The Search for Trip Weed

Hi Gert, all jokes aside, you've got really photogenic hands man (wink). So Greek, Nepales/Mexican/indica, that's a rare cross indeed. I've heard from an old forum member that the Kalamata Red was once some very powerful smoke. In Australia a lot of the Greek and Italian farmers who migrated here during and after the second world war, were prime growers of large commercial crops, and the pot that used to be seen in the larger cities was often referred to as 'Greek Heads'. Anyway it's always nice to stumble upon these rare strains and find a joyous, uplifting smoke.

Hi TB, I know you asked me about some of the pics I've shown. First off here's a shot of the Laos border Thai flower in the morning sun...


And this is the earliest flowering Thai x NH/MM. The mother produced flowers very much like the plant above, but the cross has engendered a more conventional cola, however the smell is the sweet musky funk of the mother...



And here's a lanky MMxThai'78 that I planted late in the season. I've learned that if I plant some backups halfway through the season they don't go so large and vulnerable to weather damage, but flower a month or so later.

jayjayfrank said:

Brightness - LSD-like unfocused 'glow' of light emitting and reflecting objects. can include the 'skewed colors' involving your complete field of vision(things look orange/blue). experienced from the zamaldelica

Lightness/Awake - physical energy and 'clarity' of vision, can spot a mouse in a field a mile away. 'pumped' and 'amped up' like cocaine, no sleeping, will even keep you up if smoking before bed(as in 'why am i laying here awake'). experienced in hazexskunk and nevilles haze.

music/sound - 'gestalt' is lost, 'mistake the forest for the trees', instruments in unison as a whole loose their 'togetherness' and the ear will pick out individual sounds to focus on, instead of taking it all in as a whole.

paranoia/anxiety - have only had this once or twice, not a good feeling, complete hormonal 'fight or flight' terror. thought to myself "why did you did that?! you are going to have a heart attack" - taking a break and then partaking in hash seem to give you an 'overload'

WALKING WITH JESUS - the white light, ethereal perception, 3rd eye opening, epiphany. almost complete non-functioning endocannabinoid system overload. not just couch locked, not just on a space trip but completely re-wiring of the brain while conscious. suspect may only be a one off experience not to be repeated. was from(supposedly) indica x jamaican hybrid cross, LA area circa 2000

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I like this post as well, and can relate to all of the quoted experiences. That golden glow that seemingly illuminates everything from within is something I enjoy a lot. My father relates a story of smoking a batch of grass in the late 60s and seeing rainbows coming out of the speakers. I've never gone that deep, but the 'walking with Jesus' I have experienced a number of times, particularly if I have some soaring energetic herb and start to meditate spontaneously, which can go on for hours. IMO that experience is something we should strive for when we are straight and the exogenous endocannabioid trigger is but a signpost of what we can achieve.

Greetings,

Great posts everyone!

This is not the first time I've heard great things about Greek strains.

Not surprised to hear trippy stories about Jamaican strains. From my experience back in the day, I considered it as good as anything in the world I ever smoked.

Love the trippy descriptions.

Every time I turn around, Bushy is showing off yet another Thai strain. Love it.

ThaiBliss

Greetings,

Idiit is a man of few words, but he's getting a following due to vast experience and good advice. He already posted a smoke report, with a few words. I'll probably write an essay or something, but if I had more time, it would be with fewer words also. This is the bastardization of a quote attributed to a number of people... so I carry on, in my own bastard way.

Trip weed. If I get lucky enough to find a powerful trip weed strain, I may have to reduce the ripening date so I might be able to grow it outside in my area, 42 degrees north latitude. I have heard that some phenotypes of Bangi Haze might be early enough for where I live. I tested one Bangi Haze individual indoors, and it turned out good enough to use for the purpose of ripening date reduction, if it is early enough. I'm going to test several outside this summer.

