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"Stable Shatter" (Open Blasting)

So, Hopefully @Gray Wolf will help with this one. We will try and stick in as many details as possible so we can get an end result. We will appreciate as much help, info and instructions as possible. We know theirs information out there. We've read for days. Thus how we know Gray Wolf and other contributors are good ones. We would like to have a single page where someone can look at the variations of one type of style, This one being (Shatter). Now, we'll have to go over what 'consistency' of shatter we're referring to. Some say, "hold it from the bottom" - we're not referring to rock hard slabs. Other say, "if it don't shatter, it don't matter" - now you can have stable, pliable, tangible shatter that will actually shatter if you drop it, yet you can malleable shatter that won't stick to your fingers. This is pure "STABLE" shatter. It meas it has reached its point of being able to change consistency without a forced breaking point. Some people call this "snap-and-pull" but some snap-and-pull is really more malleable and not really shatter. As it will stick to your fingers and if it is room temp, its hard to handle. Whereas stable shatter, can be in a 70F room, be handled and still not become sticky and will still shatter if you drop it (if its a big enough slab) or if you take your dabber and tapping it with a ball point dabber. Now we'll have some images and such of the process (feel free to point out the positives, negatives and suggestions on technique.

1. Dried Material (Dried material in this case has been in sealed jars in dark with temps around 55F and stored for about 3 mos. The material was jarred after being hang dried, trimmed then dried again in strain labeled paper bags for 1 week before being jarred)
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2. Raw Material was packed (Not broken down, not ground up, not scissored, not frozen, not heated (decarboxed, ect.) It was lightly dumped into, then packed down with two fingers, then lightly dumped more material in, then packed down again, until full.
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3. We then used Newport to extract the material onto a pyrex dish. The dish was on top of an aluminum tin over another pyrex filled with water. (We later read the clean plan sand idea from @Gray Wolf, excellent idea) as we know, as many other should, NO WATER IS NEEDED IN YOUR MATERIAL. We minimized this with the tin covering the tray. We kept our temps at 9-35F remaining below 35F at all times, open blasting 447.8g of material. We used 900ml (3 cans) for each packing (around 60g) The temp. was sometimes SET to 300F on the hotplate, (this means that the temp never reached 300F but was SET to at times - to keep the hotplate remain heated since the water was adjusting) but you really have to watch your overall temp of the material. (This could be achieved easier , more reliable by using sand!) We just wanted to keep it in the positive temps to prevent ice forming.
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4. After all material was blasted, both pyrex's were removed from the hotplate and transferred to another table where it remained to purge. As it calmed down (huge bubbles were gone and small ones remained) the temperatures did rise (as the hot water under the tin still remained hot, even without the hot plate) to about 78-85F and as more and more butane was released, it became more of an oil and we removed any impurities that may have been implemented in the process (using a tooth pick or dab tool is fine). As the smaller bubbles slowed and popped and it became less active we reached a temperature near 77F. We POURED it onto unbleached parchment in an outwards circular motion, never to double up or go into the same spot. We had to scrape the sides of the pyrex, from the middle to the outside wall and then upward to get the rest of the oil and we placed it onto the parchment as well.

5. We cut out our parchment to fit inside the oven. The oven was an ambient temp of 92F our oil went down to 75F while transferring from the table to oven. It was kept in the oven for about 3.75 hrs. After 4hrs we re-temped the actual oil at 82F. So, we bumped it up to 95F and let it sit another 40 mins then pulled our muffin. We pulled it as slow as possible (1-3Hg at a time, steadily) as high as we could without huge air pockets bursting, from preventing a collapse. When bubbles did pop we pulled a but faster (5-10Hg) to prevent a collapse until we ended up at 25.5Hg. Where there were a few huge bubbles holding the slab up in the air. These remained for about 5 minutes until they popped and others arose. (Oil temp remained about 85.6-87F)
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6. After our muffin collapsed (big bubbles rupturing, and the muffin falling) it starts to rest at about 1in. where you see activity (small bubbles rupturing) and it holds up by itself and we've got it down to 27Hg staying steady at about 92F (Not actual) 85-87F Actual Oil Temp) It sat at this for about 3 hours then was pulled to 29Hg where it remained until the 18hr spot.
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7. Once the 18 hours spot hit, (Now, "we read" you can do it for 8hrs flip, 8 hours flip ect.) But, we did ours for 18 hours. We will end up flipping 4 times, however, we always like it to run for 15-18 before a first flip. So, we prepare to do our flip. (Temps were about 85-87F) we pulled it out to a mild cold room, waited till the oil got room temp. Slid the parchment to the end of a table and peeled the oil from the paper. Flipped and put back in the oven where it remains for 1 hour until oil reaches even temp (around 80+F) and a new vac is pulled. (We wait until the oil is above 80F, this is to ensure the oil is evenly heated and dispersed when a vac is pulled.) We will pull to 29Hg again where it will sit for 8 hours then another flip. Oven temp is set to 95F. Ambient will reach 95F, while oil will remain at about 85-87F.
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Temp Before Removed to Flip
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Slab before it was Removed for Flip
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Slab on Table before Flip
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Slab Slid on Corner of Table to Remove, Then Flipped
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8. It went into the oven for 1hr at this time (with no vac) Now it will be vac'd slowly until 25Hg. Until the small bubbles that formed again fall off then it will be pulled to 29Hg.
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9. At about 28 hours, our temp set at 94F and read 94F ambient (not oil temp) we released the vac then pulled again. Let sit for another hour, then did it again, let it sit another hour then again pulled another vac. We did this a total of 4 times, until we reached 34hrs. We then removed the slab. This is the end result.
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blazeoneup

