are they sick?

gramsci.antonio · Nov 22, 2007

This time i post when i start thinking that my plants has problems... otherwise they get unhealthy and the growth will compromise... Whenever i'll solve this problem i'll start problem.

The links to the images are to another forum, because now i can't upload photos here

I'm under 200 W Blue CFL, Canna Coco A+B, AN root stimulator. Feminized seeds of DP Flo in coco coir.

here's my watering regime:

- How often?

On a daily basis

- How much?

I give 1 liter to my single plant.

- Specs of the water

Sometimes RO water 30 ppm@7.8 ph, lowered @5.2 ph, sometimes i mix water with tap water up to reach 170 ppm.

Previous i used my rock hard water @ 300 ppm

- How big pots?

around 25 liters

- PPM/uS/EC in?

usually 800-1000 ppm

- Ph in?

5.8-6.2, min 5.4, max 6.7

- PPM/uS/EC out?

Around 20% less, 580-800

- Ph out?

the same, sometimes a bit higher, max 0.5 more than in

- Any notes?

I wait to water till some of the top coc start to dry, like when they change color

I've had a MG issue, wich i (think) solved giving the plant 2.5 ml of a solution with 6% of MgO. Is this too few magnesium?

I have to say that i tried to scrog them, but the holes in the net were too small so i switched to something like a kind of LST, just bending the plants to distribute better the light and keep from stretching too much. Maybe i don't treated very well the ladies

First a general look @ the plants: 8 internodes @ day 42 of vegging:

http://forum.grasscity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=88378&stc=1&d=1195730532

Here's the symptoms:

http://forum.grasscity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=88379&stc=1&d=1195730532

a) Leaf with a broken white spot. You can't see well from the photo but it has a strange texture, like the skin of your grandma.

http://forum.grasscity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=88377&stc=1&d=1195730532

b) very dark green inside, fade to a pale yellow on the border.

http://forum.grasscity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=88382&stc=1&d=1195731666

c) Yellow and brown tips. It thought it was caused by MG deficiency, but up to now i can't say if the symptoms increased. For sure they don't decreased.

http://forum.grasscity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=88380&stc=1&d=1195730532

d) While training i think a opened a fissure in the trunk. I hope it's not serious. Maybe you have to look carefully to see it.

Note: are the stems in this photo red? i can't tell because i dunno how they should be, but i read that red stems are bad

I'm warried that i gave too few or too much Mg

10k · Nov 22, 2007

Sorry to say this, but I feel you'd be better off just working with whatever help you're already receiving at Grasscity since you have your pictures there.

On the other hand, I'm sure you'd get very fine advice here if you'd just upload your photos here to icmag, so folks don't have to go offsite to look.

From your description though, without even looking at the pictures, I can say that you're probably overwatering AND overferting the plant. A cannabis plant under a 200w CFL will not need anywhere near as much feeding as one under an HID light. You are watering every day, dumping a liter a day into a 25 liter planter and its growth rate sounds very stunted with only 8 nodes after 42 days vegging.

Looking forward to seeing photos here at icmag.

Blackvelvet · Nov 22, 2007

gramsci.antonio said:
I've had a MG issue, wich i (think) solved giving the plant 2.5 ml of a solution with 6% of MgO. Is this too few magnesium?

Your giving the plants about 24 ppm magnesium more if your adding 2.5ml to a gallon(3.8 liters) of water.

Assuming 1 gram = 1 ml...
2.5ml divided by 3.8 liters = .65 grams per L
.65g x 6% MgO = .039 grams MgO
,039 g x 1000 = 39 mg per liter MgO or 39 ppms
Molecular weight of Mg is about 24 and oxygen is 16
24/16+24 = 24/40 x 39 ppms MgO = 24 ppms Mg
Got it? LOL

That sounds reasonable to boost your mag levels if your including that with every watering. You could use 10x that amount once if you want. If you get in a real bind with mag problems, try a foliar spray of 1 teaspoon epsom salts per quart of water (.95 L). Spray both sides of the leave till dripping. Avoid spraying near a hot light bulb to avoid shattering.

Sorry I could not look at your plants...it ask me to log in to grasscity.

Happy Thanksgiving icmag

gramsci.antonio · Nov 22, 2007

10k said:
Sorry to say this, but I feel you'd be better off just working with whatever help you're already receiving at Grasscity since you have your pictures there.