It was not especially strong, but another individual may be more potent, and all individuals may be more potent when grown outside. Where it really shined was the quality of the high. Extremely clear, energetic, euphoric, and trippy in a couple of different ways. One way was that I felt "at one" with the universe. Another way to put it would be that it made me feel empathy to all other beings. In short, Irie. It also had distinct auditory enhancement. Sounds just blossomed. I don't believe that genetics which generate this type of high could ever be a bad influence on any other type of high, although I don't have enough breeding experience to know for sure.

My understanding is that Bangi Haze was bred from mainly Nepalese and Bangi Congolese. I'm also growing a couple of NepalJam, comprised of Nepalese and Jamaican Blue Mountain. I had a Jamaican once that reportedly was collected directly, from a friend of a friend, in Jamaica. It looked very much like pictures I've seen of Jamaican Blue Mountain. This plant I grew was similar to Bangi Haze with its positive good vibe and potency, though not as clear and energetic. It will be interesting to see how NepalJam turns out.

I started some seeds a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, a couple of those weeks were rainy and cool, but this last week we got some good sunny and warm weather. They have been in a greenhouse covered with 6mil plastic, that I believe filters out some ultra violet ray of light, and probably other wavelengths as well. This morning, I have taken them out of the greenhouse for a few hours of early morning sunlight and gentle breezes to help them harden off before planting outside in a few weeks. They have been a bit spindly, I believe due to not enough light. I took this opportunity to take a few pictures.

Here is the whole group:



The Bangi Haze I grew, I started 3 and one was female, were all very broad leaf plants, perhaps from the Nepalese side. There are a couple of broader leaf plants in this group, but also some relatively narrow leaf individuals.

Here are the narrower leaf ones:




Here are the relatively broader leaf ones:





So.. there was some foreshadowing going in my first paragraph. This is a long winded post, and yet there is more...

Here is one of the NepalJam seedlings:


Happy Tripping,

ThaiBliss

Do you see a difference between trippy, and psychedelic? Can one be without the other?

I tend to see aspects like[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] "at one with the universe", "empathy to all other beings"[/FONT] and enhanced colors mainly as psychedelic. Can you have a clear trippy high or is trippy all about stirring this up?

Bushweed: Thank you, sir, I blush. May be more due to to the plant I'm holding, though!

Re trippy: For me, weed that sends you on a powerful brain trip, seeing solutions, etc, is NOT what I call trippy, though it's my favourite type. I call that sort of high "cerebral". A very close relative is what I call "warrior weed", the sort of stuff you want to have at hand if you're leading a demo or a revolution, or having to address a huge gathering, makes you see why being brave is the only thing that makes sense. Love this stuff, too.

For me trippy, is when you actually hallucinate stuff that's not there, a mild form of it is when you see people's faces as cartoons, or caricatures of themselves, in stronger forms you can see or believe whole scenarios that are not there...

I remember someone on this board telling the story of how he went through his friend's old school photos, remembering who everybody was. When he sobered up he realised that he didn't even go to that school! Another example was someone staying at a remote lake in Malawi. It was idyllic, except he was bothered by the occasional low-flying jet-liner that was taking off. Later he realised he was hundreds of miles from the nearest airport! Now, that's trippy!!!

For this reason, trippy weed (as defined above) is not really my favourite, though it does have its its time and place (rarely), when you want to be entertained by how weird the human mind can be. For me, it's warrior weed and cerebral weed all the way FTW! That stuff really improves my quality of life, the rest is just harmless entertainment.

Hey Thule, I remember a weed I had which was as you describe: so altruistic, so empathic, it really made you see the other person's point of view, even though you'd never think this possible when sober. It also made me extremely sensitive to anything that was perceived as "wrong", i.e. extremely selfish, to the extent that just hearing about or being aware of great injustices would just about bring a tear to my eye, and would certainly not tolerate today's common voyeuristic approach to other peoples' misfortune.

I call that sort of weed "super-altruistic", wouldn't necessarily fall within my definition of "trippy", though.

Idiit is a man of few words, but he's getting a following due to vast experience and good advice.

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^^ too funny.

I guess when I think of "trippy" I try to relate it to a mushroom trip and what goes through your head during it. The kinds of trippy highs you guys are describing are what I would call "tripping balls". Not even psychdelics take me there every time, I'm too much rooted in to reality to even hallucinate most of the time.

