Your opnion is needed about ethics

What is your stand on seed making ethics? If you have questions please add them, If you somebody with answers, add them, all are welcome!!!

Do you think its okay for a seed maker to classify a strain as "rare" and sell the seeds at a high price because of the "rare" label? Even though they have the ability to make more of these seeds and make it so they are not so "rare"...

Do you think at least some work needs to be done and a thought out goal for the strain needs to be in place and accomplished before it could even command a high price? Or even before being put on the market?

What do you think about people poisoning a clone only female making male flowers to pollinate another clone only female? Or to pollinate another of the same or similar bred clone only? Do you think they should at least put these plants through many stress tests before doing this type of seed making? Is it all about the names in the female to female cross? Or do they need a goal in mind when making the cross? Is it okay to command a high price for these seeds? Or even put them on the market? Or just let loose as freebees?

If you work a cultivar until you have made something unique to yourself that has been fully tested to the best of your abilities, would it be okay to make female to female seeds as an end product and be able to command a high price for them? Or even put them on the market? Or just let loose as freebees?

Why are so many packs of seed only 10? Why dont you ever see a pack of 50?

Thank you for reading this

IMHO it is criminal to charge high prices for seeds. Rarity should play no part in prices for distributing the sacred seed. Friends online make some of the rarest hybrids imaginable and are given freely. Make frienships and share. Become family and overgrow the facist governments. Peace, Grandpa L

All this other bullshit takes a back seat to legality. Do you see how your jealousy is distracting you from the real issues?

Even_Steven said:

All this other bullshit takes a back seat to legality. Do you see how your jealousy is distracting you from the real issues?

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What bullshit??? What jealousy??? Distracting me??? What real issues???

420247 said:

What bullshit??? What jealousy??? Distracting me??? What real issues???

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Are you serious?

Even_Steven said:

Are you serious?

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No, I'm sure he took no offense.

As to the ethics of the seed sellers, sadly, I have to agree that it's ok for them to only make limited supplies of certain seeds and sell them at whatever price they want. If they price themselves out of the market, other breeders will suddenly become more appealing and shit will balance itself in the end. It's the free market dude, and you can't make choices for other people.

Let the assholes show themselves to me outright, so I can appreciate the good deals later on. I enjoy a solid reach-a-round just like the rest of ya.

Now, if I was the one making the seeds, I'd try my best to make them as affordable as possible and get them out to as many people as possible. Let your work spread, grow, mingle and breed so that there will always be something you did left here. (Plus open pollination with plants can sometimes make you money, but with humans, it only costs it
)

Grandpa L said:

IMHO it is criminal to charge high prices for seeds. Rarity should play no part in prices for distributing the sacred seed. Friends online make some of the rarest hybrids imaginable and are given freely. Make frienships and share. Become family and overgrow the facist governments. Peace, Grandpa L

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So true .......This is why I start makin' my own beans!
Used to always pay at least $75-$125 per pack & now you can get good genes for $35-$50. i.e. Sannie,Cannacopia

420247 said:

What is your stand on seed making ethics? If you have questions please add them, If you somebody with answers, add them, all are welcome!!!

Do you think its okay for a seed maker to classify a strain as "rare" and sell the seeds at a high price because of the "rare" label? Even though they have the ability to make more of these seeds and make it so they are not so "rare"...

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Selling 'rare' seeds at a higher price is a racket unless the seeds are really out of production. Price should be based on the quality of the seeds and the amount of seeds per mother plant, imho.

Do you think at least some work needs to be done and a thought out goal for the strain needs to be in place and accomplished before it could even command a high price? Or even before being put on the market?

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I think that the seeds should be priced according to quality and the amount of seeds a mother plant produces. I think that seeds can go to market any time, as long as they are accurately described/represented. As long as the origin of the parents is accurate, and there is honesty about the testing/lack of testing, there is nothing at all unethical about marketing them.

What do you think about people poisoning a clone only female making male flowers to pollinate another clone only female? Or to pollinate another of the same or similar bred clone only? Do you think they should at least put these plants through many stress tests before doing this type of seed making? Is it all about the names in the female to female cross? Or do they need a goal in mind when making the cross? Is it okay to command a high price for these seeds? Or even put them on the market? Or just let loose as freebees?

