's. (Color Temp 5000K)

$5 for a 4-pack, when you can find them.

That's the best price I've found.

The 100 watt, 15.5 watt is about $8 a four-pack.

The equivalent Warm light is about $7 a 4-pack. (Color Temp 2700K)

I have 2 panels, one is 2x4 feet, the other is 2x3 feet.

Using them for Lettuce-ish grows indoors, but will probably find time to germ some Cannabis to keep the Lettuce company.

Got 37 sockets on the 2x4 foot light panel, so that's about 500 watts of LED light.

I like the combination of 2700K & 5000K color temps & SIL bulbs. I find it works better than a normal COB lamp for some plants.



Will get a picture of the whole light panel with the sockets etc.

Hastings said:

I have a bit more than 840 watts in a 5X5 tent, do I qualify? Is that "normal". Gosh, I hope not! Lol

I'd like to be the first around to break the 1,000 watt barrier, but I think that would be way overkill for 25 square feet. I don't think this system outperforms modern quantum boards with the latest, most efficient diodes. I'm running 33.6 watts per square foot. Those guys can get away with 20 watts per square foot. But if electricity costs are lower where you live, this is a perfect solution to the high cost of such a setup. It cost me just over $300 Canadian dollars to light my 25 square feet. Using the most efficient diodes and drivers available to light this area today where I live could cost me literally thousands - depending if I went DIY or ready to go of course. It would take me 10 years of growing to realize any cost savings with the most "modern" lighting option with my electrical cost.


I'm really liking how this works!

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That's what's up man! All you need is a few more bulbs to break the barrier. One more of your 20 bulb fixtures and you would be top gun in the SIL world right now. Even if you used it for a picture, but then use the extra fixture for veg after the achievement award and recognition. I think you already won it to be honest.

I'd be lagging behind like Goose with 60x15.5 930w array to start with in a little over a 4.5x3.5 area (overkill as i'm told but I'll be able to raise it up and switch rows off, and have my reasons for doing so). Then another 930w right next to it, after doing a side by side of the 930 on one side of the room, and with 2 HPS 1000s dimmed to 50% each on the other. I use 1000 on each side previously but I don't like the hot spot it creates. I'm sure the HPS side is gonna kill, people are telling me the SIL side is gonna over kill it. They also say what you are doing now shouldn't be done.

A little history, I haven't flowered fully with just SILs, but only supplemented in a few grows. I have done enough testing during veg with 8.5-9w bulbs over the last 2 years and am very pleased with the results I've seen. I'm even more pleased with what I've been seeing with SIL flowers and other growers results online, but usually on a smaller scale than what I know is possible until lately.

I've been wanting to do a full cycle in my flower room with just screw ins for over a year, and had the idea to build larger fixtures, to try and beat my HPS. Or at the least get a more uniform spread over my scrogs, and all the other pro's that come with LED. I've never really been pro-LED at all until lately, but i'm always excited to try new things, just my nature. I'm impressed with my friends gardens, utilizing there commercial systems, but not the price they spent. I tried to talk them into DIY COBs/panels but nope, they rather spend thousands on premade fixtures, etc.

I had planned to use $1 9w bulbs for a large fixture (with 96 ebay chinese base sockets @ $4 a 10 pk) but times have changed and so has my mind.

Fast forward to late 2018, and the price of 100w equivalent Great Value bulbs has dropped almost 50%! Not only that, but I have came up with a design for a fixture that does away with the sockets as well, lowering the total cost of the build by another 50% give or take (especially if using quality sockets as the 14-16w bulbs get hot). Now it's time to play, and go big while the gettin's good.

I hope to eventually come up with a way to scale up SIL arrays, as big as one would want to go, even for large rooms in the 10's of thousands of watts. While possibly saving 10's of thousands of dollars, with a few new designs that can be made quickly from locally sourced scratch materials. I've thought of a way to reduce cost a bit, while possibly extending the life hours of the bulbs, which could make the purchasing of 100's or 1000's of screw in LED's more inviting.

I also want to play in my own personal garden, and build "overkill" fixtures just under 1000 actual watts, with added functions that have not been seen before. Utilizing SILS as the main resource for LED components, because why not? I don't mind failures, or spending a few hundred dollars to test my idea's, which I'm sure will work great and benefit the community.

See below some of my current designs, meet the Air Cooled & or socket-less SIL fixture concepts, and stay tuned for new ideas:

The cost of bare sockets varies a lot.

Have found the same socket - with pre-stripped leads - from $1+ to $4 locally.

If you're doing a lot of sockets, that matters.