Warrior weed, I like the sound of that! It brings me back to a certain malawi gold x celestial temple sativa I once grew, very kick you in the ass stuff, but smoke too much and the warrior is lost in fairyland. It's sometimes the dosage that makes something trippy or functional.

Thule said:

It's sometimes the dosage that makes something trippy or functional.

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Yeah, agreed on that!

Gert Lush said:

Re trippy: For me, weed that sends you on a powerful brain trip, seeing solutions, etc, is NOT what I call trippy, though it's my favourite type. I call that sort of high "cerebral". A very close relative is what I call "warrior weed", the sort of stuff you want to have at hand if you're leading a demo or a revolution, or having to address a huge gathering, makes you see why being brave is the only thing that makes sense. Love this stuff, too.

For me trippy, is when you actually hallucinate stuff that's not there, a mild form of it is when you see people's faces as cartoons, or caricatures of themselves, in stronger forms you can see or believe whole scenarios that are not there...

I remember someone on this board telling the story of how he went through his friend's old school photos, remembering who everybody was. When he sobered up he realised that he didn't even go to that school! Another example was someone staying at a remote lake in Malawi. It was idyllic, except he was bothered by the occasional low-flying jet-liner that was taking off. Later he realised he was hundreds of miles from the nearest airport! Now, that's trippy!!!

For this reason, trippy weed (as defined above) is not really my favourite, though it does have its its time and place (rarely), when you want to be entertained by how weird the human mind can be. For me, it's warrior weed and cerebral weed all the way FTW! That stuff really improves my quality of life, the rest is just harmless entertainment.

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Thai is warrior weed for me, except I call it coca weed lol, its an upliftment, but an aggressive and expansive one, as opposed to something that turns you inwards.
For cerebral weed I would probably choose Zambian, many African strains seem to strike the balance for me.

Trippy weed takes you on a trip, far beyond the everyday reality, usually leaves one exhausted on returning,
the thought forms and inner realms are far more profound than seeing a pink elephant in the room, also far more difficult to articulate, put another way its easy to describe a hallucination but far harder to describe what you actually felt during the experience.

I agree its not something I would want to do often, but it has its purpose!

The best ganja
a) makes you realize the beauty and oneness of life b) fills your heart with that loving vibration c) has no ceiling and d) is strong enough to make you laugh and go WTF!

TB) I believe the suspicion on the Spanish forums is that the Congo in Bangi Hz was crossed to a Dutch Indica...

I just smoked some immature Mangobiche tips - and it's strength surprised me, but not too much indication of the character/quality yet...

bushweed said:

The best ganja
a) makes you realize the beauty and oneness of life b) fills your heart with that loving vibration c) has no ceiling and d) is strong enough to make you laugh and go WTF!

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Amen

bushweed said:

TB) I believe the suspicion on the Spanish forums is that the Congo in Bangi Hz was crossed to a Dutch Indica...

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I believe it is acknowledged that Congo has Indica:
Congo = Bangi X ( Congo #3 / Chitral ) 75% Sativa / 25 % Indica

I have read that Bangi has some Haze in it, perhaps a Haze hybrid from Amsterdam. I believe this has been hinted to, even by the name, but there seems to be a reluctance to discuss it further. I go back and forth about the whole Sativa and Indica nomenclature. They breed together and their offspring can produce viable seeds, so they are basically the same species. I mostly use the terms to distinguish the types of high, which are gross generalizations. I have experienced two very broad leaf varieties that have what I consider classic Sativa highs. Bangi Haze is one of them, and the other is Burmese. Both have very high quality types of high, in my opinion. The end result of the effect is all that really counts, and Bangi Haze has much of what you mention above. This makes it superior to most Indicas for reducing ripening end date of other longer flowering strains. I very much hope that Nanan-Bouclou, another broad leaved strain, falls in with these in the quality of the high. I would keep it if it does, and let go the SAGE cutting I have been holding for several years. Higher potency would be a big bonus.

