Register ICMag Forum Menu Features Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
You are viewing our:
in:
Forums > Marijuana Growing > Cannabis Botany and Advanced Growing Science > The Lounge : Growers Round Table Discussion Thread

Thread Title Search
Post Reply
The Lounge : Growers Round Table Discussion Thread Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-20-2018, 05:26 AM #551
moose eater
Senior Member

moose eater's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Off a dead-end dirt road, near a river, out of town, in the hills and trees
Posts: 2,242
moose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivor
Still need to get unpacked to gather my wits, if I can find them.

The mix was being pursued as a primarily-water-only with some amount of a simple top-dressing to be done a couple times throughout the process.

Already using intermittent fulvic (Ful-Power) @ 10-20 ml/gallon of untreated well water (which still needs a thorough re-test, as the last well water test we did was ~20 years ago), about every other or third watering up until recently.

There's a fair bit of gypsum in there already, but going to boost the gypsum a bit more, as stated.

Noted that my gypsum states it has sulfates in it, and was wondering if this might be a source for/of the higher sulfur count?

There's already a fair bit of steamed bone meal in there, which is one of the slower-to-release sources of P in my experience, thus the differences between the water extraction test and the Mehlich III acid extraction.

I -do- have some soft rock phosphate here, but it and I aren't formally acquainted at this time; just had it on hand at one point when I was procuring things for a top-dressing that I never made.

I'll post the whole current mix in a lil' bit, to clear up any confusion.

This mix hasn't been brought to a finished harvest yet; still in reviewing and revamping phase, while pushing ahead with what needed planted. "The show must go on."

Taking what the report states, assuming it's MY sample they're looking at, and using that data (between the 2 tests) to decide what to add as balancing amendments to 'bring it home' to where it belongs/needs to be..

A previous, distantly related mix produced the Ghost Train Haze #1 pic that can be seen, and linked to for larger view, at my profile. Feel free to visit there.

The lab analysis posted there is from the mix that preceded this one, but came after the one that produced the GTH#1 pic. This mix was an adjusted effort, with the help of another member here, at getting closer to rock-n-roll.

Some of the numbers in the current analyses were screwy enough that (as stated earlier) I wondered if there had been a mix-up, a spill resulting in sharing of samples, or ?????????

For the H2O extraction test to state I had all of 1.9 ppm in P after the thing had sat, moist, for about a week or so, with numerous source of P in it, had me unnerved a bit. 'Irritated' might even be the word I was looking for.

But like said, the plants don't look haggard, the former mothers in bloom include a couple phenos of Goji OG, a 20-yr.-old reliable Sensi Seeds California Indica, Rare Dankness' GTH#1, Bomb Seeds' Widow Bomb, & Green House's Super Lemon Haze, and for the majority of them, the distances between bud sites, color, vigor, bud development (@ week 2.5), etc. are relatively acceptable; better with some than others, and the only one showing any notable stretch is the SLH, which is an easy keeper where N is concerned. The GTH#1 has its expected weak-kneed branches, but we keep her around for her productivity, class, and quality of stone.

As far as current pics, that would take some effort; I'm on 56k dial-up, which barely communicates with the modern world. The pics you can see in my profile were done by setting the computer on task, and going on to do chores, eat dinner, etc., to come back and find the task completed. No brief exercise in that regard.
moose eater is offline Quote


Old 08-20-2018, 05:31 AM #552
moose eater
Senior Member

moose eater's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Off a dead-end dirt road, near a river, out of town, in the hills and trees
Posts: 2,242
moose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivor
Jidoka, what is 'MAP'? Thanks in advance.

Mix list to follow soon.
moose eater is offline Quote


Old 08-20-2018, 05:34 AM #553
Ibechillin
Member

Ibechillin's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Tacoma, Washington 47n
Posts: 448
Ibechillin is just really niceIbechillin is just really niceIbechillin is just really niceIbechillin is just really niceIbechillin is just really niceIbechillin is just really niceIbechillin is just really niceIbechillin is just really niceIbechillin is just really niceIbechillin is just really niceIbechillin is just really nice
MAP = monoammonium phosphate

Low N and high P
Ibechillin is offline Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 08-20-2018, 05:56 AM #554
moose eater
Senior Member

moose eater's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Off a dead-end dirt road, near a river, out of town, in the hills and trees
Posts: 2,242
moose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivor
Current mix in question (Makes ~16.4 to 16.5 gallons of media):