On the other hand, I'm sure you'd get very fine advice here if you'd just upload your photos here to icmag, so folks don't have to go offsite to look.

From your description though, without even looking at the pictures, I can say that you're probably overwatering AND overferting the plant. A cannabis plant under a 200w CFL will not need anywhere near as much feeding as one under an HID light.

i swear dude i would posto photo but as i said icmag now isn't accepting any picture

Unable to read the format of file: /data/web/icmag/icmag.com/www/gallery/data/500/3301200015.jpg

You are watering every day, dumping a liter a day into a 25 liter planter and its growth rate sounds very stunted with only 8 nodes after 42 days vegging.

Looking forward to seeing photos here at icmag.

so i have to lower ferts? But i've never been high... and i water when the top of the soil start to chang color... plants drink as hell!

gramsci.antonio · Nov 22, 2007

i want to add something, while i wait to have the chance of posting my images:

a) I've ferted for the first month with 300 ppm tap water (ROCK HARD), and my ph swinged a bit. I was unexperienced

b) How much should i fert and water?

c) I noted while scrogging that if a two leaf got one below the other very very close, the leaf under would result a bit damaged...

I've some old photos, they will make you able to understand:

Before magnesium, you can see in the red dot on the right a strange white spot.

After magnesium, strange burns:

gramsci.antonio · Nov 22, 2007

Blackvelvet said:
That sounds reasonable to boost your mag levels if your including that with every watering.

No i gave it ONCE.

First 1.5 ml in a 2 liter solution, wait one day and a half, then i watered again with a 1 liter, then i waited one day, and then i again i watered with 1.5 liters and 1 ml of Mag.

Should i give more?

Sorry for my really poor english

Edit: I'm really warried because those are feminized seeds... with all this stress they can turn hermies...

gramsci.antonio · Nov 22, 2007

dudes i did a shit thing:

I take some RO water, added JUST magnesium and corrected ph.

1/4 of liter @ 800 ppm @ 5.3 ph.

I sprayed half of this on the leaves, and half on the soil.

And then i turned off the light. In one hour i'll turn on again.

I hope this won't kill them.

edit: consideration

i read this on the forum:

Having to little of Potassium in your plants causes the plants leaves to show retarded growth and show a scorched tip and edges around the leaves. Plants may stretch and your branches can be easily broken or weak. Don’t get this deficiency confused with iron, because it almost acts like iron but to tell the difference in the two is: for potassium the tips of the leaves curl and the edges burn and die. Older leaves may show a red color and leaves could curl upwards. Dead patches (Necrosis) can happen on the margins of larger fan leaves thus, the leaves will eventually die off and turn brown. The Older leaves will show different patches of color (mottle) and turn yellow between the veins, following by whole leaves that turn dark yellow and die. The plants overall growth slows down, mostly when they are in vegetative stage. To little amount of potassium also slows the growth of buds during flowering stages. Dark edges will appear around the edges of the leaf when the deficiency is starting to happen. When your Relative humidity is low, you can almost bet your going to soon get a potassium deficiency from your plants perspiration.
Potassium can get poorly absorbed when having too much Calcium or ammonium nitrogen, and maybe cold weather. Having to much sodium (Na) causes potassium to be displaced. SO keep those in mind… Parts affected by a Potassium Deficiency are: older leaves and leaf margins.

I had too much calcium in water!

and my some of my leaves look like:

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1134potassiumdef2.jpg

just that the brownish/yellowish is less on the sides and more on the tip of the leaf.

Fu*k: Magnesium gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 2.0-5.7

i gave the foliar feed water @ 5.3 ph. I just ****ed up. The water was useless or, better, harmful.

This plant, showin a zinc deficency, looks similar to one of mine:

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1134Zinc2.jpg

**** i'm going nuts... i'm really warried about my ladies

D

MynameStitch · Nov 23, 2007

Pics? 800 ppms of magnesium and calcium? Dude that's ludicrous; I told you how much to use...

Why did you use that much.... 1/4 of a liter with how much water?

Either way it sounds like it's way to damn much period.

I would have flushed out that medium.

If you are worried about your ladies, maybe you should listen a little better to the instructions people give you.... not being mean or anything.... but we told you how much to use before..... even 10K did....

gramsci.antonio · Nov 23, 2007

MynameStitch said:
Pics? 800 ppms of magnesium and calcium? Dude that's ludicrous; I told you how much to use...