Glad to hear the Mangobiche is looking promising.

Speaking of biche... I transplanted the Jamaican Ganja today. I left them in my tall skinny pots longer than I should have for best health and vigor. I did this in the hopes that the restricted root area would encourage the plants to push out a pre-flowing pistil and reveal its gender. No such luck. They would rather be stubborn. I spent some time with them, transplanting, watering, and rubbing their stems and petioles. I was enjoying very much the aromas. Both plants have a green fruit smell. One has an additional incense aroma. The other smells like green fruit and perfume. Both are divine. I thought they were going to be behind the Red Hair plant that is waiting in the wings. Now I think they are going to take over the flowering cabinet. I wish they were more mature looking as I want to put them into flowering soon. I also hope one is male, so I can cut it back drastically to make room for the others two.

Best,

ThaiBliss

ThaiBliss said:

Amen

I believe it is acknowledged that Congo has Indica:
Congo = Bangi X ( Congo #3 / Chitral ) 75% Sativa / 25 % Indica

I have read that Bangi has some Haze in it, perhaps a Haze hybrid from Amsterdam. I believe this has been hinted to, even by the name, but there seems to be a reluctance to discuss it further. I go back and forth about the whole Sativa and Indica nomenclature.

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As I understand it the Ace Congo, which contains Bangi Congo, Congo 3 and PCK, wasn't used in Bangi Haze.
The Bangi Haze is Bangi Congo x Nepalese, however silver haze (or some kind of haze) was crossed into it early in the breeding stage, apparently now only a small percentage of the haze remains.
The Bangi Congo I think originally came from LMN.
The Congo 3 comes from a sailor who collected many sativas on his journeys

Greetings,

I was privately contacted by a grower of orchids that set me straight on the idea that producing viable seeds by crossing two different species in the same genus of plants is not uncommon. This should not be the determining factor on whether two plants are the same species. What does everyone else think about Sativa vs Indica. Do they deserve to be considered separate species?

I was also contacted privately by someone else who has moved to a different nomenclature. Narrow Leaf Drug, Broad Leaf Drug, Narrow Leaf Hemp, and Broad Leaf Hemp. Others have also started using this system. Some use the term Wide Leaf instead of Broad Leaf. I think this is an improvement, but I'm still not convinced more separation is required, over the idea of reducing the number of bisections of species when it comes to Cannabis. What do you think?

Thanks,

ThaiBliss

Different species, maybe not. Subspecies, perhaps.

I'm not buying into the idea that all cannabis originated in a single place and spread from there with man. It definitely isn't Central Asia, as the species growing there is cannabis sativa, and further south cannabis indica. The diversity in the area can be explained by the mixing of the two rather than Central Asia being where it all started.

Just to clarify, I'm using Hilligs taxonomy here. Sativa is ruderalis/hemp, and differs from indica by being high in CBD, low in THC. Sativa also shares certain strands of DNA with humulus japonicus, which to me implies it cannot be the original species, rather than proto sativa that hybridized with humulus japonicus at some point in time giving the hybrid an edge at northern latitudes.

In this scenario the original habitat of cannabis would have pretty much covered the whole lenght of the greater Himalayas, the southern slopes from Pakistan to China where we still see wild growth today. The area is heavily affected by the monsoons, some areas experiencing heavy rains and others rain shadow.. so in all likely hood the diversity between broad leaf- and narrow leaf varieties was already there from the start.

In that sense crossing broad leaves with narrow leaves is not like crossing bulldogs and sighthounds, I think they're in practice subspecies of cannabis, although there exists a continuum of traits and a gradual change from one to the other. If they manage to find genetic markers that can differentiate between the two, I'd say it's settled.

I harvested a little more than half of the ACE Zamaldelica (Zamal Pheno) x Seeds of Africa Malawi Gold. This plant ripened from the bottom up by branch and by individual buds. The top bud on the biggest branch I harvested looks perfect at the bottom and a touch green at the very top to illustrate what I mean by each bud ripening from the bottom up:




I had a hard time getting good shots that show how sparkly the resin glands are. At the perfect angle in the morning sunlight, the shadow of the camera or my arm is in the way. The few that I did manage to get seemed to be a touch out of focus. Perhaps the soft focus makes them sparkle, but I swear it looks better in person as compared to the photographs. Maybe a tripod is in my future.