10 cups Fishy Peat (local Alaska Peat w/Fish & Kelp product)

30 Cups Fox Farms Ocean Forest

30 Cups (High Quallity) Earth Worm Castings; 50:50 between Roots Organic and Wonder Worm (*See lab analyses for both products at my profile)

25 Cups perlite

15 Cups Vermiculite

25 Cups Pumice


20 Cups Rice Hulls

~8 Cups coarse Zeolite (~3/8" average in size)

105 Cups BX Pro-Mix

-----------------------------------

1-1/2 Cup Steamed Bone Meal 3-15-0 w/ 26% calcium

1 Cup 0-7-0 Bat Guano

1/3 Cup 0-11-0 Seabird Guano

1/3 Cup 3-10-1 DTE High P Bat Guano

1/3 Cup High P Indonesian Bat Guano @ 0.5-13-0.2

2 TBSP Alaska White Fish Bone Meal @ 6-10-0 w/ 20% calcium; no longer available, so making a mix of 2 other fish bone meal products that combined, come close to the original.

4 TBSP Blood Meal 11-0-0

2 TBSP DTE Alfalfa Meal

10 TBSP DTE high N Bat guano 9-3-1

11 TBSP DTE (or similar) Kelp Meal

2 TBSP Jersey Green Sand

7 TBSP Dolomite Lime

14 TBSP granular gypsum

7 TBSP garden lime @ 96% calcium and 1.5% Magnesium

12 TBSP DTE Oyster Shell Flour

1 TBSP Azomite

1.5 Cups Triple Fermented Bokashi Bran

2 Cups Alaska Humus

1 TBSP various Mycorrhizae (spelling?)

.7 (i.e. 7/10) grams Borax

10 grams Manganese Sulfate

1.6 grams Copper Sulfate

7 grams Zinc Sulfate

------------------------------------------

Hydrated with 2.75 gallons untreated well water with the following added to each gallon:


2 Drops Vitamin B Super Thrive

2 ml Pro-Tekt (though there's a fair amount of silica in the rice hulls)

2 ml Liquid Karma

6 ml Bio-Ag Ful-Power

.5 grams to 1 gram Mycostop -OR- 10 to 20 grams Prestop as prophylactic fungicide(s)

~.13 oz of Gnatrol WDG for killing any gnat larvae early in the game.

--------------------------------

On transplanting, a smattering of Great White is dusted at the base of the hole where the root ball will go.

------------------------------------

Yes, it's convoluted, but variety had always been the theme here in putting together mixes. Not just to afford a varied buffet to the plants, but to act preemptively on the notion that many organic amendments are not always as stated on the label, and over the years I've seen organic amendments change markedly, so by varying them, the chance that ONE amendment might slide this way or that was pretty good, but the chance that 2 or 3 of similar sort would simultaneously slide in quality or content was less likely.

Yes, I'm a bit eccentric, and rarely try to hide it anymore. ;^>)

Thanks in advance for your reviews and input!!
moose eater is offline Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 08-20-2018, 06:34 AM #555
slownickel
IC Mag Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,209
slownickel is a splendid one to beholdslownickel is a splendid one to beholdslownickel is a splendid one to beholdslownickel is a splendid one to beholdslownickel is a splendid one to beholdslownickel is a splendid one to beholdslownickel is a splendid one to beholdslownickel is a splendid one to beholdslownickel is a splendid one to beholdslownickel is a splendid one to beholdslownickel is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by moose eater View Post
Still need to get unpacked to gather my wits, if I can find them.

The mix was being pursued as a primarily-water-only with some amount of a simple top-dressing to be done a couple times throughout the process. [/i]
You have more sodium than potassium. Won't be pretty.
__________________
OH IF A MAN TRIED
TO TAKE HIS TIME ON EARTH
AND PROVE WHAT A MAN IS WORTH
I WONDER WHAT WOULD HAPPEN
TO THIS WORLD

-Harry Forster Chapins' Tombstone
slownickel is offline Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 08-20-2018, 06:40 AM #556
moose eater
Senior Member

moose eater's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Off a dead-end dirt road, near a river, out of town, in the hills and trees
Posts: 2,242
moose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivor
As stated, the current (former) mothers in bloom are looking pretty good at the moment.

Thus the question as to accuracy of the test.