No just magnesium...

yea you told me, but you spoke about epsom salt and grams... and here we don't have epsom salt or dolomite lime or ...

Why did you use that much.... 1/4 of a liter with how much water?

Either way it sounds like it's way to damn much period.

No i gave around 1 ml of a 6% MgO solution in 0.25 liters of water.

Can i be sure now that they DON'T have any more any Mg def?

I would have flushed out that medium.

so you tell me to flush now?

If you are worried about your ladies, maybe you should listen a little better to the instructions people give you.... not being mean or anything.... but we told you how much to use before..... even 10K did....

Yeah! You are right man! be mean... i'm happy you do so because so i learn...

it's that i'm not so clever+i have a problem of comunication=Very dreadful situation!

PeavillePride · Nov 23, 2007

.Hey Bro,this is what i meant as how you can show yer pix.Go to edit and change the url to img and the pic will show up :joint:

MynameStitch · Nov 23, 2007

First post a picture before you do anything......

You should have asked us first before you used it so we could have given you a proper dosage.......

Ok, I was confused the dosage you gave them was ok, but it may have not been enough. I thought you were using a ton of it by the way you were talking... I know you do not speak very good English, so which is why I was asking again I was very confused.

No, do not flush the medium, you did not use the amount you listed I thought you said you had added.....

post pictures......

HeadyPete · Nov 23, 2007

I'm with 10K. You are watering too much. You have to feel the weight of the pot (or get a moisture probe) and know what a dry pot feels like. You cannot water when the top goes dry, that's too soon. You can dry weed out to the point where it starts limping and it will still be fine when you water. When the pot is nice and light, water and leave it. As the plant grows you will need to water sooner as the roots are better able to suck the moisture out of the medium. If you find you are watering everyday and the pot is dry the next day, it's time for a transplant to a bigger pot.

I also think your ph is swinging way too much. Plants do not like this. You need to keep it as stable as possible at 6.5 runoff. I grow in coco too and this is where she likes it. Coco is much closer to neutral ph than acidic peat, so you shouldn't need to adjust ph of your ferts that much.

Other than that I can't help much more unless I see pix to confirm symptoms. Those old photos do next to nothing to help without current pix for context. There are things to look for that you may not realize. I am not going offsite to look at pix and I suggest you post your photos here only for your own safety.

What are you planning on flowering under? 200 cfl will not give you the results that I think you are expecting......You need some hps light, preferably 400watts or more, to grow some good plants. (No offense CFLs out there, as I know you have your grows dialed in, but still no comparison to a HID!)

Don't worry about the English, you are communicating fine. Just keep it simple and try to think of everything you can. You are also inexperienced, nothing to do with being clever. Fortunately we can fix that here!

gramsci.antonio · Nov 23, 2007

thanx to all dude.

I'll post photos as soon as the bug in the site will be fixed

Meanwhile, we can sit down and roll a fat one...

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=NeRkEGIYWlk

gramsci.antonio · Nov 24, 2007

Ok. Now i can upload photos. In this post i organize the photos by symptoms showed:

a) First: A general look at the plants.

Yeah they are short... but very very bushy!!! I trained them a LOT to keep 'em short

b) Yellow/brown tips, dry leaves:

c) Very strange fact. I noticed now. A part of the leaf dry very fast and shrink, diseappering:

d) A kind of yellowing:

d1) Another kind of yellowing:

e) strange white spots

with less light:

f) a photo of the stem. Isn't it red???

gramsci.antonio · Nov 24, 2007

Guys i'm waiting to solve this problem to switch to flowering. I've been vegging for 45 days now... it has been too long, hasn't it?

Today i've bought cannazym, ph up (before i just had ph down) (i don't remember the brand if you want i can check), and canna pk 13/14.

In the next days i'll buy canna boost.

Hope to have any imput to what i have to do. I was thinking to water by tomorrow evening, the soil is drying and the pots are getting lighter

MynameStitch · Nov 24, 2007

That is a normal color purple for cannabis stems; you have a potassium issue in the first picture..... what ppms are you using now and what nutrients are you using now?

How often are you feeding them?

You had no magnesium issues dude...... just potassium; the leaf discoloration is a mutation and I would not worry about that.... thw twisting is caused by ph issues...

