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Old 10-16-2018, 05:02 PM #1
BoxGrower
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Neem Cake

Hi All,

I've read conflicting stuff about Neem and ended up getting some Neem cake.

A quick question when is best to add Neem cake to soils?


Long version...

I run made soils through three stages of composting.

Is it best to but Neem in at the start and let it compost down or during last stage? - this is when i put final amendments in about four weeks before use.

I'm thinking to add the Neem during the final stage, there is about 9 months between stage one and stage three.

Also I presume Neem cake does compost down over six months, is this correct? I don't want to run the risk of overloading.

To be honest I've fought gnats successfully with hypoaspis Miles and Nematodes, but there are expensive and i have difficulty getting them in the mail.

Thanks all.
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Old 10-16-2018, 05:03 PM #2
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Should be *I run my soils through three stages of composting.

not - I run made soils through three stages of composting.

BG
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Old 10-16-2018, 06:09 PM #3
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Do NOT use neem cake.


It still has plenty of azadirachtin in it, which is why it makes a good insecticide amendment. Cannabis + azadirachtin is poison and causes Cannabinoid Hypermesis Syndrome. If you're going to use it, please do not share your cannabis.


Try Gnat Nix for gnats. It's a ground glass product which works like DE. Unlike DE, it works when wet, doesn't float when dry.
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Old 10-16-2018, 06:31 PM #4
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Neem anything is bad JUJU
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Old 10-16-2018, 08:26 PM #5
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I canít swear to it but I believe Neem Cake would compost rather quickly. Iím sure someone more knowledgeable than me will confirm. Subscibed to get a final answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas.Curtis View Post
Do NOT use neem cake.


It still has plenty of azadirachtin in it, which is why it makes a good insecticide amendment. Cannabis + azadirachtin is poison and causes Cannabinoid Hypermesis Syndrome. If you're going to use it, please do not share your cannabis.


Try Gnat Nix for gnats. It's a ground glass product which works like DE. Unlike DE, it works when wet, doesn't float when dry.
Do you have any documentation related to that claim? I canít find any documented connection between Neem and CHS. Seems like itís gotten popular to slam on Neem lately but itís been used in agriculture for a very long time without any issues. Iím not arguing but I hear people making claims and can never find any documentation. So, it feels more like stoner science more than actual science. To each their own, fo sho! Personally, Iím gonna keep using Neem until I see some sort of scientific proof that thereís a problem with it.

Thanks for the tip on Gnat Nix! Sounds like great product.
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Old 10-16-2018, 08:50 PM #6
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https://www.google.com/search?q=Neem...ient=firefox-b
https://steemit.com/cannabis/@drutte...neem-poisoning
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:41 PM #7
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I would love to see some actual data to support to these anti-neem claims. Not speculation or anecdotal evidence. The most compelling reason to not use neem in my opinion is the fossil fuel cost to get it.

In my experience it is a microbial food source similar to other amendments when you throw it under the microscope.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:03 PM #8
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I know in clay soils, amending with neem seed meal is capable of causing CHS symptoms for several seasons.

Just like everything else which has been banned from cannabis use, neem is a product which was tested safe with other plants unrelated plants.

As these other pesticides were bitched about for years( by the growers and users most sensitive to and afflicted by the pesticide + cannabis), they were eventually approved for testing and found unacceptable. A difficult thing under prohibition.

The difference with neem is it's so damn subtle, and people have such varying levels of sensitivity, when combined with it building up in the body over time it's difficult to pinpoint as aza. I can see how those only mildly sensitive would mistake the slowed digestion for having eaten too much potatoes and whatnot. The old football injury flaring up was because you must have stressed it 'or something.'

This isn't some haphazard warning, I've personally experienced it for a decade, and have done the research to prove my theory. I'm waiting for 'the establishment' to pick up on the outcry of mine and other growers who are aware of the truth, so the proper research can be done and people can stop suffering.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:23 PM #9
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Sounds like stoner science to me.. the meal hardly has any azadirachtin in anyway as its mostly all in the oil, which people ingest or use externally medicinally.. plenty of people get this repeated nausea and vomiting from chronic cannabis use with out neem having been used in the growing.. it happened to me for about 3 years and i didnt use neem then.

Neem has been used safely in eastern medicine since the beginning of time and one of its uses is ironically an antiemetic. its one of the most important plants in Ayurveda, millions (probably 100s of millions) take it every day, and ive never come across this kind of thing with its use before.. i also cant find anything substantial on this just a couple case study research pieces of a couple adverse effects from ingestion of the oil.. which is common for anything.

But you can have an adverse effect to any chemical and Neem is a powerful blood tonic and detoxifier so i suppose it could be a cause of emesis especially in patients with swollen spleens and/or parasites, or hypersensitive livers.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:24 PM #10
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Appreciate the link. Respectfully, I see a lot of jumping to conclusions and not much science as it relates to cannabis. No doubt that too much Neem or azadirachtin is a bad thing but Iím having trouble seeing the minute amount absorbed into a bud having much effect and, when it does, itís on those with particular sensitivities or compromised systems. I can certainly see a niche market for neem-free cannabis for those who suffer those issues but to condemn Neem on the whole for something that might cause a rare issue in some people, at a statistically insignificant level, seems extreme. As one article referenced pointed out, cannabis had been grown and used in Asia for thousands of years with no hint at this issue. What the article conveniently leaves out is that those same cultures regularly used Neem in their agriculture. So, drawing a connection between cannabis grown with Neem products and folks suffering from CHS seems pretty hazy to me. Thereís a LOT of supposition and theory here without any direct science that I can see.

There is an awful lot of cannabis being grown with the use of Neem, from oil to cake, thatís being injested by millions and millions of people without any negative effects. If CHS was a widespread issue and there was some conclusive scientific evidence that said it was caused solely and specifically by azadirachtin, Iíd be more concerned. So far, though, thatís not the case. But hey, itís a free world and every grower has to make their own choices. Itís a good thing to know that people have these concerns; so they can make their own informed decisions about how they grow and what products they use. For now, Iím going to remain pro-neem as itís better than chemical pesticides, imo. Iíve never heard of anyone having CHS except on the internet. I suspect that one of these days California will add Neem to the endless list of things that have to a warning label, like water. Lol. Drinking too much water can kill you. Lol.

In this case the OP was asking about Neem composting. I wonder if composted Neem even has azadirachtin in it after the microbes and maybe the worms get ahold of it?
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