Heavy metal uptake and smoke question...

There's a thread somewhere talking about Cannabis loving to uptake heavy metals and other bad things.

Does anyone know WHERE those bad things go? Into the volatiles? Or into the "structure"? I gues I'm wondering...should I smoke or vape? I like the high from smoking better...vaping is a "thinner" high...not as much "depth".

so, do the heavy metals, the crap, stay in the ash? Or am I sucking that crap in from the smoke? And if it's in the smoke...it probably doesn't matter how we smoke.

So...any experts?

Heavy metals are taken up by the plant permanently and you will probably get them on you by handling the plant or smoking. Vaping probably helps but stay away from heavy metals, they make you retarded (literally.)

I'll throw the first cat among the pigeons.

C. Zaccone, R. Di Caterina, T. Rotunno, M. Quinto, 2010.
Effect of conventional and organic fertilizers on heavy metal (Cd, Cr, Cu, Ni, Pb, Zn) content in semolina samples.
Soil & Tillage Research 107: 97-105.

"Although significantly higher heavy metal input to soil was provided by adding the organic fertilizer, semolina samples obtained from the cultivars grown in Conventional Farming Systems (CFS) were richer in Cd (82 mg kg-1 vs. 18 mg kg-1), Cr (182 mg kg-1 vs. 50 mg kg-1), and Cu (6.6 mg kg-1 vs. 5.8 mg kg-1), thus suggesting a potential for the organic system to reduce the amount of these elements in the soil solution, to limit their availability and uptake by plants, and to influence their translocation processes to grains."

"In general, data seem to suggest a potential for the organic system to more effectively retain Cd, Cr, and Cu on the soil solid phase, perhaps on organic sorption sites. Consequently, the complexation of these metals by the humified fraction of the OM would reduce their amount in the soil solution, limit plant availability and uptake, and influence the processes responsible for translocation of of these elements to grains. Finally, Pb and Ni, although more abundant in the soil samples from CFS, were found at highest concentrations in semolina samples from OFS. Thus, it is possible to hypothesize that these two elements are preferentially bound to low molecular weight organic molecules (e.g., fulvic acids) and translocated to grains."

"The results from this study clearly underlined that the organic production of agricultural products could not always allow reducing heavy metal concentrations in semolina samples when compared to conventional farming (e.g., Ni, Pb, Zn). At the same time, the data obtained enable to identify possible varietal differences in heavy metal translocation to grains, and consequently to semolina, thus providing some indication about the opportunity of encouraging/discouraging some cultivars in relation to the adopted farming system (organic vs. conventional) and to the kind of metals to be preferentially accumulated (e.g., functional food) or depleted."

good post Avenger

the article only refers to leaf and seed and compares the heavy metal contents in each. I read the "Methods & Materials" section, I'm led to believe that the "leaf" also refers to the buds.

the info below is from the "reefer madness" link above

Table 1: The mean values and 95 percent confidence Ug/g dry weight).

These Samples Cannabis leaf Cannabis Seed
As 13.60±0.048 7.48±0.02
Cd 4.40±0.03 2.40±0.02
Cr 17.41±0.25 15.2±0.25
Fe 24±0.3 7.80±0.03
Ni 10.40±0.03 6.80±0.02
Pb 1.58±0.02 0.420±0.003
Hg 19±0.3 6.16±0.03
Mn 28±0.2 102.5 ±0.32

Acceptable levels of each (according to consumption in food)

As
For most people, food is the largest source of arsenic exposure (about 25 to 50 micrograms per day [µg/d]), with lower amounts coming from drinking water and air. Among foods, some of the highest levels are found in fish and shelfish; however, this arsenic exists primarily as organic compounds, which are essentially nontoxic. (source; http://www.epa.gov/ttnatw01/hlthef/arsenic.html#ref1)

Cd
EPA's acceptable amount contained in food consumed per day is 1 ug. (source: http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/cadmium/cdstandards_regulations.html)

Cr
for Cr III, 50 to 200 ug per day (source: http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/chromium/docs/chromium.pdf)

Fe
?????

Ni
?????

Pb
10 ug/dL in the bloodstream (source: http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/lead/pb_standards2.html)

Hg
1 ppm from the FDA, I couldn't find an upper limit weight amount in food

Mn
1 to 5 mg/day from epa (source: http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/manganes.html)

I tried to find the ceiling limit for each heavy metal allowable in food. Most websites also had a ceiling limit for air inhalation in ppms, however I think that would be useless in relation the information in the chart. I would think someone would need to do a study on how much of each heavy metal actually vaporizes (real exposure to lungs) using different temperatures in order to accurately use the ceiling limit ppm levels for air inhalation.

Nice work.

The vaporising of metals will happen at their boiling points.

1 question for you botanists {:
Does really cannabis like rust ?
I have heard many times that rust is good for the plants.
Some friends have used it and got good results I think

Sam the Caveman said:

I would think someone would need to do a study on how much of each heavy metal actually vaporizes (real exposure to lungs) using different temperatures in order to accurately use the ceiling limit ppm levels for air inhalation.

Click to expand...