800 ppms to 1000 ppms is too high for that plant I would put it down to 600 to 700.....

But it does need more potassium, sounds like maybe a lockout has occured......

gramsci.antonio · Nov 24, 2007

MynameStitch said:
That is a normal color purple for cannabis stems; you have a potassium issue in the first picture..... what ppms are you using now and what nutrients are you using now?

Last: 890 ppm, canna a+b, AN root stimulator, ghe ph down

How often are you feeding them?

around 36 hours

You had no magnesium issues dude...... just potassium; the leaf discoloration is a mutation and I would not worry about that.... thw twisting is caused by ph issues...

Ok i have to give potassium.

And i have to check better ph.

800 ppms to 1000 ppms is too high for that plant I would put it down to 600 to 700.....

You can think it's a small plant.... But it's REALLY bushy, i bended a LOT the principal stem, making it do a circle.

But it does need more potassium, sounds like maybe a lockout has occured......

Can i use p/k 13/14 to save money or i have to buy a specific potassium source?

How much potassium should i give?
How often?
How long will it take to get into flowering?

MynameStitch · Nov 24, 2007

You can give it anything as long as it has potassium in it, you need to give it every feeding... BUT the one you choose should have less P and N since you already have a good N P nutrients...... you do not want to double up.....

Stop using the root stimulator for now, I have seen some issues with that.....
A lot of the stuff has added stuff some nutrients already have and when you use it along with your other nutrients you are actually putting more of few kinds of nutrients in there causing an imbalance....... so stop using the root stimulator for now..... I honestly think AN makes a ton of products that are worthless, they have mostly 8 if that good products that is actually good to buy.

WHat brand of nutrient are you using? Canna pk 13/14 you mean? You want to wait till it has alternating nodes before putting them into flowering; if yours is not an auto strain then the only way it will flower is if you change the lighting cycle from the cycle you have now to 12/12. 12 hours of light on and 12 hours of light off.

Do you know what alternating nodes mean? If yours is an auto strain, when it gets big enough or old enough it will flower by itself with no lighting changes needed.

gramsci.antonio · Nov 24, 2007

MynameStitch said:
You can give it anything as long as it has potassium in it, you need to give it every feeding... BUT the one you choose should have less P and N since you already have a good N P nutrients...... you do not want to double up.....

Ok today i'll go to buy some nutrients with JUST K

Stop using the root stimulator for now, I have seen some issues with that.....
A lot of the stuff has added stuff some nutrients already have and when you use it along with your other nutrients you are actually putting more of few kinds of nutrients in there causing an imbalance....... so stop using the root stimulator for now..... I honestly think AN makes a ton of products that are worthless, they have mostly 8 if that good products that is actually good to buy.

I would have bought canna ryzhotonic but it was out of stock... and AN cost 10 $, ryzho 19 $. I bought it Just to save money and time.

WHat brand of nutrient are you using? Canna pk 13/14 you mean? You want to wait till it has alternating nodes before putting them into flowering; if yours is not an auto strain then the only way it will flower is if you change the lighting cycle from the cycle you have now to 12/12. 12 hours of light on and 12 hours of light off.

Do you know what alternating nodes mean? If yours is an auto strain, when it gets big enough or old enough it will flower by itself with no lighting changes needed.

Mine is no autostrain

anyhow i didn't understand what alternating nodes are... i also googled and searched :'(

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=62336&highlight=alternating+nodes

i can't tell where's the difference... where i have to look? where the trunk divides into stems?

Edit:

taken from the guide:

Potassium can get poorly absorbed when having too much Calcium or ammonium nitrogen, and maybe cold weather. Having to much sodium (Na) causes potassium to be displaced. SO keep those in mind… Parts affected by a Potassium Deficiency are: older leaves and leaf margins.

I had too much calcium and i gave water with sodium for 3 days...

Ok so it's very verosimilar...

Have to water or foliar feed potassium?

How much?

Blackvelvet · Nov 24, 2007

If your ferts already contain potassium, I doubt you have a deficiency. Burned tips and edges might be excess salts. So flush with straight water then reapply your nutrient solution weaker.

Pk 13/14 can be used to add more potassium if "deficiency" symptoms continue.

6ml pk 13-14 per gallon (3.8 liters) of water (in ppms)
n 0
p 103
k 212

are they sick?

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