Pure Blend Pro in straight coco?

anyone have experience with this? I have like a keg of Pure Blend Pro soil formula I want to use up. Can I transplant my clones from small containers of coco mix into just coco and feed PBP? I heard that you need humic acid to make it work but I like using Liquid Karma anyway. I would be feeding well water, PBP, Liquid Karma and some molasses (for cal/mag). Any experiences and recipes? Do I need to pH this?

Works just fine, but don't try it without the cal/mag or you'll run into trouble. 8-10 ml/gal.

cap full(about 7.5ml) to a gallon and one glug of molasses into 5gal easy breezy beautiful. Lk in first 3wks of bloom and floralicious + after that...you may not get the hugest yield but it'll be super dank. I don't ph but I guess it couldnt hurt. this is a lighter feed more for og's etc.

Check out Crazy Composer's crazy thread.

Oops forgot to mention also... will be doing one gallon grow bags, bottom feeding by filling trays. For clones of course, but ALSO from seed. Is this crazy? or will the one gallon be enough if I water enough?

PBP in coco is being done on a regular basis.
My recipe is 10ml/gal PBP grow or soil bloom or a blend of the two, + 3ml/gal of Cal/Mg. I add to this recipe, but the above mentioned can be used from rooted clones 'til flush. I think adding some sort of grow nutrient up 'til the first 30ish days of flowering may be necessary. I don't know, I haven't used the PBPB Soil for an entire grow.
I do not ever ph my nutrients as I have a biologically active reservoir and medium.
Wish I had a keg of PBPB Soil!

smoking on some ogchem....

straight pbp in coco, fucking delicious!!!!!

people vary a lot in their opinion on Cal/Mag in coco. Crazy Composer doesn't use any as far as I know. Just grow then bloom soil with liquid karma and occasional blasts of silica. He uses tap water, which I think is the secret. In RO, adding CalMag+ makes sense, but I have well water which is usually very hard, so I shouldn't have to add CalMag... right? Could molasses substitute, since it does have both calcium and magnesium in it?

transitional feeding is definitely a good idea, I taper off of the pbp grow through the first 3-4 weeks of flower with wk 1 being all grow and ending up at about 4:1----bloom:grow.

i use dechlorinated tap but have used bubbled unfiltered tap with good results in the past. one thing about pbp soil formula is it settles in a rez and imho i think that you're better off mixing your daily portion of water and then use it up...what doesnt get used here in the same day gets flushed down the drain.

fwiw-

about a year and half ago i figured out a way to mimic the head/rezipe w/ pbp...i basically just spent way too much time on the canna stat nute calculator and plugged in all the ppm's til everything matched up(well close enough anyways) I came up with a 5ml pbp GROW and 15ml pbp Bloom regimen(ran along the same schedule time wise as the 6/9) that i ran side by side with gh 6/9 and achieved nearly identical results with the pbp flowers being just a little bit tastier.

1gal grow bags are fine just dont veg em too big, especially if you anticipate a lot of stretch

Yeah forgot to add, that 8-10 ml of calmag is with RO water, but even in the past using promix and tap water I couldn't imagine not using calmag at bare minimum 3-4 ml/gal when feeding. What works in one persons garden may not be the same thing that works in another persons garden but that's the same experience that I and everyone I know that uses PBP has had...

All I know is PBP grows the tastiest bud hands down, dial it in and you will like it. Definitely listen to whadeezlrg about the transitional feeding, if you don't do it you will get early N fade I have no doubt.

PS: For bloom boosters use big bud, overdrive, and carboload. Makes up 100% for any sort of loss in yield/density that may come with PBP, and you still retain that awesome flavor. Can't recommend those products enough...

edit: forgot to add, PBP is pretty hot and will drop your pH a whole lot, grab some silicas and use that as pH up Keep it around 5.8-6.0 and your golden.

It has been my experience that every 1ml of Cal-Mag Plus from Botanicare into 1 gallon of water add a 0.1ec increase on my Hanna meter. 8ml of Cal-Mag Plus is entirely too much IMO, even for RO filtered water. Personally, I wouldn't go over 5ml per gallon.

As listed at 2% Nitrogen, 3% Calcium, and 1.5% Magnesium, 1ml per gallon should only net about 20ppm although most meters will register closer to 50ppm (or more than double). There are a lot of issues with advertised concentrations and measurement equipment but you can pretty much bank on there being more in the bottle than is listed. In my own garden 5ml/gallon is about the upper limit, and I do that more for the Chelated Iron than the Calcium or the Magnesium. Most people forget all about Iron (one of those all important cations) in coco and it is most definitely required in one form or another.

Something I have been using in place of Cal-Mag products are Micro supplements, like from General Hydroponics, Advanced Nutrients, or Cutting Edge Solutions. These products, from the 3-parter Grow/Micro/Bloom systems, generally contain more Nitrogen, Calcium, and Magnesium (although Mg not so much in a few cases) and all for the same price. I think that CES Micro contains something like 3x the elements of Botanicare Cal-Mag Plus, plus an extra iron chelate and quite a bit of more "random" micro elements. That's quite a bit more bang for the same price as the hyped stuff.

In my experience with uncharged coco and RO water if you go under 5ml/gal with the cal/mag you will get deficiencies, every single time, especially with chems and diesels. 8ml/gal is the sweet spot for coco, and with certain strains that are cal/mag whores I've seen people go well over that and the plants love it. 3-5ml/gal is the sweet spot for soilless mediums such as promix.

VADO said:

In my experience with uncharged coco and RO water if you go under 5ml/gal with the cal/mag you will get deficiencies, every single time, especially with chems and diesels. 8ml/gal is the sweet spot for coco, and with certain strains that are cal/mag whores I've seen people go well over that and the plants love it. 3-5ml/gal is the sweet spot for soilless mediums such as promix.