The Helpful One
Moderator
Chat Moderator
Veteran
I'm a fan of making a parchment paper bowl and blowing directly into the parchment paper, so I never have to scrap it up from pyrex, this allows me to keep my slab nice and thin, The bigger the parchment bowl the better, It will speed the extraction up bigtime. I try to make the parchment bowl as big as it can be and still fit into the vacuum oven. Keep it nice and level during the initial evaporation to keep it equally spread over the entire parchment bowl. I say bowl but its really a big square container and you just make it by folding the parchment paper to make a square box.

You set the parchment bowl in the pyrex dish blow into paper, then fill another pyrex dish with hot water set the other dish with the paper and extract in and boil it off but then go directly to the vacuum oven without ever scraping or piling it up, then you purge for 1 hr before making it into a patty. This will jump start the purge and knock the time it takes down pretty good because its spread much thinner and more surface area is exposed. Then after 1 hr you pull it out and fold it over on itself to easily make a patty at this point it will already feel stable and can be pulled off the paper and snapped but its still a little ply to it. I usually form the slab slap it back in for 4 hrs and flip, repeat as needed to finish. Just a little tip that has knocked the purge time down for me.

I have tested a few temps, and I've settled with setting the vacuum oven at 105f. Lower added time but noticed no increase in flavor so I stuck with the 105f.
 
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blazeoneup

The Helpful One
Moderator
Chat Moderator
Veteran
Do not spray butane directly onto parchment paper, not safe.

Can you give any evidence? I would like to know exactly what the danger is. So please rather then just state its not safe provide some evidence and explanation thanks. There are also more then 1 type of parchment paper as well. Un coated genuine vegetable parchments safe from my experience and never noticed anything in the lab results. I understand that some parchment paper is coated with silica but they are not all created equal!
 
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flatslabs

Member
Can you give any evidence? I would like to know exactly what the danger is. So please rather then just state its not safe provide some evidence and explanation thanks. There are also more then 1 type of parchment paper as well. Un coated genuine vegetable parchments safe from my experience and never noticed anything in the lab results. I understand that some parchment paper is coated with silica but they are not all created equal!

The majority of parchment paper has a silicone coating, including the "all natural unbleached ones", and silicone is not compatible with butane.

In your original post you certainly did not specify what type of paper you are using to blast on, and this is an open blasting thread so extra scrutiny must be taken for the audience who will read it, and the general consensus in this forum is do not blast onto parchment paper for the reason above. If you have a type of paper that is silicone free, please share it with us as I am sure some here would be interested in it.

The only parcyment paper out there I have been unable to find a solid answer as to a silicone or quilone coating on is the Regency brand natural paper, but I have to question the non-stick properties of parchment in relation to BHO with no silicone coating, isn't that the point? PTFE sheeting is readily available and known safe for the solvents we use.
 

Payaso

Original Editor of ICMagazine
Veteran
Howdy all... moderators are not necessarily BHO experts... in fact, I dislike the stuff so much I don't research it or pretend to be knowledgeable...

I am TOLERANT however (I can hear the chuckles and groans) and the only thing I care about is civilized discussion of techniques and the spreading of knowledge.

One thing I find that the Concentrates section has in common with the Organics section is the amazing strength of will and concentrated egos behind statements made by the various 'experts.'

Seems every one is an expert, and I am glad to see that... cause after seeing a neighbor's house reduced to ruins by BHO experimentation I have come to the conclusion that smoking God's gift in its natural form is best for me... BUDS are the BEST.

But that's just my opinion... so don't go jumping all up and down and getting cranky 'cause I don't share your passion. I feel strongly enough about personal liberty and pursuit of happiness that if you do it safely, there is no reason for alarm.
 

Chonkski

Member
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see more of your guys' presence. I am just severely suprised in the lack of knowledge on the subject. When this is one of the mecha's of information. Here we have a moderator asking for proof and resource, when its touted through these pages. No offense to blazeoneup, but I personally feel that we deserve a little more credit over here in concentrates. I also feel the moderators have a lot of learning to do, because concentrates are the true form of administering medical treatments, I can't agree with "buds are the best" when it comes to things like Severe Epilepsy in children 10 years and younger. Who have made miracle stories out of using cannabinoid treatments. And that is just one example to start with.

