_tessarecting
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I use black gold for seedlings
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FoxFarm Ocean Forest issue
- Thread starter pheed
- Start date
IMO, the best grow medium for seedlings is plain ole ProMix BX. Just add water and go.
ProMix BX is Ph balanced (< 6.2 after 7 days saturation), correct porosity (air 12-17%, water holding 60-75%), slight bit of nutrition (ppm mg/l): NO3 70-130, PO4 5-40, K 50-130, Ca 100-180, Mg 20-45, SO4, 30-100, Fe 0.8-2.2, Zn 0.1-1.2, Cu <0.3, Mn 0.3-1, B <0.6....and of course mycorrhizae to boot. These amounts should be sufficient for most any seedling during the first few weeks, so nothing but water is really necessary.
I pre-moisten my seedling/cutting grow medium 24 hours before use and remove any "debris" when I fluff it up.
No burn, no lockup and no fuss no muss. 100% success everytime.
ProMix BX is Ph balanced (< 6.2 after 7 days saturation), correct porosity (air 12-17%, water holding 60-75%), slight bit of nutrition (ppm mg/l): NO3 70-130, PO4 5-40, K 50-130, Ca 100-180, Mg 20-45, SO4, 30-100, Fe 0.8-2.2, Zn 0.1-1.2, Cu <0.3, Mn 0.3-1, B <0.6....and of course mycorrhizae to boot. These amounts should be sufficient for most any seedling during the first few weeks, so nothing but water is really necessary.
I pre-moisten my seedling/cutting grow medium 24 hours before use and remove any "debris" when I fluff it up.
No burn, no lockup and no fuss no muss. 100% success everytime.
Personally, I would like to see the P much higher than the K for seedlings, definitely more Ca....
what is the EC DocTim420?
what is the EC DocTim420?
Started thousands of seeds in FFOF. This is not the soil.
The comments on the boards are all over the place.
Do you rewash it prior to using it?
Seems that some folks love it, others hate it. There was also comments that the machinery where they make it is huge and doesn't blend consistently. That would explain the huge variation in opinion.
What ppms of water do you have? Is there by chance a lot of calcium in your water?
Ahhh that is also why I add a bit of CalPhos too--but I started that about a year ago; for the prior few decades it was nothing but de-chlorinated water and ProMix Bx and I got great results. Just started getting a better and early root systems after adding CalPhos to the equation.
I also add a dash of Mosquito Bits (BTi). For each gallon of slightly packed ProMix (not compressed--and definitely not loosely packed) I mix in 2.5 ml of CalPhos and 1.25 ml of Mosquito Bits, then add 45 oz of water and cover the bucket (no mixing wet stuff yet). After 24 hours I stir/mix/fluff the seedling/cutting medium until "fibrous" and fish any debris (chunks of wood, strands of peat, etc). Then I pack it in 2" mesh hydro net cups (replaces the root cube) for cuttings or cup for seedlings.
This routine, plus a 2 day water soak--between "snip" and "mesh cup" (root cube) works great for cuttings--after 15 days or so the clones are mature enough for transplanting to "cups" (50% Promix + 50% grow medium). I see roots shooting through the 2" mesh net cups after a week but seldom have to wait more than 18 days to transplant (that is 20 days from snip to transplant if you add the 2 day water soak).
BTW the EC is 1.0 – 1.8 mmhos/cm (S.M.E.)
Version of the technical data sheet--https://hydrofarm.com/downloads/fc/HydroFarm%20-%20Info%20Sheets_PT10381_4468.pdf
Last edited:
GreenThumb2U2
New member
Sometimes ocean forest is too hot, and an aroma of ammonia can be detected. You can wait and tell the dirt cools down. Or mix with another soil. I have found FFOF works better at the beginning of the grow for me. Then switch it out at transplant.
( the heat is generated by decomposition. the ammonia is from the microbes.) at this point the soil is referred to as to hot. Or your compost is not ready for planting. grab a handful of dirt and smell it if it is hot to the touch and it smells like ammonia,your dirt is not dirt its compost. This has happened from time to time with ocean forest fox farm.
-I have seen some stored dirt in the grow room for a wile before using. This allows your dirt to acclimate.
( the heat is generated by decomposition. the ammonia is from the microbes.) at this point the soil is referred to as to hot. Or your compost is not ready for planting. grab a handful of dirt and smell it if it is hot to the touch and it smells like ammonia,your dirt is not dirt its compost. This has happened from time to time with ocean forest fox farm.
-I have seen some stored dirt in the grow room for a wile before using. This allows your dirt to acclimate.
That was my point, going to see a big response to Ca and P!
Well ..... with that range of conductivity and that lack of Ca and the reported response to adding Ca and P, pretty much means you go to the casino every time you buy a bag of this stuff.
Critical to stick your nose in it and measure the conductivity. Can't go wrong with a good Cal/P product at that moment in time! Go very lightly.
Metals at this same moment in time are of utmost importance, especially Mn, Zn and Cu, in tiny little quantities... a good amino acid chelate comes to mind.
Not saying just because thousands of other users find ProMix BX a successful seedling medium is the reason I find it "right"....rather it basically is from results (hence the issues pronounced in this thread that I don't have).
Just saying a seedling medium you really don't need much--or need to be driving Bentley Continental GT when less is best. However, for growing, you will not see me in sitting a Bentley, rather you will see me driving "Koenigsegg Trevita"; gotta grow in style!
I don't grow based on "EC" #s....in fact don't even use an EC meter, rather I grow based on three things:
1. Experience--not mine but from those who have been there before me (standing on the shoulders of giants).
2. Education/academia--what do the boys in the white coats say (science).
3. What works for me--don't follow the crowd and I don't follow any particular discipline (take the best and leave the rest)!