Busy Cannabis weekend for me. Got more to do, so...

All the Best,

ThaiBliss

Thule said:

...Sativa also shares certain strands of DNA with humulus japonicus, which to me implies it cannot be the original species, rather than proto sativa that hybridized with humulus japonicus at some point in time giving the hybrid an edge at northern latitudes...

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Hi Thule,
Could you back this up with facts (like a reliable publication)? Not that I don't believe you, it's just out of curiosity.

I don't know how OT that is but take for example garden ginger. This plant seems to be functionally sterile and it is believed that ginger has been propagated solely via rhizome cuttings since time immemorial. We known that ginger has been known as a medicinal plant for more than 4 millennia and was also cultivated since then (but no real wild ginger has ever been found!). Nowadays, ginger grows all over the tropical parts of the world, distributed by mankind. And still, the diversity (pheno- & chemotype) in different cultivars is maybe broader than that of the different cannabis varieties. Without genetic evidence we would assume that there are several different species of garden ginger and not just one (even without subspecies).
With plants like that and lacking written history, we simply can only guess from where it really came and how and when it was distributed all over our planet.

We should be glad that there are still mysteries and wonders to be uncovered on this earth!

P.S. The first 'private person' ThaiBliss mentioned was me... but I'm not a breeder of orchids, just happen to have some on know a thing or two. I'm as interested in them as I am in cacti (had over a 100 species in my best times) and cannabis (well, that's my latest 'to grow' plant) .

Only Ornamental said:

Hi Thule,
Could you back this up with facts (like a reliable publication)? Not that I don't believe you, it's just out of curiosity.

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I assume you're curious about the humulus part so there you go!

http://people.gucas.ac.cn/upload/UserFiles/File/20120630201838630235.pdf

There are also numerous good articles written by Karl W. Hillig that are worth reading.

Thule said:

I assume you're curious about the humulus part so there you go!

http://people.gucas.ac.cn/upload/UserFiles/File/20120630201838630235.pdf

There are also numerous good articles written by Karl W. Hillig that are worth reading.

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Well, well... I had a quick look at that publication (thanks BTW!) and I have to say:
Thule, you got it all wrong . Naw, just kidding, it's only the part with hops.

It is not 'sharing DNA' and it is also not 'hybridisation', the different cannabis samples tested have simply a certain homology with hops. The DNA we're talking about is like human mitochondrial DNA not a part of the chromosomes but of organelles. That means, it is differently inherited, usually only by the females, and hence does change less (and most importantly doesn't mix with the fathers DNA). These DNAs give a glimpse at the past and are used to determine who's related to whom on a phylogenetic level. That said, findings in that publication indicate that certain cannabis specimens have a higher similarity (with regard to those DNAs) with hops species than with each other. Sounds completely strange till now, I'll explain .
Chloroplast and mitochondrial DNA still show a certain evolution or rather a more or less known amount of (spontaneous) mutations per time. A given heterogeneity (or differences to a control sample) translates into a certain amount of mutations; this in turn tells us how long it's been since the two samples have diverged in evolution. Differently put, this giving us an idea until when a species was identical with another one or at which time-point in history the two became separated ones (like men and ape).
If you see now a closer relation with another genus than within its own species, you may guess that this specimen is in fact a separate species within its genus. It does not (or rather not necessarily... it happens ) mean that it is from a different genus or even hybridised with one (remember, this sort of DNA does not mix ma and pa but remains the one of the mother). Also, we know that hops is the closest relative of cannabis and we expect hops to show on such a 'map'. True, I don't know the details on how there can be more similarities with distant relatives and more differences with its closest kin but I have seen that strange effect several times with other species...

Bottom line is, there are several species or subspecies within the genus Cannabis. Can't say more cause I haven't read the publication in detail nor know those by Hillig by heart.