315w CMH questions

Today I was reading this thread:
Side by side grow. 630 CMH vs 1000HPS

And I was inspired, I have just a few questions about these lights.

1. What is considered the #1 flowering bulb for a 315w CMH?
2. Can you get these close to the plants like a 400w? I have used LEDs with low output that bleach if you don't give a ton of room, in this setup I have height restrictions.
3. Do these run hotter than a 400w HPS globe? What about the ballast? Does it get as warm as a digital hps balast?
4. Is 3x3 a realistic footprint or is 2.5x2.5 more suited? I typically run a 600w on 3x3 or a 1000w on 4x4
5. Vertical or horizontal reflector? I was looking at the Nanolux vertical.

Thanks a lot.

Its a new year, maybe youll read it this time...

Ibechillin said:

READ THE LIGHTING STICKY!

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Ibechillin said:

Its a new year, maybe youll read it this time...

Click to expand...

The information you've provided is useful but it's nothing new to me, I've used LEDs with "superior" spectrums before, claims of 300w beating 600w and the results are not even close, the science is useless when a light can't penetrate a canopy.

I'm after real world feedback not science, thanks.

thebakedroo said:

Today I was reading this thread:
Side by side grow. 630 CMH vs 1000HPS

And I was inspired, I have just a few questions about these lights.

1. What is considered the #1 flowering bulb for a 315w CMH?
2. Can you get these close to the plants like a 400w? I have used LEDs with low output that bleach if you don't give a ton of room, in this setup I have height restrictions.
3. Do these run hotter than a 400w HPS globe? What about the ballast? Does it get as warm as a digital hps balast?
4. Is 3x3 a realistic footprint or is 2.5x2.5 more suited? I typically run a 600w on 3x3 or a 1000w on 4x4
5. Vertical or horizontal reflector? I was looking at the Nanolux vertical.

Thanks a lot.

Click to expand...

I’ve actually flowered more grows with an LED than a CMH. The few CMH grows have given me a better end product flower though. It’s mainly my veg light right now since I’ve been flowering outdoors lately. Nice mix of light quality, heat, and ease of use.

1. Philips 3100K best specs and most reviews. Ushio did well for me, beautiful full spectrum. Hortilux? Maybe, no reviews

2. Yes. Just hand test for heat.

3. No, not as hot as HPS or MH. Noticeably. The ballasts I have used do run quite hot. Didn’t use a name brand ballast

4. I’d say 3x3 open space. 4x4 enclosed and reflective. 4x4 if multi-lamp with overlap. That how I’d set it up I’m guessing

5. It worked well for me either way. Depends on the area really.


Personally I’d like to see a AC/DE hood with a gavita 6-750 flex vs a 630 CMH. CMH bud quality is good though. Real good. Matched well against my outdoor

I used to run a 400w in a 2x2 with good air flow, without issue. I'm just getting settled in a 2.5' x 5' with 2 x 315. I tried to stay at nothing less than 50w psf. I guess I'll see how it goes. If I can hit 24oz per run I'll be content.



dank.Frank

positivity said:

I’ve actually flowered more grows with an LED than a CMH. The few CMH grows have given me a better end product flower though. It’s mainly my veg light right now since I’ve been flowering outdoors lately. Nice mix of light quality, heat, and ease of use.

1. Philips 3100K best specs and most reviews. Ushio did well for me, beautiful full spectrum. Hortilux? Maybe, no reviews

2. Yes. Just hand test for heat.

3. No, not as hot as HPS or MH. Noticeably. The ballasts I have used do run quite hot. Didn’t use a name brand ballast

4. I’d say 3x3 open space. 4x4 enclosed and reflective. 4x4 if multi-lamp with overlap. That how I’d set it up I’m guessing

5. It worked well for me either way. Depends on the area really.


Personally I’d like to see a AC/DE hood with a gavita 6-750 flex vs a 630 CMH. CMH bud quality is good though. Real good. Matched well against my outdoor

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Thanks! Very helpful reply, I like the sound of the Philips bulbs from what I've ready so far.

dank.frank said:

I used to run a 400w in a 2x2 with good air flow, without issue. I'm just getting settled in a 2.5' x 5' with 2 x 315. I tried to stay at nothing less than 50w psf. I guess I'll see how it goes. If I can hit 24oz per run I'll be content.



dank.Frank

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Would love an update when done, best of luck!