Is there anything in the mix written above that stands out to you as being heavy in Na?

Can the increase in gypsum drive down/out the Na?

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slownickel View Post
You have more sodium than potassium. Won't be pretty.
moose eater is offline Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 08-20-2018, 07:49 AM #557
moose eater
Senior Member

moose eater's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Off a dead-end dirt road, near a river, out of town, in the hills and trees
Posts: 2,242
moose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivor
Another angle on the question posed.

That I know of, the most common source of salinity/sodium in this mix is Kelp Meal. There's less than 3/4 cup of kelp meal in the mix, directly, with unknown amounts in the small amount of Fishy Peat.

Logically, the fish meal can incorporate salt, as can the oyster shell flour, seabird guano, etc.. All of that is guess-work, however, in terms of identifying the culprit(s).

I doubt the scant amount of kelp meal is responsible for the high Na readings.

I can omit the Fishy Peat altogether, make up for the amount of Fishy Peat with more Pro Mix, and review other components for salinity, but I'm at a loss of ideas in that regard otherwise.

Looking at the amount of fairly stout P sources already in the mix, the P count has me confused. Again, I'm thinking a second sampling to the lab, or even a different lab might be in order, though that pushes me back by a 2-week period, minimum, not counting drying time for the sample(s).

The quickest address for now for the lower P and high salt content appears to be the gypsum increase, perhaps of a cup or cup and a half, maybe 2, and either the MAP (unfamiliar with this, and would need to locate it), or something closer to a product familiar to me, such as increasing the bat guano.

The only indicator in the plants' appearances currently in bloom that would have me question this, is the leaves are not as large as they might be if really happy, but they're otherwise going well overall.

Anyone see something I'm missing in the list of amendments that stands out as a salt culprit other than kelp meal, and the other lesser suspects referenced?
moose eater is offline Quote


Old 08-20-2018, 01:33 PM #558
jackspratt61
Member

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 67
jackspratt61 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jidoka View Post
If those cec and om numbers are right it won’t rinse

Gotta use gypsum to drive down Na and raise Ca. That is why I asked about organic...my step 2 would be MAP along with 5% fulvic. Then the micros
At 1.8 ec and high N with high sodium, "burn" will be a concern.

Definitely needs to be rinsed but will not be easy if reported cec and om are true.

I have rinsed these by creating a slurry and adding proper amounts of gypsum. 1meq pushes 1 meq.

Side note: for those needing more Ca without ph rise...I have been using a product labeled Encap. 40% calcium coated with polymer that doesn't allow large ph swings. Have used as much as 650grams per ft3 (experimental only)... ph shift negligible...seems a good tool so far!
jackspratt61 is offline Quote


Old 08-20-2018, 04:29 PM #559
jidoka
Senior Member

Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,539
jidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to alljidoka is a name known to all
Na has a higher salt index than Ca. Trading those 2 will lower the EC. Definitely have to leach it out
__________________
The salt shaker
jidoka is online now Quote


Old 08-20-2018, 07:38 PM #560
moose eater
Senior Member

moose eater's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Off a dead-end dirt road, near a river, out of town, in the hills and trees
Posts: 2,242
moose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivormoose eater is a survivor
In my reading on the web last night, I found 2 relevant areas of discussion; the first involved lowering Na via gypsum (which I happen to have a 50-lb. bag of on hand).

The other involved zeolite, and was a study from Iran. Didn't catch the date.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f38...3b336a9c3c.pdf

The down-side of the Iranian-sourced approach to this or similar issues, using zeolite (which I also have a bunch of, though the newer supply is not the 3/8" coarse, but rather granular), is that the zeolite tends to lower nearly EVERYTHING mineral or heavy metal, from what I can tell, and is proportional in effect to the amounts applied. They used very detailed graphs, and applied 5%, 10% and 15% of total applications.

And as Slow has pointed out in the past, the zeolite is stout in aluminum.

Additionally, I located sources for the MAP and some Super Phosphate.

Would the 0-45-0 SP be a better bet than the MAP, due to the MAP being a value of 11-12 on N, despite the 61-62 on P, thus avoiding any additional surge in N in a bloom soil?
moose eater is offline Quote


Post Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:17 AM.




This site is for educational and entertainment purposes only.
You must be of legal age to view ICmag and participate here.
All postings are the responsibility of their authors.
Powered by: vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.