Not sure what this is, any ideas?

Hey guys, I've been having terrible issues in my grow and its beating me down. This happens and odd issues and slow growth happens as the plants progress. Flowers never get big, full ,and dense.

I use the Botanicare line at about label strength. I've tried watering to runoff in the past and things seem to get worse. I've been watering just enough to have plants dry out in a couple days.

I think this may be a carbonate issue from using a small amount of very hard tap water ( mixed with 90% RO) and about 3-4 ml gallon of Cal mag+. Or excess carbonate from too much ph up (potassium carbonate) due to acidic pure blend pro.

Or possibly a virus or pest issue. The basement the grow is in almost certainly has had water damage before.

It kind of looks like a Mag deficiency or maybe P issue. Could be a lockout.

I grow in sunshine 4 with extra perlite. Am thinking of adding dolomite to care for pH instead of using pH up.

Looking for some ideas or help. Kind of at a loss here.

If pH and the feed is in line, check root and stem health. Poor root growth, discoloration and slow vegetative growth (possible pythium). Stems, brown discoloration, may need dissection to see it (possible fusarium).

I've seen similar issues which were possibly due to pythium but in coco. This is after banging my head against the wall trying to adjust feed, nutes, pH, measuring runoff for months. When at their worst, they'd start yellowing and droop heavy in addition to the intervenal chlorosis. Basement and possibly lower temps don't help, and more watering when a root issues are present just makes it worse.

They cleared up when using a beneficial tea. Earthworm castings, some sort of myco product (great white, oregonism, etc), and some beneficial bacteria (hydroguard, etc). Brew a tea for 36-48 hours with some molasses and use at 1 cup tea/gal.

Hope this helps

Looks like mg shortage. The yellowing of the leaves is a classic sign. Try foliage spraying with Epsom salts 1tsp / gal. Through in a drop of dish soap so it covers the leaves. This alone doesn’t explain yield issues

Tell us about your lights? I haven't ever used LEDs
myself but I think I recall talk of them causing increased demand for cal mag. If I let plants get too close to metal halide veg lights they start showing mag deficiency despite the soil being full of those elements.

I would never use PH up in organic soil, definitely rather use dolomite lime and oyster shell flour. What makes you think the pure blend pro is acidic in the first place?

ballplayer 2 said:

I use the Botanicare line at about label strength.

Click to expand...

The problem is that Botanicare is in the business of selling liquid nutrients, and you're in the business of growing plants.

I would:

1. Flush the soil
2. Repot into larger pots with low nutrient concentration soil touching the rootball. This creates more space for the roots to grow - doing so is important in soil based/organic grows.
3. Feed with 0.4 EC of Bloom formula and 0.1 EC of Epsom Salt (MgSO4) - the extra phosphorus will stimulate root growth. This forms the basis of more and healthier plant growth. Right now, think of it as you being in the business of growing more roots. The magnesium in the Epsom Salt ensures healthy phototropic leaves, and magnesium also helps in the uptake of nitrogen which means you should use less nitrogen.

Better yet use one of the water only dry amendment organic soil recipes on this site and kiss all those issues goodbye!

You will have better herb and save money. Win win!!

Hey guys really appreciate all the feedback given so far. Ill attempt to address questions you have raised and pose a few myself most likely.

My root growth doesn't seem to be up to snuff, and is less robust than I've had in the past. Even after extra long veg periods my root growth is just ok at best. I dont notice any rot or brown roots at transplant...if there are brown roots, there aren't many, certainly not rampant. I supplement with Mykos and Azos.

Tanzanian magic: im going to try what you say. Im just scared because I've run into severe issues with Pure Blend Pro being used at half strength. Deficiencies galore, super stretched out plants, hermies, and plants yielding virtually no flowers. Last cycle I went label rate+ and is the closest I've been to usable flowers in a year. Its ugly.

I have been supplementing with Ca/Mg + and 1/4 tsp Epsom per gallon. I can't seem to avoid this deficiency/disease. Its pretty much the same one every time. This is what shows up 1st, then I get additional issues trying to fix this problem.

