Coco in Fabric Pots Giving me HELL

mowood3479 · Dec 1, 2015

Mistake número uno... Flushing with straight ro for two weeks.
Get a base nutrient and feed daily.... (I prefer the head recipe.. There is a great thread on it here on ic (search member greatful head))...but many nutrient lines will work.
Mistake número dos.. Flood and drain. This can be done with coco but is better left to expert growers. Start with hand watered/fertigsted daily and set up a drip system drain to waste if that goes well..
I took over a grow recently from a friend who had neglected things...his plants looked similar to the ops. (All fucked up and deficient).
I gave them 8ml of canna a an 8ml of canna b plus 8ml of rhisotonic per gallon 1x daily.
In two weeks they were growing fast with lush green growth... They were flipped to flower yesterday. So u may be able to recover these plants, it will take time tho and the damaged leaves won't generally recover, the plant will just grow healthy new growth.
Good luck

mowood3479 · Dec 1, 2015

N I very much doubt it's a salt build up issue if u have been flushing for two weeks.
My idea of flushing a plant in coco is one (or two at the most) 1/4 to 1/2 strength feeds.
I almost never run straight water through my coco pots
(But then again I rarely feed stronger than 1.2ec) so unless there is an environmental reason for the plants not taking up nutrients a flush isn't usually needed)

MR_Falcon · Dec 1, 2015

dansbuds said:
I see PH imbalance , salt build up on the pots , ebb & flo for coco & fabric pots is for people who REALLY know how to handle cocos needs . drip to waste is the way to go for newbies .
i see you switched over , thats great . but , Do NOT let the pots sit in the runoff !!! salts will build up again . especially if they get dry by next feed .
feed light & feed every time ... no plain water flushes !!! always flush with a low dose nutrient mix with the PH at 5.7 to 5.9 , this keeps the coco charged & the PH in range .

to be honest , them plants look to far gone . they will come out of it if you fix all their problems , but its going to take awhile . & i don't know if they'll ever fully recover . you might want to do some more research on coco & its needs & start some new plants in fresh pots of coco . but if you do plan on keeping them & trying to fix them , get them outa them pots & rinse off as much of the coco as possible & get them into a fresh pot & fresh coco with a 1/2 dose charge of nutes PHed to 5.7 to 5.9

thats just my opinion , you do what you see fit .

paper thorn said:
Flushed at 5.0
Then at 5.5
Nutes at 5.5

Where did you ever get the idea that you should run with a ph that low?

People keep saying 5.8-6.2 range and you keep saying 5.5 like there's no difference. or at least no problem.
Sure way to lock out magnesium, and calcium, and of course once that happens and then throw in flushing with ro which is going to try to grab some ions while it's passing through the medium leaving you with nothing and when you do feed they can't take stuff up in the right ratios, one missing thing get replaced by something the plant doesn't need, antagonisms(too much of one thing locking out another) occur until the plant is getting almost nothing it needs.
Takes them forever to recover. If they do.

Previous posters have given perfect advice, please take it.

mowood3479 said:
Mistake número uno... Flushing with straight ro for two weeks.
Get a base nutrient and feed daily.... (I prefer the head recipe.. There is a great thread on it here on ic (search member greatful head))...but many nutrient lines will work.
Mistake número dos.. Flood and drain. This can be done with coco but is better left to expert growers. Start with hand watered/fertigsted daily and set up a drip system drain to waste if that goes well..
I took over a grow recently from a friend who had neglected things...his plants looked similar to the ops. (All fucked up and deficient).
I gave them 8ml of canna a an 8ml of canna b plus 8ml of rhisotonic per gallon 1x daily.
In two weeks they were growing fast with lush green growth... They were flipped to flower yesterday. So u may be able to recover these plants, it will take time tho and the damaged leaves won't generally recover, the plant will just grow healthy new growth.
Good luck

all the answers to your problems & a quick how -to grow good plants in coco have been posted in this thread. some good coco growers giving good coco info.
I think low ph might've been the initial problem but 2 weeks of str8 ro is going to put the plants into critical condition. you might be able to get them to recover part way but I don't think they'll recover enough to yield a quality harvest. my :2cents:

. good luck

LimitedEdition · Dec 1, 2015

Thank you EVERYONE for the vastly amount of
Information. I AM learning here so I really appreciate
All the responses and efforts! Thanks all around !

Buddler · Dec 1, 2015

mowood3479 said:
Mistake número uno... Flushing with straight ro for two weeks.
Get a base nutrient and feed daily.... (I prefer the head recipe.. There is a great thread on it here on ic (search member greatful head))...but many nutrient lines will work.
Mistake número dos.. Flood and drain. This can be done with coco but is better left to expert growers. Start with hand watered/fertigsted daily and set up a drip system drain to waste if that goes well..
I took over a grow recently from a friend who had neglected things...his plants looked similar to the ops. (All fucked up and deficient).
I gave them 8ml of canna a an 8ml of canna b plus 8ml of rhisotonic per gallon 1x daily.
In two weeks they were growing fast with lush green growth...