That's what I wanted to know...Are heavy metals used in the volatile compounds released when smoking/vaping.

If it really doesn't take up much more than an "organic" fertilizer...then no worries really. I'm aware that "nasties" are all around, we eat/breathe nasties like Pb all day long.

MrFista said:

Nice work.

The vaporising of metals will happen at their boiling points.

Click to expand...

Agreed...but depending on where the plant uses them...is it carried off in the smoke/vapor while attached to something else? And, being attached...will it become unattached in the lungs? Hmmm...could a butane lighter in a "blast furnace" environment...be enough to vaporize some of the lower melting point heavy metals? Pb melts at 621F. Could that environment lead to it's being disasociated from organic molecules?

g0vnaa said:

1 question for you botanists {:
Does really cannabis like rust ?
I have heard many times that rust is good for the plants.
Some friends have used it and got good results I think

Click to expand...

If you're lacking Fe (iron) it is. It's also got O2 but I'm not sure the plant/herd can break that bond...anyone? I've heard stories of people throwing a few rusty iron nails into the garden.

Iron is present in nearly all soils but there are exceptions where it is aluminium instead (normally both). Rust will work it is a long term solution though I doubt nails would do anything much over 1 grow. Nails are useful in aquaponics if the pH is slightly acidic. This might correlate to soil too.

Good point about the location of the metal molecules. Is it in the ash, or in the weed. A test might entail knowing the metal contents of a joint, smoking it, then testing the ash. Smoking you might not need the boiling point metals might be carried on the smoke particles.

Whatever isn't in the ash will be for the most part in your lungs.

Vaping might leave it all in the weed.

I began a thread in the nute forum about this problem. Here is the link:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=196902

I believe that the majority of the heavy metals accumulate in the roots and leaves. To what degree they translocate to the buds and volatiles during flowering is uncertain. However, it seems quite likely that one's ingestion of heavy metals is going to be reduced by vaporizing. Ideally, you would obviate the problem by consuming only marijuana grown in a nutrient/medium combination that contained no measurable heavy metal content.

This doesn't address the question specifically, but it does offer some insight to the processes of plant uptake of metals.

"The Elements of Plant Micronutrients," by Sabeeha S. Merchant
http://www.plantphysiol.org/cgi/content/full/154/2/512

Here are some studies I uploaded to BerndV's thread:

1. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4138828&postcount=76

"Cannabis sativa L. growing on heavy metal contaminated soil: growth, cadmium uptake and photosynthesis"
P. LINGER, A. OSTWALD and J. HAENSLER
BIOLOGIA PLANTARUM 49 (4): 567-576, 2005
(re: cadmium)


"Monitoring of heavy metals and selected micronutrients in hempseeds from North-western Turkey"
Kursat Korkmaz, S. Metin Kara, Faruk Ozkutlu and Volkan Gul
African Journal of Agricultural Research Vol. 5(6), pp. 463-467, 18 March, 2010
(human toxicity issues are discussed from eating hemp seed, etc., I thought that might offer some insights you seem to be asking about)

2. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4191492&postcount=79

"Effect of soil contamination on some heavy metals content of Cannabis sativa"
M.A. Khan, A. Wajid, S. Noor, F.K. Khattak, S. Akhter and I.U. Rahman
J. Chem. Soc. Pak., vol. 30, no. 6 (2008)


@ Avenger:

Nice find, I have not seed that study before.

It appears copper ends up in the upper leaf surfaces and trichomes,
I do not have access to journals at home so I'll post this article when I make it up to the university.

Euphytica
Volume 140, Numbers 1-2, 33-38, DOI: 10.1007/s10681-004-4752-0



With the aim to examine its potential as a renewable resource to decontaminate polluted soils, electron microscopy combined with X-ray microanalysis was used to investigate the localization of copper in Cannabis sativa grown in hydroponic copper-rich culture. Cu was found to accumulate preferentially in the upper leaf epidermal cells; it was also detected in spiculae and in abaxial trichomes too. Primary bast fibres seem to be not involved in copper accumulation.

Anyone with access please post up the details.
HM

Have you ever try to put fresh unflushed buds in the microwave.

It will start sparkling all over... Weird ^^

Have any of you, or is there info buried in those studies which some seem acquainted with, looked at the relation of medium pH and metal uptake?

Since Mr. Fista mentioned this...

Effect of conventional and organic fertilizers on heavy metal (Cd, Cr, Cu, Ni, Pb, Zn) content in semolina samples.

Click to expand...

...which is not about cannabis I've talked with someone in agricultural consulting/product development who's said that one of the things you see in Alzheimer's patients/victims is an imbalance of iron/aluminum to magnesium/calcium in brain tissue which looks very similar to the ratios found in conventionally grown crops (wheat/corn). Once medium pH drops below a certain point iron/aluminum uptake jumps.

So do any of those studies take medium pH into consideration?

Smoking as little as 100
gms (= 3.53 oz) of marijuana per week may lead
to more mercury being taken into the
body than the prescribed "provisional
tolerable weekly intake."

Click to expand...

https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=108131&d=1300667331

That's a half ounce of weed per day.

bump for the best thread on ICmag! what important info!