Are you saying I should be able to run far less than label rate with Botanicare? Do you have any Ec suggestions for each stage of plant growth?

This is present on most fan leaves. However it seems to be less present on new growth on branches.

Moses im currently running under hps/mh/and LED. I've had the same issue under only HID lights. These particular plants are under HO fluorescent lights in veg about a foot or so away.

My nutrient uptake just doesn't seem to be occurring like it should. My plants appear both dark green and washed out at the same time if that makes sense. I had to use a decent amount of nutes on seedlings just to get them to grow. If I don't fertilize seedlings I get nasty whirled, and deformed growth...that takes like a month to get on track and sometimes never does.

I've tried everything, including dry mixes from the site here. Nothing works for me. I have Fox farm dry amendments, all sorts of guano, meals, commercially available water only soils. Nothing seems to help. I will gladly try any mix that is simple to make and care for...lord knows I have plenty of amendments. 1 of my current plants actually has dry amendments in it, but is still showing these issues.

I thought it was mites, but I've scoped with a 40x loupe and don't see anything that moves. My pistils don't get burned when I fertilize stronger...but often do burn and hermie when using half label rate or so. The yield on those plants was likely less than 15 grams...my yields in general are maybe 25% of what they should, perhaps less.

I almost think its environmental. I'm planning on starting another grow at another house just to see if anything goes better over there. Will start that in about a month.

I'm thinking...as you guys have said my issues are lockout, imbalance, or salt buildup.

In RO water, and using a peat based medium what is the minimum Cal mag? Maybe like 0.2 EC and a little epsom. Then maybe just use base nutrient working my way up to 1.1 or 1.2 of base nute.

I'm kind of at a loss, as ive tried using half label rate and full label rate with very little success. Im thinking maybe I've got too much calcium from cal mag and its blocking mag uptake. Plus too much carbonate from ph up. I will be amending future medium with dolomite.

I'm thinking of running my ph higher if possible as well maybe trying to get it around 6.6-6.8.

Anything else you guys can think of?

I'm willing to try super soils...but have had zero success with them b4. Not sure if there just isn't enough nutes available or what. I really don't have a good place to get the soil activating tho.

Thank you for all the help

The clones in the photos don't look that bad, there is a mag issue of some sort but they have bright green new growth and look robust.

Can you post pics of the flowering plants in different stages?

why are you ph'ing PBP? isn't it supposed to be an organic source of nutrients?


i wouldn't add ph up, and if i did it would be in the form of silica (such as dyna gro's protekt). you can add only a drop or two per gallon of water if you want to continue ph'ing and it will make your plants stems much stronger and the plant more drought resistant.




why don't you lightly topdress with dolomitic lime (preferably crushed) and work it in a little or add a little media on top of it? usually 1-2 TBS per gallon of media. this may take 2-3 weeks before it breaks down, though.





while you're at it, top dress in some kelp meal and worm castings - which will cover almost any micro deficiency you could have.



which bottle of PBP are you using? the only one with a decent NPK is the grow bottle: in container plants an npk of 3-1-2 or 3-1-3 works best....all the way through from seedling to finish.

Hey guys, sorry for the delay. So I was at a loss today and had some time on my hands. I scoped my roots and found many, many small clear bugs on my soil.

Ive noted phantom deficiency, leaves cupped up, leaves curled down, burnt tips, stretched stress growth, hermies. Its been forever since I've had a good harvest. I'm guessing I've had root aphids or some kind of damaging soil mite.

The money and time wasted makes me completely sick to my stomach. I've spent time in the garden the could and should have been spent elsewhere. Just at a loss right now.

I know they could be beneficial mites, but I believe that is sort of unlikely given the circumstances.