Drop That Sound said:

See below some of my current designs, meet the Air Cooled & or socket-less SIL fixture concepts, and stay tuned for new ideas:

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Thanks for sharing that. Very interesting. Getting rid of the cost of sockets while making a nice looking panel is a great advantage. The only thing for me is that I used so many different brands of bulbs, each is a slightly different form factor so they wouldn't seat the same distance if the holes were the same diameter. I'd also lose some flexibility (being able to easily turn individual bulbs on and off). But great idea non-the-less.

What's crazy about it is, every one of those lights has an AC to DC converter, when all the LED needs is roughly a 10 volt power supply.

But the screw in socket makes a decent power distribution system, and the price on screw in bulbs is great, even with the added cost of a theoretically unnecessary power converter.

This shows my light panel. Baby lettuce and everything.

The cats dig in the soil, sometimes just out of curiosity. So I have to put up the metal mesh to keep the cats off.





I used extension cord wire and some 18 gauge electrical wire from Alltronics in San Jose CA, to do the wiring.

The sockets have 1 white wire and 1 black wire. So I wire all the white wires into one BIG white wire sort-of-sculpture.

And a big black wire piece of wiring.

I put duct tape over at least 1/2 the ends of the exposed wire. It is live 115 VAC after all. I need to go back and put twisties on all the exposed wire pieces.

I soldered ALL the connections. Nothing like the smell of Flux and Cannabis.


So, do you think I'll get my rent deposit back ?

Actually, you don't have all the information. It's a male cat, and he's not fixed. He doesn't pee everywhere, but I think un-fixed male cats get along better with hardwood floors.

So there is a smell factor and I wouldn't get my rent deposit back without some SERIOUS carpet cleaning.

I wish the cats could talk so I could see how they think this light compares to warm sun-light.

500w in a 2x4 fixture is 62.5w/sqft.. that seems like a lot to me? I've had good luck vegging under 20-25, and see others flowering having good results flowering around 30-40w. Any particular reason why you left the plastic globes on them?

Definitely need to remove the plastic domes.

Hookahhead said:

500w in a 2x4 fixture is 62.5w/sqft.. that seems like a lot to me? I've had good luck vegging under 20-25, and see others flowering having good results flowering around 30-40w. Any particular reason why you left the plastic globes on them?

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Wouldn't that logic mean a 1000w HPS in a 6" x 24" cooltube fixture is around 500w per sq ft?

I do realize though, that most plan to mount the bulbs spread out more, and down within 3-4 inches. Definitely cost effective that way, in materials and the electric bill. Especially when managing a smaller grow that is easier to train, and only dealing with one fixture. But what about on a large scale, with multiple areas? I would want my SILs hanging more like 8-10 inches above. So I could see whats going on, without raising the lights all the time.



There are pro's (as well as con's too) to adding more bulbs closer together, and raising the panels. If you have the height to do it, surely the plants will still take all the light in. He is getting a slightly wider spread of probably 6 inches to the sides of the fixture too. I think it would allow more light to reach down into the canopy as well, with slightly better penetration like COBs have.. yet spread out more. It all depends on how you use it in the end.

Also, I suppose leaving the globe on doesn't ruin the warranty, which i'm sure we are voiding by using more than 3 hours a day anyway. But how they supposed to know that, when heading to walmart to return a crate full of SILs, in the unfortunate event the newer bulb models don't hold up as long as they state on the box\warranty? Not saying we should violate the terms, but what if Great Value is the one that violated our trust in their product to begin with?




I'll agree though, removing the globes makes them way brighter, and the great value ones aren't that hard to do. The rim on the globe is flat (and they cheap out and barely use any adhesive), and rolling a large butcher knife in between the housing and the globe on a flat surface, i'm able to remove it within 20 seconds a bulb. On some other brands i've noticed the globe recesses into the housing at an angle, making the job more difficult. Thanks great value!

Also, just out of curiosity.. What do you guys do with all your removed globe diffusers? I'm always looking for way's to recycle plastics, I even hoard all my plastic bottles for other projects and whatnot.

I'm about to have 100's of them laying around, and thinking they could make an interesting art piece or something. Possibly use them on another DIY grow project. I'll be voiding the warranty on my bulbs from the start so no reason to keep them intact really..

Drop That Sound said:

Wouldn't that logic mean a 1000w HPS in a 6" x 24" cooltube fixture is around 500w per sq ft

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Good catch, you're right I was assuming that was going to be the footprint he was illuminating.

I'm sure he'll respond, but I'm thinking he left the globes on because of his cat. It's a good call, I'm sure the diodes can give you one nasty burn pretty quickly. Though I'll say, I've accidentally brushed my arm or plants against them a few times with no noticeable harm. I've been lucky, I definitely expected a bad burn every time it's happened.