There you go buy some coco nutes and flush at 5.8 Till you get same ppm coming out as going in let dry out a bit repeat and watch them bounce back.

Wendull C. · Dec 1, 2015

Listen to dansbuds. Coco is for dtw. Once you get better with it it yields the best for me and with fabric pots hand watered to 20% run off 30 minutes after lights on.If you have access to new clones it will take longer to get your plant back to health than to start new ones.

New healthy girls always do better than old sick ones. If you need to keep the strain clone it then spray it with 1/4 strength insta green every couple days. They will either die or you will keep your cuts.

BTW use a chlorine sediment filter for coco. It leaves more in the water that coco will buffer out.

stoned40yrs · Dec 1, 2015

Wendull C. said:
Coco is for dtw. Once you get better with it it yields the best for me and with fabric pots hand watered to 20% run off 30 minutes after lights on.

Why ya gotta say BS like this :biggrin:

DTW is only one way to grow in coco and is not the best at anything except wasting nutes down the drain. I DTW all last winter and saw it is not better in any way than giving the coco just enough. Now I'm back to blumats in bloom and in veg just giving the plants ENOUGH nutes/water and it probably works better than DTW. :tiphat:

Wendull C. · Dec 1, 2015

I apologize sir. He said he was new, all the guys I know recirculating with coco have been at it for awhile.

stoned40yrs · Dec 1, 2015

Wendull C. said:
I apologize sir. He said he was new, all the guys I know recirculating with coco have been at it for awhile.

That's not what I meant mate :biggrin:

This new guy for sure needs to do an easy way like DTW. I'm just saying no runoff and runoff both work great, peace out :tiphat:

Wendull C. · Dec 1, 2015

Now understood. My last coco was no runoff. No difference in anything except I flushed a bit longer just for piece of mind.

MrBungle · Dec 1, 2015

They look underwatered, underfed, and a rising pH ... give those girls some veg nutes

LimitedEdition · Dec 2, 2015

Xray Kimono said:
Still no details on how much and how often... AND STOP FLUSHING COCO W PLAIN RO...it throws EVERYTHING out of whack.

And get out your reading glasses and do a LOT more research.

Sorry I mistakenly overlooked this. And COPY you on the COCO FLUSH! If it has Hydrogaurd in it, does that make a difference??

In the beginning, It was all hand feed until then ended up in the fabric pots and the ebb and flow system, so I was watering everytime the soil was dry up to my knuckle.

Ebb and flow feed every other day for 3 weeks. ( DynaGrow, CalMag)

Once it got ugly, I was flushing with Hydroguard every 3-4 days, then starts flushing with RO for another week or so

From then until 3 weeks later , Only once every 7 days of OG Root Pack and I watered them about every 2 days in between those 2 applications of the OG Root pack.

Now I am sketched out and am Watering by hand a 1 Gallon per plant (3 Gal Jug) , Drain to waste IF there is any, I hardly see any now that I have been hand feeding.

Right now, I have 5.5 which I plan to go to 5.7 , CalMag, and Nitrogen , all 100% ( directions from the bottle, no diluting)
-IMPORTANT-
I was Also going to add 50% Dynagrow , Dumb Idea?)

I have NOT feed the plants this yet feed, I am trying to ask a buddy first...OR YOU guys hahahah

Until then, just RO 2.7 water

Anyway, that where I am now, just focusing on the Clones that look healthy and adding small improvments to my setup (YoYos for the LED, purchasing prayers, prepring Root Plugs) Keeping busywhile surrpound by misrable ass plants ya know ? LOL

'Best
Chad

LimitedEdition · Dec 2, 2015

LimitedEdition said:
Until then, just RO 2.7 water

ummm no , I meant 5.7 - 5.9

mowood3479 · Dec 2, 2015

Yes use the DynaGrow... I'd do 75% of what they recommend

dansbuds · Dec 2, 2015

find one base nutrient & stick to that , adding all this other crap is only going to complicate things . a good base nute is all you need to get healthy happy plants at first . once thats dialed in , you can start with 1 additive at a time to make better plants .
feed to runoff every time to flush the salts out & get that runoff out right away ! i like the buckethead shop vac from homedepot . it fits right on a 5 gallon homer bucket & is easy to drag around to suck out the runoff .
yes 40years , we know no runoff works , but lets get him on the right tack first huh ? lol

never let the pots of coco go dry during the 24 hr cycle , if it is getting dry by next feed , then add another feed just before lights off , this usually happens by the 4th week of flower cuz they're feeding the heaviest by then .

but like my first statement , find a good coco specific base nute like canna coco A & B or the like to feed your plants with & stick to it . after you've got a few runs down & know how to properly handle cocos needs then you can start with different additives .... one at a time !!!! to much all at once & you won't know where any problems started like your going through now .

feed strength .... in veg you don't need to go over 1.0 EC 500PPMs
in flower you don't need to go over 1.4 EC 700PPMs unless its a hungry strain , the plants will tell you what they need , you just have to learn how to read them .