Does any one have experience with Nanolux Maxpar 3k lamps? I've found a vertical CMH kit which uses this bulb.

Also are the 630w DE bulbs brighter than 2 single 315w units?
If budget was not an option, would you rather 2 315s or 1 630de?

Thanks.

There are many CMH bulb spectrum and PPFD comparison on the first page of the lighting sticky...Post #2 4th picture down for spectrums and post #7 3rd picture down for PPFD comparisons.

I dont usually take the time to spoon feed the people who dont have the patience to read the full first page, it your lucky day.

Ibechillin said:

There are many CMH bulb spectrum and PPFD comparison on the first page of the lighting sticky...Post #2 4th picture down for spectrums and post #7 3rd picture down for PPFD comparisons.

I dont usually take the time to spoon feed the people who dont have the patience to read the full first page, it your lucky day.

Click to expand...

... simply don't answer = PC correct response! Your stickies are good but, just another opinion

Im not here to be PC and make friends, more so scaring away the ignorant.

Switcher56 you haven't started one thread to hit 1000 views or contributed anything useful in your time here, why are you here?

Ibechillin said:

Im not here to be PC and make friends, more so scaring away the ignorant.

Switcher56 you haven't started one thread to hit 1000 views or contributed anything useful in your time here, why are you here?

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I hear you but I believe you like hearing yourself. I don't need a 1K thread. I am here for info. However, I do a pile of research elsewhere and merely come here for clarification as required.. FWIW I am a patient not here to become a breeder, but intend on growing decent bud to look after what ails me, which I have accomplished, and forget the "a picture or it didn't happen". Not my 1st rodeo and definitely not here to impress anybody.

PS: There are numerous threads where I simply don't reply. It's like switching the channel. Try it some time

Switcher56 said:

I hear you but I believe you like hearing yourself.

PS: There are numerous threads where I simply don't reply. It's like switching the channel. Try it some time

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Funny, says the person with nearly triple my posts and 1/3 the amount of time here since account creation. LOL please continue, i havent laughed this hard in a while. I have 1.26 posts per day and you have 7.91, of my total 727 posts i have 767 times rated positive and 4905 rep lol quality over quantity friend.

Im going to smoke, waiting patiently for more of your comedy.

For shame switcher! For absolute shame. You need to fix your posting stats immediately.

Oh my god I - I just can't even... For shame.

You need to up your game, try increasing soy intake. Soy milk, soy burgers and more lecithin.

Ibechillin said:

There are many CMH bulb spectrum and PPFD comparison on the first page of the lighting sticky...Post #2 4th picture down for spectrums and post #7 3rd picture down for PPFD comparisons.

I dont usually take the time to spoon feed the people who dont have the patience to read the full first page, it your lucky day.

Click to expand...

You need to get off your high horse, any one who has used an LED in the last 5 years and has an idea does not care for the science, I've used high end LED with SCROG/SOG, measuring PAR to get a perfect foot print, played with distance from plant etc etc, wasted a year on 2 different high end LEDs before going back to HPS, I do not care for your science, get the idea.

I am simply seeking experience from people who have used the lights and can give feedback, I've seen a youtube video showing spectrum/par testing over majority of the bulbs and the MaxPar does not stack up so well, do I spend the extra and get a Philips bulb or can some one tell me a MaxPar worked fine for them?

Please Ibechillin, don't post in my thread, you're just here to toot your own horn and show poor character.

Cheers all.

I used the Phillips 3100 in my last run and had some issues that I now know were not light related. Current run is cmh and everything is swell.