Personally I'm not concerned about warranty. I would rather buy a new bulb than waste the lumens. If it's only a bulb or 2 you could probably glue the globe back on with super glue. My first bulb I bought, I chipped one of the LEDs removing the globe. This effectively killed the bulb, none of the diodes would light. I just put the globe back on top (not glued) and put it back in the package. I told the returns person I didn't notice it was broke when I bought it, and since it's not worth arguing over a few $$ they gladly replaced it. They would always rather give you credit than cash anyway.

I am currently using 4 Osram 9.5w bulbs advertised as 1055 lumen over a 2 sq foot area. I only use it for veg, seedling - 6 week old plants. It has been my observation that when the plants grow to within 6" of the bulbs, growth slows. If I don't move the lights or the plants within a few days the tops will start to bleach. If I move the light an inch, the plants will grow an inch in a day or 2. So it's better for me to keep them around 8" away, so that I'm not moving the lights or training on a daily basis.

Hookahhead said:

500w in a 2x4 fixture is 62.5w/sqft.. that seems like a lot to me? I've had good luck vegging under 20-25, and see others flowering having good results flowering around 30-40w. Any particular reason why you left the plastic globes on them?

Click to expand...

Didn't even think about taking the globes off.

Good point, that would help light output.

But I'm not looking for perfection, just a small indoor garden during the cold season.

Hookahhead said:

Good catch, you're right I was assuming that was going to be the footprint he was illuminating.

I'm sure he'll respond, but I'm thinking he left the globes on because of his cat. It's a good call, I'm sure the diodes can give you one nasty burn pretty quickly. Though I'll say, I've accidentally brushed my arm or plants against them a few times with no noticeable harm. I've been lucky, I definitely expected a bad burn every time it's happened.

Personally I'm not concerned about warranty. I would rather buy a new bulb than waste the lumens. If it's only a bulb or 2 you could probably glue the globe back on with super glue. My first bulb I bought, I chipped one of the LEDs removing the globe. This effectively killed the bulb, none of the diodes would light. I just put the globe back on top (not glued) and put it back in the package. I told the returns person I didn't notice it was broke when I bought it, and since it's not worth arguing over a few $$ they gladly replaced it. They would always rather give you credit than cash anyway.

I am currently using 4 Osram 9.5w bulbs advertised as 1055 lumen over a 2 sq foot area. I only use it for veg, seedling - 6 week old plants. It has been my observation that when the plants grow to within 6" of the bulbs, growth slows. If I don't move the lights or the plants within a few days the tops will start to bleach. If I move the light an inch, the plants will grow an inch in a day or 2. So it's better for me to keep them around 8" away, so that I'm not moving the lights or training on a daily basis.

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I think his fixture IS the cat's lol.

I never heard of the company Osram until a few days ago. Heard they are the first to develop ceramic base LED diodes, which are gonna increase the life span almost 10 fold, and delay the degradation of phosphors over time. I wonder if they will incorporate that into their SILs?

BTW I plan to cram 60 bulbs into a 4 x 3+ fixture, and was thinking I'll be hanging over 10+ inches above canopy especially if i'm running at full blast with 930w. Id rather have too much than not enough, and gonna wire different rows of bulbs with multiple switches and sprectrum pattern configurations. I won't be able to unscrew bulbs with my designs like most do, which is a great way to save on energy costs and simple. I'll simply flick switches to reduce power consumption.

I plan on using like 5-6 standard home light switches that cost $0.68 each, but have boxes of them already. Even gonna use receptical boxes and covers for the switches. I might wire them inside the fixture or add a smaller box on one end of the fixture for electronics, and plan to upgrade later with built in digi timers so I can program rows of lights or different spectrum bulbs to turn on/off at certain times of the day.

I know the light is gonna spread out (more like COBs) , and might even tilt the bulbs on the sides outwards a few degrees, by adding a thin slanted plate to the top of my panel just around the perimeter for the bulbs to mount. Just so I can cover the total area with light, and have room around the fixture instead of right against the walls.

I know 930w per fixture sounds overkill, but if you guys seen the kind of monstrous single plants I grow sometimes, in my smaller flower room, you would understand. The bulbs are pretty cheap anyway compared to other LED options. I keep my canopies pretty flat and scrogged, but sometimes they get a little out of control, or I don't have time to train. And I run different plant ratios with my hydro setups often. So more bulbs and higher up is in my advantage.


Oh and I plan to run c02 once I get a feel for LEDs. That means I can probably blast the plants with 1500 umols, instead of the recommended 1200 @ 4" or so, in the micro grower SIL thread.

