Advanced LED Development Thread.

I'll be dead before it gets going lol

There have been some recent developments in the High-power LED game that are promising for our efforts.

Edison Opto has 5W, 10W, 15W and 20W emitters in various wavelengths including amber (close to the peak output of HPS), but their technical literature only discloses the dominant wavelength and not the peak.

LedEngin, Inc. has 5W, 10W and 15W emitters and their technical literature does disclose the peak wavelength. They have a 635nm peak red emitter as well as a 460nm peak blue emitter. I did some calculations and their stated efficiency range is between 16 and 25 percent, depending upon the emitter and power level. I'm pretty excited by the possibilities here.

One thing I have not understood yet is whats the diff between peak and dominate wavelengths. Could you please explain?

DeadlyFoez said:

One thing I have not understood yet is whats the diff between peak and dominate wavelengths. Could you please explain?

Click to expand...

Dominate/Dominant wavelength is the wavelength that is perceived by the human eye. Peak wavelength is the actual radiometric peak--the wavelength around which the output is centered.

Slightly longer explanation here: http://www.marktechopto.com/Products/LEDs-FAQ/leds-drivers-displays-products-faq-dominant.cfm

OK guys i'm on board, where do i sign up?
however all the techno talk gives me a headache...build it and they/we will come.
how long before the array is up and running? i would love to see some results.
thanks and be cool

OK guys i'm on board, where do i sign up?
however all the techno talk gives me a headache...build it and they/we will come.
how long before the array is up and running? i would love to see some results.
thanks and be cool

Click to expand...

Yeah, i know some technicall stuff is boring for many people who just want plug and grow. But its necessary in this starting stages of the LED's growing tech. But you can avoid reading when things go too technie, and still got some useful info.

The seedings im going to use with my high power LEDs prototypes have now two days. I would like to put them with the LEDs before they are 3 weeks old, so this is the time i have to start with it. The strain is a pure landrace sativa (>13 weeks of flower, not commercial one), so it will be a long journal. In the meantime, most of my effort is toward the ways of producing LED's grow lites at cost effective prices. My target is 400w HPS replacements (true replacements, similar yield involved) below the 800$ figure, involving about 50% energy savings and true long duration (achieving lower energy savings and lower duration is far cheaper in the short run (initial cost) but far more expensive in the long run).

In no tecnichal words: the more efficient and durable a LED grow lite is, higher initial cost (and viceversa). More efficient means same results with less power.

Man you guys are really into this LED stuff for growing,I guess its the wave of the future.Do you think you can really flower plants better with led's than with hid's though?

Click to expand...

Yes, i have no doubt at all about it. The concern is the price and the energy savings: save money in the long run.

IMHO, LED's efficacy for growing had been largelly overstated. Now that LEDs technology has reached the required perfomance in order to make them a cost effective alternative to HIDs, its the time to quantify accurately at what initial cost and energy savings LED's lites can be done.

Now its time to start with serious experiments seeking for same yields than HIDs, check how many watts of each kynd of LEDs are required and how much it cost.

Edison Opto has 5W, 10W, 15W and 20W emitters in various wavelengths including amber (close to the peak output of HPS), but their technical literature only discloses the dominant wavelength and not the peak.

Click to expand...

Edison Opto is now using the Cree EZBright1000 chip. Latest releases are achieving radiometric efficiencies over 25% in real conditions. Currently, Seoul SemiConductors and of course, Cree, are using the same die. But this is only in the blue range.

Real efficiencies in the red side are very difficult to know, because the strong dependence of red dies in efficiency depending on temperature. Efficiency depends strongly on how the LEDs are mounted, rather than the efficiency of the die at 25ºC, wich is what is mostly stated, and are impossible to achieve in real conditions. At junction temps of 25ºC, there are many dies achieving efficiencies of 40%. But when using them in real conditions, with junction temps over 45ºC (with excelent and active cooling), and very often over 65ºC, then the efficiency drops sharply.

Knna, thanks for "dumbing down" the tech talk, do you have some pictures to show us? i would like to see what a LED array looks like.
i would think you could do some creative spacing of the lights all around the plants to get the best light to all those buds.
i'm looking forward to seeing how this all plays out...good luck people.
be cool

deadlyfoez,

You cannot hope to impress people here with tomatoes and catnip. If that is your testing grounds, cease and desist.... Grow some marijuana and show real results. No one grows tomatoes indoors, indoor gardeners are marijuana farmers. We don't give 2 shits about catnip.