The only con for cmh in my opinion is the bulb cost, but it lasts a lot longer than hps. Not as long as LED but I'm guessing a whole lot faster to replace a bulb than some diodes. I have the phantom and couldn't be happier with it. I also have a 260 quantum board, that's nice too, I like them equally though. I don't think one is better than the other if looking at equal watts.

Sure seems to me like he was trying to give you the info you're asking for. He just wanted you to read it as it's already written rather than retyping it all for you in a new place.

BakedBandit said:

Sure seems to me like he was trying to give you the info you're asking for. He just wanted you to read it as it's already written rather than retyping it all for you in a new place.

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I wish this was so, his stickies are great and full of good information but I've done my research on the differences, I'm not new to trying new lights and I've been stung before by lights which look good on paper (LEDs)

If some one asked you how your car drove would you keep pointing them to it's specs while making comments about spoon feeding? Or would you just give personal feedback? Not here to get in to pissing contest so would rather leave it at that.

I have alot of free time, happy to demonstrate mine and your history together thebakedroo. It appears you detest reading thus far, so really its for others to see lol.

BakedBandit said:

Sure seems to me like he was trying to give you the info you're asking for. He just wanted you to read it as it's already written rather than retyping it all for you in a new place.

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You are getting a friend request^ lol!

thebakedroo's thread from 2 weeks ago on 12/23:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=358580

thebakedroo said:

Hello every one, so I'm looking for some information on COB lighting, I have a smallish house so I would benefit a lot from cooling costs.

I have a friend using an LED setup with 2 COBs running at 50w per COB, his results have not impressed me so much with the buds being smaller on cuttings I grow under HPS, we live in a humid climate so this has it's benefits, but I would love to see HPS like results without the heat.

I've been looking at doing a DIY myself and I'm wondering what sort of success people are having with higher output (80-100w) COBs compared to HPS.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Lost in a SOG said:

How many plants is he growing under 100 of cobs because that's about enough for one plant.

Lots of super professional growers dumped their hps a while back and havent gone back so what does that tell you?

I used hps for 15 years and now use mostly LED and im not going back to big hot hps rigs.. the wattage i save can go towards more enviro control.. they still make more than enough heat for me indoors. Im not trying to twist your arm this is just my 2

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positivity said:

I'm a long time grower. LED didn't get the quality high enough for me. When you get a certain level it's hard to go backwards.
It's fun trying though..sometimes...for a little while.

Pro growers using led will be second string to good outdoor or hid until the tech improves

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Lost in a SOG said:

Actually i take what i said back. 100w of cob or otherwise is not enough for one plant unless serious topping and training is performed.

40w led per square foot imo is not a bad estimate and its a struggle to fit a plant in a 2 1/2 x 1' space.

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Ibechillin said:

Check out the lighting sticky in my signature, not all led is the same (or bulb for that matter). People try one shitty china led panel or cmh bulb usually and write them off entirely. How many watts of HPS are you trying to replace with COB?

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positivity said:

My current LED light is more advanced than anything on the market and its now a few years since I built it myself. Must not be me your talking about


I'd recommend CMH if heat is a concern but if you have your heart set on LED these blokes seem anxious to help

Click to expand...

thebakedroo said:

Thanks for the replies every one.
He currently grows scrog with roughly 2x2 foot of area.

He was growing with HPS for a good 10+ years and prefers the COBs now, I personally think it's a backward step if quality product is your top priority.

There's nothing wrong with his grows, the buds are just smaller and not quite as frosty, his environment is controlled and he's some one I consider a great grower, so I'm putting it down to the lights.

Like some one else said, people are quick to rule LED out based on 1 experience, I'm trying to keep an open mind even after seeing his results.

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thebakedroo said:

I've tried to find information on the LUX readings from these lights as I don't care for the par "science",

I'll get criticism for my comments on par

Here's an example showing lux/height with the Cree @ 100w

View Image

Thanks all, just trying to understand how this all works.
I would love to see some pictures of a large dense frosty buds grown under COBs if any one has these available?

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Ibechillin said:

READ THE LIGHTING STICKY!

Click to expand...

starke said:

Yep. What he said.