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I personally do not 'trust' Fem'd seed as much, but as far as ethics... If the seeds are accurately and honestly represented as exactly what they are, and the market forces allow for a certain price based on that (i.e. supply/demand), then it is neither unfair nor unethical imho...

If you work a cultivar until you have made something unique to yourself that has been fully tested to the best of your abilities, would it be okay to make female to female seeds as an end product and be able to command a high price for them? Or even put them on the market? Or just let loose as freebees?

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As long as they are represented accurately, and purchasers are happy with what they paid, it's all good.

Why are so many packs of seed only 10? Why dont you ever see a pack of 50?

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10 is the number on which our system of counting is based. I like using a dozen, like eggs or doughnuts... though it's usually a 'baker's dozen' in my packs. I've seen 15 packs. If one wanted 50 seeds, buying multiple packs is simple math.

Thank you for reading this

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You're welcome.

yeah ive been wondering about this for a while, most of the breeders who sell seeds at high prices have the ablility to make unlimited batches of those seeds, wouldent it be more profitable if they sold at a more reasonable price to everybody as opposed to selling for alot to only a select few, who have the $?...... now that i think about it, anyone with a 600W and hype could create enough "limited" "one time only" seedbatches to make a fortune.

"one time only" seed batches are a totally different story, imho...
There is a limited amount of space in my gardens. I can only keep 'x' number of mothers/fathers. I may want to do a seed project with an elite mother I run across, but may not be keeping her in he stable. Most of the time when I do this, the seeds are for my personal collection, and whatever I have above what I want go into seedbay.

Run's done with specific father's which are not kept are another example.

People sharing is all well and good... I give away lots, and think others should as well... but I also think that everyone should be justly compensated for their time, space, and effort... Who here goes to work every day for free? Even if you enjoy your job, and find it absolutely fulfilling, do you do it for free? I wish I could hire employees with the same work ethic you want seed makers to adopt... overhead would go way down... ;D

Grat3fulh3ad said:

People sharing is all well and good... I give away lots, and think others should as well... but I also think that everyone should be justly compensated for their time, space, and effort... Who here goes to work every day for free? Even if you enjoy your job, and find it absolutely fulfilling, do you do it for free? I wish I could hire employees with the same work ethic you want seed makers to adopt... overhead would go way down... ;D

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This is an important point, and a double standard that I see projected from consumers onto various businesses (not simply seed makers, but all walks of life). It's this idea that the time put in by the person offering the service isn't as valuable as the time the customer occupies. It's disrespectful and selfish, and these people rarely come from a stance of reason.

Having grown up in business my whole life, you come across this type of person A LOT (actually not really, they're not the majority, but god damned do you always seem to remember them), and it can become extremely frustrating watching these people lie to your face only so they can profit from it (getting free shit or whatever).

Flip the coin, and of course, there are these same types of people RUNNING the businesses. A lot of people will simply just have opposite morals, beliefs and ways of going about life relative to you (and me, and everyone).

I could go on for a long time, as you've opened the proverbial can of worms by using the word 'ethics'. But long story short, Grat3fulh3ad hit the nail on the head for the way I view the situation. As a seed maker, be honest to the consumer, price them at what they feel will sell and ensure quality as much as they can.

As a consumer, it's your money, this is the free market, so you find the breeders with the best rep for honesty of product, that's within your price range, and maybe buy them. It's the consumers money, so it's up to the consumer to be a mature, informed adult when deciding where to spend that money.

The best part about it all is, there are enough breeders that you should at least find ONE that you seem to share the same tastes, principles and ideas.

Good luck, friend

PS: Sharing is caring

Ethics: If it feels wrong, it probably is.

Honest with genetic info, breed away from hermies.

The more work that you put in, the more you can charge. I have NO PROBLEM paying $10 per seed from breeders that I respect, but at the same time, there are co's that just make crosses (like 75% of US, lol) and think they deserve the same $$. I don't see how charging $2-3 per seed isn't an acceptable profit margin. The better breeders deserve (and usually get) more$ IMO.