Please don't take me as an asshole, hater, Or a troll. I am just very passionate when it comes to this type of knowledge.
 

BrainChild

Member
Thanks for that explanation Payaso! One reason info on here is so important, to educate! I think you'd find a lot of people who make BHO also have feelings of disdain for those who do it with such ignorance and incompetence. If your neighbor had been reading IC MAG they probably wouldn't have burned the house down...

EDIT: it would be great to have a grey wolf, permaculture, Regis Philburn, Chronski, Flat Slabs, A6 Grower, or Kcar as a mod! (so many other's too)
 
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BrainChild

Member
Also, on the topic:
http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance

Butane and silicone have a D rating in the Chemical Compatibility Database...
D = Severe Effect, not recommended for ANY use.

Not sure about the uncoated, but why not go with the standard for chemical resistance, PTFE?
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Also I'm always interested in others purge times, temps and reasoning. It's hard to get pentane and isopentane out at 34 hrs purge time with your temps topping out at 94F and using canned or undistilled solvent.

http://analytical360.com/m/expired/294956 --->example of open blasted sample, this was purged 48 hrs with one flip @100F. Not by me, a friend on another forum who shared.

And then scary results like this: http://analytical360.com/m/expired/301863 which tops out a whopping 61880 PPM of various solvents. I just got this one of a360's site, I don't know anything about the process.

And now this one: http://analytical360.com/m/expired/299877 which shows that using distilled solvent and proper techniques you can achieve great results. This was a result shared by dopecooks awhile back.
 

dybert

Active member
Also, on the topic:
http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance

Butane and silicone have a D rating in the Chemical Compatibility Database...
D = Severe Effect, not recommended for ANY use.

Not sure about the uncoated, but why not go with the standard for chemical resistance, PTFE?
====
Also I'm always interested in others purge times, temps and reasoning. It's hard to get pentane and isopentane out at 34 hrs purge time with your temps topping out at 94F and using canned or undistilled solvent.

http://analytical360.com/m/expired/294956 --->example of open blasted sample, this was purged 48 hrs with one flip @100F. Not by me, a friend on another forum who shared.

And then scary results like this: http://analytical360.com/m/expired/301863 which tops out a whopping 61880 PPM of various solvents. I just got this one of a360's site, I don't know anything about the process.

And now this one: http://analytical360.com/m/expired/299877 which shows that using distilled solvent and proper techniques you can achieve great results. This was a result shared by dopecooks awhile back.

The only reason it has a D rating is because it makes silicone swell. It does NOT dissolve, or leech silicone out. It simply makes it swell. (which is a problem for silicone gaskets exposed to butane but not for blasting onto).
 

flatslabs

Member
Leeching issue aside, there is the issue of silicone becoming brittle at cold temperatures and / or the coating flaking off (or swelling) and ending up in your product. This is admittedly less of a concern for those using silicone pads or trays over parchment.

But the question remains, why use it when there are much better alternatives?
 
Ok, so I feel the last 5 comments need to be removed. It's totally getting off topic already. Including this one when the others are removed. Blasting on parchment is a no-no in any case. It does 'leech' due to temps and chemical changes in compound structure. Theirs no need for it when there are other alternatives. Use a pyrex cup. It will pour easily and smoothly. Blast straight into it, then pour onto parchment. (Your oil should be around 80F when poured)
 
====
Also I'm always interested in others purge times, temps and reasoning. It's hard to get pentane and isopentane out at 34 hrs purge time with your temps topping out at 94F and using canned or undistilled solvent.

http://analytical360.com/m/expired/294956 --->example of open blasted sample, this was purged 48 hrs with one flip @100F. Not by me, a friend on another forum who shared.

And then scary results like this: http://analytical360.com/m/expired/301863 which tops out a whopping 61880 PPM of various solvents. I just got this one of a360's site, I don't know anything about the process.

And now this one: http://analytical360.com/m/expired/299877 which shows that using distilled solvent and proper techniques you can achieve great results. This was a result shared by dopecooks awhile back.

I want to thank you for that info. I mean if evap occurs at 31F you dont think 97F is reasonable @30+ hours? I'm not saying your wrong, but I would like to know more detail on what time/temps would be needed then for the end result to be > 0.0001 ppm. As im sure we ALL want the cleanest, safest solution for our bodies.
 

dybert

Active member
Ok, so I feel the last 5 comments need to be removed. It's totally getting off topic already. Including this one when the others are removed. Blasting on parchment is a no-no in any case. It does 'leech' due to temps and chemical changes in compound structure. Theirs no need for it when there are other alternatives. Use a pyrex cup. It will pour easily and smoothly. Blast straight into it, then pour onto parchment. (Your oil should be around 80F when poured)

I expect you to prove to me that what I said is incorrect before you go bashing it and calling for deletion.
 
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