Ill take a look through the root aphid sticky. I've been through that and the sticky for broad mites countless times. If you all have any suggestions im open to them. Thanks for your time and help

You are using too much nutrient from the get go. Start out using only 1\2 the recommendations of the manufacture. You don't need to add 4 ml of cal mag. because that is too much. IF you are using RO then 2mls of cal mag. a gallon will be plenty. I never use pH up because its too easy to raise the pH by adding just a little tap water. If I have 4 gallons of mix that is too acidic, then I will just add 1/4 to 1/2 a cup or 250 to 500 mls of tap water and will raise the pH. Be careful because its easy to over do it. Your plant is suffering from nutrient lock-out because of too much nutrient.

I'm quite sure that root aphids have been my issue the entire time...which is so fucked up...its literally been like 10 years. The version I have is tiny clear and rounded behind. The only clue i had was a random "gnat" here or there...I finally found one that looked too round to be a fungus gnat. I couldn't see the root aphid tailpipes well1, but it was surely too round to be a gnat.

These fucking things have cost me so much in rare genetics, supplies, electricity, and time. Just insane furious right now, id love to know what they came in on.

Most all plants have shown creeping magnesium deficiency, along with other oddities. Other signs are leaves cupped up, ram horned down, nute burned, dark green etc. Im guessing these are due severe uptake issues caused by damaged, diseased roots.

Any personal experiences battling root aphids?

ballplayer 2 said:

I'm quite sure that root aphids have been my issue the entire time...which is so fucked up...its literally been like 10 years. The version I have is tiny clear and rounded behind. The only clue i had was a random "gnat" here or there...I finally found one that looked too round to be a fungus gnat. I couldn't see the root aphid tailpipes well1, but it was surely too round to be a gnat.

These fucking things have cost me so much in rare genetics, supplies, electricity, and time. Just insane furious right now, id love to know what they came in on.

Most all plants have shown creeping magnesium deficiency, along with other oddities. Other signs are leaves cupped up, ram horned down, nute burned, dark green etc. Im guessing these are due severe uptake issues caused by damaged, diseased roots.

Any personal experiences battling root aphids?

Click to expand...

I battled root aphids in a grapefruit tree here, in our living room, about a year or 2 ago. Only insect I ever surrendered to. And I mean SURRENDERED.

After trying to use ONLY organic and esp. living organisms to treat pests, etc., and I tried MANY resources. With the root aphids, I finally amped up the artillery to chemicals.....

All I 'won' in that series of battles, was to essentially witness that they all seemingly flipped me the bird, laughed among themselves, and passed the proverbial pipes and beers around, as they continued on their path toward root and vegetative destruction.

"A man's -got- to know his limitations." (Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry)

"I'm not worthy." (Wayne & Garth)

Nothing worked for you moose? I'm assuming they may be on some fir trees i have in my backyard and find their way into my house.

I'm assuming you tried nematodes, azadirachtin, imid, Botanigard, pyrethrins, grandevo, and venerate? I have all those things on hand except nematodes and will be deploying them.

I am also probably going to look into another spot to get started, but am afraid ill bring the root aphids with. Obviously I won't be bring plants from one place to another. I Will buy new containers, soil, etc. I will probably end up cooking any soil I use before I get started. Anybody know what a safe and effective temp is for cooking soil? I figured 150 would be safe and effective, not sure tho, never did it before.

You need to positively diagnose first. Root aphids are not clear at all. Have you seen flyers?

Crawlers will be visible all over the edge of the containers and on lower stems of the plants, sometimes in such numbers you can't understand where they are coming from.

Why don't you post pics of the damage, and we can assist you?

Yes, I have seen and caught fliers. I couldn't positively identify cornicles...but the body was bulbous, not remotely like a gnat. I guarantee these are root aphids. The bugs on my roots are white/clear with a bulbous behind. I have seen what looks like a spec of sugar on stems...guessing either honeydew or an egg.

My only successful grow i treated with merit 75 and azatrol, grandevo, and venerate. Then got lazy and figured it was probably nothing. Next harvest was diminished, from then on has been a full on crash...15% of what I should harvest.

Pics will follow

Root aphid damage

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