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I find this to be misleading.

You start with "In my experience" but switch to "if you go under..." It's a possession thing. I regularly run 2ml/gallon without issue.

It is also misleading because different Macro Nutrient systems will contain varying amounts of Calcium and Magnesium. CNS17 Coco/Soil Grow has a different amount than say Sensi Grow A+B or Canna Coco A+B. Varying amounts of Calcium and Magnesium is a given because not everyone is using the same primary system.

It is also misleading because 8ml/gallon to fresh, uncharged, coco during the vegetative cycle is not a big deal. The coco is building a bank of cations, namely calcium, during this period of time when the plant is in the greatest need for calcium. This creates a two-fold effect where both the plant and the medium have their needs for Ca. Once the cation bank is filled, typically coinciding with the transition to flowering, running excessive levels of calcium will only interfere with the uptake of other cations like Potassium and Magnesium as well as having a negative impact on the uptake of phosphorus. In addition to the cation bank being overly full of Calcium this can be worse when the plant is transitioning to a different stage of growth where it requires less calcium and more of the other cations.

To say that start to finish, 8ml/gallon, is what everyone needs or they will get deficiencies... I dunno... I'm not buying it because I know I don't need it.

I think everyone should do themselves a favor and spend the time to calculate their ppm levels and pay attention to the plants. I find that although more calcium is required during the conditioning stage for the coco, and for the Vegetative period of the plant, that these needs can change dramatically once the coco is conditioned and the plant is in Flowering. 2ml per gallon of Cal-Mag Plus has usually been enough for the later stages of growth in my own garden.

That being said, every garden is different. Different Phenotypes, different methods, different water sources... etc. Play it smart and do some calculations.

1ml of 1% =~2.654ppm
or
Element%x10,000=ppm in the bottle
ppm x ml of additive used / total ml of final solution = Estimated ppm

"P" is actually only 43% Phosphorus
"K" is actually only 84% Potassium
The rest is weight from Oxide.
Nitrogen, Calcium and Magnesium are represented accurately.

If you can run the numbers on your primary nutrient at a given ml/gallon then you'll have about as good an idea of what is in your solution as you can without gas spectrometry. With the macro system calculated you can then anticipate how much Calcium and Magnesium you should need to get your ppm levels of those elements to a proper level and in a proper ratio. Inevitably there will be more in the bottle than is listed so it is also important to take EC measurements and to record the variance between tested and predicted. If you're smart and you keep track of this data in a journal then it will help you build a general concept of how much of each element you are providing. Over time this data will help any grower better fine tune and dial in their regiment.

Yes, it could be 8 to 10ml. It could be 2 to 3ml. It could be none. There are a lot of factors to consider and I think the best course of action is to use your own brain for your own garden. Most growers sell themselves short with the kiss method. I say: keep it smart, stupid.

First of all, please stop with the splitting of hairs on general advice. I didn't say start to finish, although I wouldn't generally go lower than 5ml/gal in flower.

Second, If 2ml/gal works for coco in your garden, I'm glad for you, congrats. It takes two hands for me to count out all the growers I know in real life who use or have used the pure blend pro line (one exclusively for 5-6 years now, myself exclusively for about 4 years) - none of them ever go that low with the calmag in coco when using PBP, ever, period. Even in flower. My advice reflects this, nothing more and nothing less. I get fantastic results with how I feed, cal/mag deficiencies when feeding as you are suggesting. As I stated previously, there are many means to an end with growing, and I am happy for you if you are able to use calmag at such a low dose and do well, but that is my experience. I give advice as such.

Snow Crash said:

It is also misleading because different Macro Nutrient systems will contain varying amounts of Calcium and Magnesium.

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We are talking about PBP here

To clarify for the thread starter... Based on my experience yes you should used cal/mag, and yes you should pH the nutrient mix.

No one seems to have chimed in about molasses. Does it work as a calmag supplement? If so how much? Also as stated I am using well water, anyone have experience with PBP and well water? I am going to test my well water ppms, then add calmag up to the proper ppm that it should be before adding in Bloom. ml/gallon is not that useful if we all have different water.S o um... what ppm calmag do I want?

Frankly man, you are going to have to find out how hard your water is before we can help you there.

As far as the molasses goes, can't help you there either, no experience with the stuff as I use carboload.

i use molasses w/ pbp. I don't use cal-mag. I personally have not seen any deficiencies running a capful of pbp to a gallon and a glug(about a tblsp) of molasses into 5gal with nothing but og's in flower that are notorious for their appetite for cal-mag

Yeah I use alot of Cal Nag then. Im in coco using PBP and I use about 10ml per gallon with RO water.

FreedomFightr said:

Yeah I use alot of Cal Nag then. Im in coco using PBP and I use about 10ml per gallon with RO water.

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Out of curiosity, do you use molasses? I don't... Might be why we are all saying different things...

No one seems to have chimed in about molasses. Does it work as a calmag supplement?

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little OT but I used to think I could use molasses as a cal/mag/iron supplement. I looked at the numbers on the back of the bottle and saw high percentages of cal and such. Then I realized that these percentages are based on the usda's recommended daily allowance (RDA), and not total volume of the elements. 3% calcium on a bottle of molasses means 3% of the recommended daily allowance not 3% volume by weight....I have a paper around here some where, where I did all the math....I don't remember exactly but it seemed like 10ml of calmag+ is equal to about 100ml of molasses...well as far as calcuim by weight goes.

I'm not sure of all the differences in types of calcium contained...it might be more readily available in calmag then it is in molasses.....I dunno I'm just pointing out the RDA thing....as soon as I realized that I relied on molasses only as a carbo boost. I use calmag to resolve deficiencies now with much better results.