There is no "right way"...to any particular destination, just as long as you do it "right", right?
_tessarecting
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Wonder what would happen if you put some gypsum on it
The truth is, you don't know wtf is in fox farms bags these days... The only thing guraunteed is thrips ha,
I got bags off the same pallet with different PH and EC... Maxing out the EC meter on slurry tests lol...
Their rep told me EC doesn't matter in soil only hydro ha.
I got bags off the same pallet with different PH and EC... Maxing out the EC meter on slurry tests lol...
Their rep told me EC doesn't matter in soil only hydro ha.
Not to many bagged soils work well all by themselves. Some of them may work for a couple weeks, but they eventually need to be fed tons, need extra aeration, or this and that.
Imo, best bet is to use a simple soil mix that is tried and proven. That way you know the aeration is good, the right amount of lime/gypsum is used and you have a good strong balanced supply of nutrients. Look in the organic soil section, there is a sticky with a ton of recipes. Pick an easy one that you can source the ingredients.
As far as starting seedlings, ffs... its not complicated. We get seedlings popping up all over. I have seen them grow in practically anything and everything. Personally I like a rich hot soil, then once they sprout and grow some, I will add more bat guano.
I wouldn't waste to much time trying to figure out how to make FFOF work. I also heard recently that Fox Farm had changed the liming in some of their soils, no idea what amount of truth that is but it just adds more confusion to the problem.
Gl,
Mr^^
Imo, best bet is to use a simple soil mix that is tried and proven. That way you know the aeration is good, the right amount of lime/gypsum is used and you have a good strong balanced supply of nutrients. Look in the organic soil section, there is a sticky with a ton of recipes. Pick an easy one that you can source the ingredients.
As far as starting seedlings, ffs... its not complicated. We get seedlings popping up all over. I have seen them grow in practically anything and everything. Personally I like a rich hot soil, then once they sprout and grow some, I will add more bat guano.
I wouldn't waste to much time trying to figure out how to make FFOF work. I also heard recently that Fox Farm had changed the liming in some of their soils, no idea what amount of truth that is but it just adds more confusion to the problem.
Gl,
Mr^^
GnarlsBarkley
Member
+1 for Black Gold seedling start. 100% germination (over the week) really fast with no pregermination. Saw sprouts in 2.5 days, was super impressed.
I've played with dozens of "high end" bagged soils as well as experimenting with my own mixtures from scratch.
FFOF did good sometimes, but also gave burning occasionally, so I dropped it.
FF Happy Frog seems to be much more consistent. I have used it for years.
Recently I tried Bushdoctor Coco Loco. It gives noticeably better root growth than happy frog.
All of these soils will require extra fertilization after 2-4 weeks of growth.
My best results have been from top-dressing a mix of gypsum and peruvian seabird guano....or just feeding Pure Blend Pro.
FFOF did good sometimes, but also gave burning occasionally, so I dropped it.
FF Happy Frog seems to be much more consistent. I have used it for years.
Recently I tried Bushdoctor Coco Loco. It gives noticeably better root growth than happy frog.
All of these soils will require extra fertilization after 2-4 weeks of growth.
My best results have been from top-dressing a mix of gypsum and peruvian seabird guano....or just feeding Pure Blend Pro.
SamsonsRiddle
Active member
From what i remember from the last time i used FFOF is that they had gone down in quality standards and had allowed way too many pieces of bark/tree pieces which caused the ph to drop suddenly when the oyster shell couldn't help anymore. The problem was fixed by either adding 1-2 TBS per gallon of dolomitic lime or top dressing with it and watering it in.
I always had springtails in it, also, which sucked as i usually finished out my grow with synthetics and i'm sure they had a few nibbles on the roots.
One other thing i noticed about FFOF is that it doesn't like to get very dry, just between dry and damp.
I always had springtails in it, also, which sucked as i usually finished out my grow with synthetics and i'm sure they had a few nibbles on the roots.
One other thing i noticed about FFOF is that it doesn't like to get very dry, just between dry and damp.
St. Phatty
Active member
Last time I visited the Foxfarm website, they had openings for Field Sales reps.
My guess is, they have some 'standard talking points' they're supposed to use.
Freshness. That is the quality that most bagged grow mediums just don't have. So you have 2 bags of identical grow medium from the same maker--but one was produced 9 months ago and the other is a month old. Which bag has "more" nutrition? The old or fresh bag---hmmm.
And then what about nutrient breakdown? If one agrees with the studies that concluded most organic fertilizers with 6% or greater of Nitrogen--will breakdown/decompose rapidly--such that after 28 days, about 60-100% of its N is converted to to Plant Available Nitrogen--then it should be no surprise of the variability in fertility and nutrition between two identical bags of grow medium produced at different times.
Nothing better than using fresh grow medium. My "freshness" can me measured by "number of hours"...bagged grow medium measures freshness by "number of months".
Hmmmm sorry to be a "debbie downer"...but now we all know.
And then what about nutrient breakdown? If one agrees with the studies that concluded most organic fertilizers with 6% or greater of Nitrogen--will breakdown/decompose rapidly--such that after 28 days, about 60-100% of its N is converted to to Plant Available Nitrogen--then it should be no surprise of the variability in fertility and nutrition between two identical bags of grow medium produced at different times.
Nothing better than using fresh grow medium. My "freshness" can me measured by "number of hours"...bagged grow medium measures freshness by "number of months".
Hmmmm sorry to be a "debbie downer"...but now we all know.
Who washes soil and for what reason?