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thebakedroo said:

I'm aware of the science behind spectrums and photosynthesis, thanks though.

To me intensity is still everything, a great spectrum with low penetration is not superior because science says the spectrums better, the old generation LEDs are useless in my eyes.

Now the reason COBs have me interested is the talk around higher LUX, people talk about PAR but when we are in the suns spectrum, LUX is everything imo, there may be colours in a COB which a LUX meter wont register, but even if you double the LUX values on the picture presented, it's still not that great.

Has any one got multiple 80-100w COBs running and a LUX meter?

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EcoNepenthe said:

I switched from HPS to Cree COBs. Quality buds, great yields, less heat, less electricity use. I could go on.
I've a few videos on YT (homegrown365) showing my COBs in production. Seeing is believing.
COBs and QBs are the future. Hope you find all that you need.

Stay safe!!!
Success w/ya grow!!!

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=77103&pictureid=1854527&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

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First off you mention your friend with the 2 50w cobs and his results not impressing you vs HPS, and you dodged answering mine and Lost In A SOG questions of how many watts of HPS you were trying to replace with cob.

Then you mention your grower friend of 10+ years under HPS with 100w of cob over a 2x2 environmentally controlled space currently who "you" consider "a great grower" having small and less frosty buds in "your" opinion. You blame the cob lights and say you "want to keep an open mind even after seeing his results".

You then begin to contradict yourself on keeping an open mind:

"I've tried to find information on the LUX readings from these lights as I don't care for the par "science" "I'll get criticism for my comments on par

Thanks all, just trying to understand how this all works."

I told you to read the lighting sticky in bold after that (so you would learn lux is not appropriate for grow lighting) and starke told you the same.

You responded in ignorant defiance that:

"I'm aware of the science behind spectrums and photosynthesis, thanks though. lux is everything imo"

If you would have read the first page of the lighting sticky you would have learned:

From the lighting sticky thread:

Lumens:

The lumen is a unit of measure of the quantity of visible light emitted by a source, Lumens are weighted according to a model of the human eye’s sensitivity to various wavelengths. This weighting means that light in the green-yellow spectrum will register significantly higher in lumens than red or blue light – the most important colors for photosynthesis in plants. While lumens may reflect how much light humans perceive, they do not adequately account for how much light your plants are actually receiving.

Lux:

Lux is a measurement of how many lumens fall on a 1 square meter surface, when lit by a source 1 meter away. 1 Lux is 1 lumen per square meter. Lux meters can be purchased pretty cheap online, but again – these are measuring lumens, and aren’t very useful for grow lighting.

I never suggested to you that led was better than HPS. I said "not all led is the same (or bulb for that matter). People try one shitty china led panel or cmh bulb usually and write them off entirely" in reference to spectrum and intensity variation, but a few others in your thread did suggest to you led was superior.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In this thread asking about CMH and issacks 1000w hps vs 630cmh thread (which is linked to and discussed on page one of the lighting science thread, hell my posts are throughout that thread start to end as i knew issack from the year before...)

I responded:

Ibechillin said:

Its a new year, maybe youll read it this time...

Click to expand...

implying the information you are looking for you should have already found 2 weeks ago on the first page when i told you to read it twice, as well as starke.

You responded:

thebakedroo said:

The information you've provided is useful but it's nothing new to me, I've used LEDs with "superior" spectrums before, claims of 300w beating 600w and the results are not even close, the science is useless when a light can't penetrate a canopy.

I'm after real world feedback not science, thanks.

Click to expand...

You said "The information you've provided is useful but it's nothing new to me" when clearly you have not a clue in the slightest. One of the largest problems in grow lighting is people try replacing a high wattage fixture with a 40% lower wattage fixture instead of comparing equal wattage and complain that one run was inferior.

Next You asked:

thebakedroo said:

Does any one have experience with Nanolux Maxpar 3k lamps? I've found a vertical CMH kit which uses this bulb.

Click to expand...

I responded to your question about the maxpar 315 cmh bulb with reference to a 3rd party spectral graph and PPFD readings.