PH is important in coco . 5.9 is the sweet spot where 90% of the nutrients can be absorbed , but a PH swing from 5.7 to 6.1 will make sure that ALL the nutes get absorbed .
get a PH meter & some calibration fluid & learn how to use it & keep it calibrated !

you can feed by millileters or tsp's , but start off with half of whatever the bottle recomends & build up from there if the plants need more .

thats all i can think of now . i'll throw up some charts for you to check out & go by in the future .

oh yeah , seeing as how your dealing with clones right now too , treat fresh planted clones & coco like a soil . by that i mean , coco needs a dry time to let the roots grow out to search for water . not bone dry , but just dry enough they have to search out the water in the pot . i like the top layer of coco in a beer cup to get Tan colored before i'll add more . but the bottom half of the cup is still damp , not bone dry . once the cup is full of roots you can feed it everyday untill its time to transplant it . then once its transplanted , you do the dry cycle again until the roots are established in the pots . ya diggin this yet ? lol

dansbuds · Dec 2, 2015

these should help you understand a few things & will be good to have as a referance for later .

good luck dude ! & if you have any questions .... just ask :tiphat:

LimitedEdition · Dec 2, 2015

Thank you everyone! Great advice and thanks for these awesome charts!

Thanks again!!

LimitedEdition · Dec 5, 2015

aridbud said:
salt build up on the pots , ebb & flo for coco & fabric pots is for people who REALLY know how to handle cocos needs .

Saw that immediately. Over fertilizing, incorrect proportions mixing so much together. For sure, salt build up. Scrape off top layer that's moldy, careful not to nick plant stalk in doing so.

Any way you can cut the fabric, lightly trim roots and set in 5 gallon container? Mix perlite in if using coco.

You may have to chalk it up to learning experience (not repeating) and let the plants go.....

Short question: Can I was the coco COMPLETELY off before transplanting?

Long Question:

If I do this, any change I can totally wash the roots? As in dipping them into water until I have nothing but roots? I think this Coco has small bugs, Springtails are what I am told, But I am starting to see other shit and I am not in the mood to deal with bugs if all I am doing is transplanting keeping the old coco.

Thank you!

kin_dawg · Dec 5, 2015

Coco is very easy, get comfortable with that fact.
You perhaps need to have a play with your pH levels. When I switched from Canna to H&G, I experienced some deficiency, lowering from 6-6.2 to 5.8 solved the issue. Canna is alot more forgiving IME. Keep your temperatures in check as they will exacerbate problems.
Scrap those plants and start again. Feed with fresh pH'd A+B nutrient solution, the only other necessary additive is silica, even then if your just flowering a run from seed then the silica isn't truly necessary. Keep it simple. If you have burning or deficiency, flush with some fresh pH'd water just to 'reset' things. You need to observe and monitor, make small changes to pH, check calibration of pH pen. You'd be surprised how often the little things are to blame.
Your plants are terrible, maybe something in your system is toxic, up to you to find out. And listen to these guys^

Yes you can completely wash the roots off, it will stunt your plants but at this point it wouldn't really matter.
FWIW the point is to grow the MJ to its fullest potential and to make it look cake :smoker:

LimitedEdition · Dec 5, 2015

kin_dawg said:
Coco is very easy, get comfortable with that fact.
You perhaps need to have a play with your pH levels. When I switched from Canna to H&G, I experienced some deficiency, lowering from 6-6.2 to 5.8 solved the issue. Canna is alot more forgiving IME. Keep your temperatures in check as they will exacerbate problems.
Scrap those plants and start again. Feed with fresh pH'd A+B nutrient solution, the only other necessary additive is silica, even then if your just flowering a run from seed then the silica isn't truly necessary. Keep it simple. If you have burning or deficiency, flush with some fresh pH'd water just to 'reset' things. You need to observe and monitor, make small changes to pH, check calibration of pH pen. You'd be surprised how often the little things are to blame.
Your plants are terrible, maybe something in your system is noxious, up to you to find out. And listen to these guys^

Yes you can completely wash the roots off, it will stunt your plants but at this point it wouldn't really matter.
FWIW the point is to grow the MJ to its fullest potential and to make it look cake

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!! HUGE INFO and lots of good stuff! THANKS!!

Coco in Fabric Pots Giving me HELL

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