EDIT - There is a breeder that I puSH hArd eNough, so I won'T shout hIm out here. He drops 17+ seeds per pack, which is a treat. Also backs em w/great cust svc

And with $3.00 a seed being acceptable profit, remember that the seller only gets 60% of an auction on seedbay, and breeders who vend on seedboutique and sell larger numbers get smaller profit margins than that, so let's average a breeder's percentage of gross at 50%. That makes a 12 pack of seeds of a high quality cross worth roughly $72.00 retail.

Like barletta said one of the most important things is Honesty about genetic makeup of strains . Apart from lots experience , 'proper' breeding needs , good facilities that can support large number of individuals for selection , ..plus..testing the progeny when you select.. Most breeder nowadays don't only do hack-closet-breeds but sell untested products as well.

Obviously all strains in the marked will grow bud that will get you more or less high.. No seedbank sells strains that will produce bud with zero potency..But it so difficult to find strains that are truly exceptional and worth keeping.

Personally I don't think that good quality genetics should be sold expensively just cause they are 'good' ... but if they are sold expensively because the were bred properly , which means high cost and lots of effort involved, then this justifies the price.Moreover if the extra buck I pay is reinvested in the making of more special genetics for me to enjoy in the future , then..yes I m willing to pay 2x ,even 3x times the cost of cheap seeds.

High price doesn't necessarily mean good quality genetics though . So you need to be careful when you buy expensive strains.. So ,always, before making a purchase try to learn as much as you can about the Seedbank , and read as many reports on the strain as you can before you decide.

Barletta made a good point. It is very important to check on Backup/Support Service of the SeedCo as well , meaning what really happens if something goes wrong.Most seed cos don't take any responsibility if there is a prob with their product so if you pay a lot for a pack of seeds make sure that you will at least be able to receive some help if something goes wrong.

Most people dont think ahead and dont take into account what will be best for them in the long run. A grow costs a lot and what you end up with is mostly determined by the genetics used.. ..So.. I d rather pay few bucks extra for good genetics and go with a proven strain that will ensure that I will get one or more lifetime keepers. Then I can enjoy the keeper plant/s over and over again for months ..years.. till I get bored of it..without the need to pay again to find something good. Moreover quality genetics usually means that when you buy a pack of seeds most if not all will be very good plants that produce high quality smoke.Most strains in the market will give a great plant if you use many seeds ..but there very few strains that give only great plants.

Oh and making feminized Seeds are far from 'proper Breeding' at least the way I perceive things.. Good quality seeds for me don't 'have a price' , but if the high price is justified and I end really satisfied with the product I don't really mind cause I know I ve won in the long term...

Like Grat3fulh3ad said breeders get around 50% of the final retail price so if you take that into account , even expensive seeds are not sold by the breeders at very high price.

Ok, and to me (the retail consumer) that's $6 per. Middle of the road. Well worth it for your beans my friend. I also have no problem with charging more for longer flowering mothers, if you have to put $$$ away for legal/security, etc...

I am just not down with people doing crosses only, never 'working' anything, and charging like they are a BREEDER. Those co's are out there, and I won't mention any names... Joey weed?? GREAT Idea Honest f2's $3-5 per. How about the companies that flat out lie about lineage for $10+per???

barletta said:

How about the companies that flat out lie about lineage for $10+per???

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Or how about breeding plants you've never grown out first, at 8-12 per?

Preaching to the coco coir bro.

I'll pay up to $20 A seed no problem and I think People like Grat3ful and many others are way under payed for the risk they take and the fine genetics they put in my path .

l33t said:

Like barletta said one of the most important things is Honesty about genetic makeup of strains . Apart from lots experience , 'proper' breeding needs , good facilities that can support large number of individuals for selection , ..plus..testing the progeny when you select.. Most breeder nowadays don't only do hack-closet-breeds but sell untested products as well.

Obviously all strains in the marked will grow bud that will get you more or less high.. No seedbank sells strains that will produce bud with zero potency..But it so difficult to find strains that are truly exceptional and worth keeping.