Ibechillin said:

There are many CMH bulb spectrum and PPFD comparison on the first page of the lighting sticky...Post #2 4th picture down for spectrums and post #7 3rd picture down for PPFD comparisons.

I dont usually take the time to spoon feed the people who dont have the patience to read the full first page, it your lucky day.

Click to expand...

Ending my post and reiterating that you should already have this information if you had read the lighting thread after being reminded by me 3 times already in similar scenarios...

Ibechillin said:

Im not here to be PC and make friends, more so scaring away the ignorant.

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^this obviously struck a nerve in you thebakedroo which it should have because it was directed at you specifically, and to my surprise you actually read and undertood it, congratulations 1 out of 4!

2 weeks ago you said:

thebakedroo said:

"people are quick to rule LED out based on 1 experience, I'm trying to keep an open mind even after seeing his results."

Click to expand...

Talking about your in your uneducated opinion "great grower friends" results and never any mention at all of your own experiences.

today:

thebakedroo said:

I've used high end LED with SCROG/SOG, measuring PAR to get a perfect foot print, played with distance from plant etc etc, wasted a year on 2 different high end LEDs before going back to HPS, I do not care for your science, get the idea.

Click to expand...

2 weeks have gone by and now suddenly you have a year of grow experience under in your uneducated opinion again "2 different high end LEDs before going back to HPS" and again you are dodgey and dont list the LED fixtures used or the HPS bulb being used or wattages of anything.

It seems to me thebakedroo you are full of ignorance, bullshit and self contradiction.

I wasn't going to get into this thread but then I had to come along

Welcome to thebakedroo!
Answers to your questions I'll try. Not sure why these others want you to read their threads; maybe so they can brag about read counts of copy and pasted waste of time posts.

1. Phillips CMH 3100k will give most weight, 4000k bulbs and up less weight higher quality.
2. I run CMH at 22" though only for veg. You can easily flower in the 20-30" range.
3. Not as hot as 400w it's as hot as 315 watts. Seriously 315w of heat; 85 watts less heat at bulb and ballast.
4. 2.5x2.5 is for one 315w bulb. It's 315w it's not for a 3x3, 4x4 or a 5x5. These 315w CMH will not compare to a 600w HPS properly ran.
5. Vertical uncovered reflector is what you'll want

heatherlonglee said:

I wasn't going to get into this thread but then I had to come along

Welcome to thebakedroo!
Answers to your questions I'll try. Not sure why these others want you to read their threads; maybe so they can brag about read counts of copy and pasted waste of time posts.

1. Phillips CMH 3100k will give most weight, 4000k bulbs and up less weight higher quality.
2. I run CMH at 22" though only for veg. You can easily flower in the 20-30" range.
3. Not as hot as 400w it's as hot as 315 watts. Seriously 315w of heat; 85 watts less heat at bulb and ballast.
4. 2.5x2.5 is for one 315w bulb. It's 315w it's not for a 3x3, 4x4 or a 5x5. These 315w CMH will not compare to a 600w HPS properly ran.
5. Vertical uncovered reflector is what you'll want

Click to expand...

Thanks for that, pretty well goes with what my research is saying.

As for that monster post from Ibechillin, my questions around COB were for COB, not CMH, I've used units built up of red/blue 3w LEDs and was not impressed, I felt they lacked depth, the idea of a 100w COB sounds appealing to me as it may solve the issues I had with the 3w models, my friends system is 50w COBs not 100w which I was asking about, his setup is also too little light for 2x2 in my opinion which is why once again I was looking for feed back or pictures from people with experience, I struggle to find good LED bud shots online, at least CMH brings the pictures.

Any way not sure why it's a big deal, provide your info but don't have a sad if it's not the end all to a thread.

So keeping it on topic, I've bought a 315w Nanolux vertical system and have it running, looks quite good running the light meter under it but I'm not sure if I want to stretch more than 2.5x2.5 with a single lamp, but so far I'm impressed, it's output seems better than a 400w HPS.