I have researched this until blue in the face and red in the eyes, we're not there yet. I have not seen anything that has impressed me in the slightest, lots of great talk, but nothing of merit.

Keep on keeping on tho, sometime someday, there will be a few pounds of marijuana grown with 500 watts of LED.... (we hope..)

Neptune said:

deadlyfoez,

You cannot hope to impress people here with tomatoes and catnip. If that is your testing grounds, cease and desist.... Grow some marijuana and show real results. No one grows tomatoes indoors, indoor gardeners are marijuana farmers. We don't give 2 shits about catnip.

Click to expand...

Im not here to impress anyone, and if you had a clue then you'd know that if you can grow tomotoes with LED's then you can grow pot too because pot and tomatoes have about the same demands, so yes all of my research is valid.

I wont grow pot, and I love growing indoors, but hell, if you'd rather me shut up and not contribute any of the fine information that I have many times over just because I'm not growing pot, then you need to go to a more pot snobe friendly site. We are here because we want to learn.

And I dont give a damn if no one on this site cares if I'm growing catnip. I'm not growing it for you, so shut the hell up. If you just want to be a little bitch and make comments just to be an asshole for no reason at all, then goto hell with sadam.

Ahhh NEPTUNE, Yee of little faith.

If you have indeed read all the posts and done some homework you would not be so dismissive of LEDs used as a grow lamp.

I think the people assembled here are some of the most prominant LEDSPERTS and have conducted many many LED experiments between them.

Catnip, lettuce, radishes or our favourite MJ, it does not matter, whats important is that people are demonstrating that growth will occur using just 2/3 wavelengths. Some further optimisation is required and more power, but this is progress.

Sit back, please relax a little, pull up your chair and listen intently.

I am very interested in this thread and look forward to the start of the High power tests from sy and knna.

whoa buddy, settle down.

I'm out of here, you can have your thread.


peace

I just think that this is not meant to be a witchhunt! There is no point in being negative and abrasive towards anybody. Exactly like knna says , it is for the better of everybody here if you think about it. We all want a more afficient growing setup. But yes , at the same time , people want to see the proof in the pudding.... Not calculations and theorems.

I think just for the fact that so often "in theory" it should work but in practice it never performs as predicted.

Good luck to all and lets hope for some positive results

High guys...

Any more updates on the LED grows??

Yours very interestedley.

Hi ive been following this thread and am very anxious to see DeadlyFoez complete setup. I was so close to spending over a G ($1,000) on an LED setup about 2 years ago but i ran it through these forums to get some opinions and they were pretty much the same as they are now. Negative. However it seems now that the LED method of growing is gaining momentum and more and more growers are willing to commit to this form of lighting. Granted DeadlyFoez wont be growing MJ but if his tomatoe plants come out big and lush then MJ will react the same. So way to stay dedicated Deadly and im wishing u good luck cuz if ur grow is successful then i may be converting myself.

you also have some grows with MJ included. not only this forum.

The subject of grams per watt interests me as it pertains to using LEDS. I agree that getting 1g/watt for a first grow is great. That said given the current cost of LEDS and the efficiency they offer by being able to concentrate all of the light in the most useful spectrums I would hope that they would be able to provide far more than 1g/watt. If not, then at least for me, I would choose to wait until they are much more affordable so that my total yield wouldn't be limited by the reduced wattage I could afford.

What are your thoughts?

a friend of mine reached 1g/w in his very first grow, using leds ofcourse. and if he reached it in his first grow, i believe he can go higher now when he got some experiences. he used soil, so it would be even better if using hydro. with the right growing technicque, strain and experiences you can get much more than 1g/w.

Thanks for the response LED_experiments. How much did it cost to build the 17W array? Same question for the 30W and 70W arrays.

knna thanks as well, it is nice to see you on this thread too since I know you and LED_experiments both have quite a bit of knowledge on the subject.

WILL SOMEONE BRING ME UP TO SPEED......

High Times has an ad in it selling LED's as a sub for HPS

im exited about this new form of tech.....i belive HPS will not be around for much longer........ our hobby is going hi tech soon ....is LED the only thing new

can someone sell me a LED setup that will beat my 1000w air cooled HPS?

thanks
rick

i'm sorry for the poor quality of the photo




maybe we'll get higher ratio this round