Personally I don't think that good quality genetics should be sold expensively just cause they are 'good' ... but if they are sold expensively because the were bred properly , which means high cost and lots of effort involved, then this justifies the price.

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I do think that an exceptional strain, a strain that you only see raves about, then it is by it's nature worth more than a strain which is 'hit or miss' or a strain where one has to buy many packs to find a mother of a certain quality. Any other product on the market which is superior to competing products is worth more regardless of manufacturing costs. By the same token, a pack of seeds with a 90% chance of finding a keeper quality mom is absolutely worth more than a pack of seeds with a 20% chance of finding a keeper quality mom.

Moreover if the extra buck I pay is reinvested in the making of more special genetics for me to enjoy in the future , then..yes I m willing to pay 2x ,even 3x times the cost of cheap seeds.

High price doesn't necessarily mean good quality genetics though . So you need to be careful when you buy expensive strains.. So ,always, before making a purchase try to learn as much as you can about the Seedbank , and read as many reports on the strain as you can before you decide.

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CAVEAT EMPTOR

Barletta made a good point. It is very important to check on Backup/Support Service of the SeedCo as well , meaning what really happens if something goes wrong.Most seed cos don't take any responsibility if there is a prob with their product so if you pay a lot for a pack of seeds make sure that you will at least be able to receive some help if something goes wrong.

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Ever checked my support policy?

Most people dont think ahead and dont take into account what will be best for them in the long run. A grow costs a lot and what you end up with is mostly determined by the genetics used.. ..So.. I d rather pay few bucks extra for good genetics and go with a proven strain that will ensure that I will get one or more lifetime keepers. Then I can enjoy the keeper plant/s over and over again for months ..years.. till I get bored of it..without the need to pay again to find something good. Moreover quality genetics usually means that when you buy a pack of seeds most if not all will be very good plants that produce high quality smoke.Most strains in the market will give a great plant if you use many seeds ..but there very few strains that give only great plants.

Oh and making feminized Seeds are far from 'proper Breeding' at least the way I perceive things.. Good quality seeds for me don't 'have a price' , but if the high price is justified and I end really satisfied with the product I don't really mind cause I know I ve won in the long term...

Like Grat3fulh3ad said breeders get around 50% of the final retail price so if you take that into account , even expensive seeds are not sold by the breeders at very high price.

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What bugs me is that feminised seeds cost more than standard seeds, that is unethical imho... A 'sketchy' product sold at a premium...

''Joey weed?? GREAT Idea Honest f2's $3-5 per. How about the companies that flat out lie about lineage for $10+per???''

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Barletta

I agree if a seed co uses other breeders' genetics to breed with but states that their product is F2 then this means honesty. and as a customer I don't have any serious prob with that since at least I will know what I will get when I buy f2s . Its indeed when seed cos start to lie and claim that they are the original breeders of the strain when they are not that starts the misinformation flowing.

One thing to keep in mind though is that these hack-breeds are one of the reasons we have thousands of strains that have nothing special to them today.

Generally a breeders role should be to create something special and something new . Nothing bad on reworking worked lines , if done properly , but should be more than that . For instance none of these hack/closet breeders search for landrace seeds to use as a starting point. They just rely on others work and they 'add' nothing new/special to the market..

Proper breeding ivolves a certain cost , and most hack breeds by being cheap they become the new growers' preference .. They don't care about bringing something new/special to the growers , they only want to sell as much as they can and by selling high yielding indica hybrids that give OK plants, most growers and specifically newbies fall into their trap..
Then they think they ve grown the strain they wanted but in reality what they grow is a hacked version of the real thing..which usually is far from the real thing and thats sad cause they get a false impression and don't judge a strain properly.

this results in more and more 'useless' genetics flow into in the market..
Dont you all think we have enough hacked versions of SK , WW , NL etc etc ?
Unfortunately to get out of this loophole people need to become more educated.. and this anit easy.. and most likely never happen..


Grat3fulh3ad,

What bugs me is that feminised seeds cost more than standard seeds, that is unethical imho... A 'sketchy' product sold at a premium...

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I ll second that.