Drop That Sound said:

Also, just out of curiosity.. What do you guys do with all your removed globe diffusers? I'm always looking for way's to recycle plastics, I even hoard all my plastic bottles for other projects and whatnot.

I'm about to have 100's of them laying around, and thinking they could make an interesting art piece or something. Possibly use them on another DIY grow project. I'll be voiding the warranty on my bulbs from the start so no reason to keep them intact really..

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Haha, that's funny because my wife made me save all those globes because she thought she might make a lamp out of them. She said he might glue them together to make a cylindrical wall, then put a light inside. Perhaps she thinks we still don't have enough yet for the project because the bag full of them is still there. And the glue gun remains on the wall.

Man, I remember doing a version of this with CFLs. Similarly, is it it worth it after buying all the right components? For the fixtures, connection, wiring, mounting and bulbs are you saving a significant amount compared to a COB diy?

elrey said:

Man, I remember doing a version of this with CFLs. Similarly, is it it worth it after buying all the right components? For the fixtures, connection, wiring, mounting and bulbs are you saving a significant amount compared to a COB diy?

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Hey elrey, I sure hope it will be. Check out my design on the 1st page, I'll be modifying the bulbs a bit more (by pulling the screw end off with pliers) so that I don't need base sockets at all, just wire and wingnuts, for the circuits. That alone is saving me $. Bulbs are cheap now too where i'm at. You cant beat $2.08 for a 15.5 watt bulb anywhere else that I know of. Unless you buy $1.00 9w bulbs, but then you need more sockets which can cost more..






If I used cheap sockets shipped free from Hong Kong they are 40 cents a peice, so around $28 for my current design, but have to wait a month to ship. Also, the quality is sub par and they use aluminum painted to look like copper, with no UL listing. I would use them with 8-9 watt bulbs I suppose. Quality sockets here in the US can range anywhere from $1-3+ a piece, depending on where I source them. X that by 60 on my first fixture and the cost go's way up, more than the bulbs themselves possibly.

I'm getting a little more involved with my builds by sealing the fixtures off and air cooling the SIL's on a closed loop, so I can remove some of the heat from the room, without using as much AC. But it's not really needed that way. I think it will drastically improve the lifespan of the bulbs as well, making the investment more worth it in the long run, by cooling the components that are stuffed into a medium base and get hot as heck as is.

One could simply take a sheet of plywood or other rigid material, cut to the dimension you need, and drill as many holes as you need for the amount of bulbs you plan to run. Just glue over the holes around the rim the globe is removed from. Especially if running the new great value brand bulbs, where the rim of the bulbs base is flat, and the PCB with diodes is protruding out and not inside. I'm sure it could work with most bulbs though.







I just purchased over 60 15.5 watt bulbs at walmart, half 2700 and half 5000. The 60 I want to start with cost around $140 total, and equals 930 actual watts as stated on the boxes all added up. I got the 4 pks, $8.26 for Soft white 2700k. And a little more for daylight 5000k, for like $9.70 something.


So for the 140, and depending on how fancy I get with extras, and cost of wiring/wingnuts/plywood (another 100?) I'll have a true 930 watt LED grow light that is unlike any made before, and just the way I want it. I won't even need that much power according to the awesome ppl here on IC mag, but Id like to have 60 bulbs x 15.5 anyway, because I can always turn rows of them off. Or have more of a certain spectrum on at any given time, if that makes sense.

I'm told 30 bulbs alone would replace an HPS, so think of it as I have 2 fixtures in one, a 5000k and a 2700k at the flip of a switch, without messing around or unscrewing bulbs. Or a combo, or full 930w blast if I want, raised up for more coverage. Bulbs are so cheap so why not right?

I've got most the materials on hand or at the shop, So i may well be under $200 for the whole build, depending on what I plan to use. That's not counting the time it takes to wire it up, and come up with the plan, which keeps changing the more I think about it. Right now i'm just gathering materials as I finish off other projects that got delayed this last summer. I got most the bulbs incase the price go's back up, or they go back to 14w ones, etc.

A visit to any online online shops tells me i'm saving so much compared to commercial and even DIY kits that I don't mind spending the time to invent new ideas. I see SIL's as a gold mine if they were scaled up properly, and i'm sure the commercial LED industry is scared that the secret is getting out there.




I'll be fully breaking down one of each of the bulbs sometime this week. To see how long the wire leads are, if any at all, and if I need to change my plan at all. If they aren't long enough than standard wingnuts might not work, might have to solder a connector or use smaller tube crimp connectors instead, no big deal though. My builds will revolve around walmart bulbs for now.