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Wiring TG11 Socket Remote CFL lamps
- Thread starter Hydro-Soil
- Start date
To clarify something Hydro said a few posts back.... the bulb that 1000bulbs.com lists as a 4800 lumen 55w is actually only 3000 lumen? That throws things outta whack a bit in my calculations.
I'm planning to build a 4' (w) x 2.5' (d) x 3' (h) stealth cab.
The mother/clone room would be about 1.5' x 2.5' (3.75 ft^2).
The flowering room would be about 2.5' x 2.5' (6.25 ft^2).
Based on things I've been reading while lurking on these forums, I want to have a minimum of 3000 lm/ft^2 in my veg, and somewhere between 5000 and 7500 lm/ft^2 in my flowering cab.
If these things are 4800 lm per 55w bulb, that would mean I'd need 10 in my flowering room to get 7500 lm/ft^2. (6.25ft * 7500lm = 46875),(46875/4800lm = 9.76 lamps). That seemed doable. Three workhorse 8 ballasts ($120) plus ten 55w bulbs ($140) = $260
I did a bunch of math yesterday comparing these bulbs to coiled CFL (I'd need thirteen 55 watt or twenty two 32 watt coiled CFLs to equal same 7500/ft^2) and I thought I was all set.
Then I read today about the 3000lm on the package... so if they're closer to 3000lm each, that would mean I'd need 16 bulbs to reach the 7500 lm/ft^2.
I haven't seen ANYBODY on here attempting anything close to that. Not to mention that it's gonna be sucking 880 watts and approaching the cost of an HPS setup.
Am I way off base here? Is shooting for 7500 unrealistic or unnecessary?
Would I be better off running HID?
Could I get by with 3000 or 5000 lm/ft^2? Any idea what I'd be sacrificing in terms of yield/potency? Could a 6.25 ft^2 area even support 16 55w tubes or would my plants catch fire the moment I fire them all up?
Total newb. Trying to do this right. Been lurking for weeks spending hours a day reading and I just haven't found answers to this issue.
My goals in order of importance:
#1 Stealth!
#2 Potency
#3 Highest Yield per ft^2.
Any help would be appreciated.
I'm planning to build a 4' (w) x 2.5' (d) x 3' (h) stealth cab.
The mother/clone room would be about 1.5' x 2.5' (3.75 ft^2).
The flowering room would be about 2.5' x 2.5' (6.25 ft^2).
Based on things I've been reading while lurking on these forums, I want to have a minimum of 3000 lm/ft^2 in my veg, and somewhere between 5000 and 7500 lm/ft^2 in my flowering cab.
If these things are 4800 lm per 55w bulb, that would mean I'd need 10 in my flowering room to get 7500 lm/ft^2. (6.25ft * 7500lm = 46875),(46875/4800lm = 9.76 lamps). That seemed doable. Three workhorse 8 ballasts ($120) plus ten 55w bulbs ($140) = $260
I did a bunch of math yesterday comparing these bulbs to coiled CFL (I'd need thirteen 55 watt or twenty two 32 watt coiled CFLs to equal same 7500/ft^2) and I thought I was all set.
Then I read today about the 3000lm on the package... so if they're closer to 3000lm each, that would mean I'd need 16 bulbs to reach the 7500 lm/ft^2.
I haven't seen ANYBODY on here attempting anything close to that. Not to mention that it's gonna be sucking 880 watts and approaching the cost of an HPS setup.
Am I way off base here? Is shooting for 7500 unrealistic or unnecessary?
Would I be better off running HID?
Could I get by with 3000 or 5000 lm/ft^2? Any idea what I'd be sacrificing in terms of yield/potency? Could a 6.25 ft^2 area even support 16 55w tubes or would my plants catch fire the moment I fire them all up?
Total newb. Trying to do this right. Been lurking for weeks spending hours a day reading and I just haven't found answers to this issue.
My goals in order of importance:
#1 Stealth!
#2 Potency
#3 Highest Yield per ft^2.
Any help would be appreciated.
stink.whistler
Member
That's 6.25 square feet of flower, definitely in the range where you could be using an HPS, a 250 Watt would be perfect, especially if you could mount the light at the top (so it isn't using any of your 3 feet verticle).
But a pl CFL would be cool to try, go with a half dozen 55 watters, maybe three on top, and one verticle on each wall (excluding where the door is).
13 55W plCFLs would be way overkill, I'm too many beers into my night to figure the math, but methinks you calculated something wrong. CFL is pretty efficient, 50W per square foot would be fine.
But a pl CFL would be cool to try, go with a half dozen 55 watters, maybe three on top, and one verticle on each wall (excluding where the door is).
13 55W plCFLs would be way overkill, I'm too many beers into my night to figure the math, but methinks you calculated something wrong. CFL is pretty efficient, 50W per square foot would be fine.
Hey, I appreciate the reply, beers or not. Here's my math. Feel free to call me out if I've done something wrong:
(w)2.5' x (l) 2.5' = 6.25 ft^2
6.25 square feet * 7500 lumens = 46,875 total lumens
46,875 total lumens / 3000 lumen per bulb = 15.625 bulbs
So that's 16 bulbs (rounding up) to get 7500 lm/ft^2 in a 6.25ft^2 space.
I had thought about the vertical mounting, but I was planning on mounting all the lights side by side on a 2.5' x 2.5' shelf that could be placed directly above the canopy and moved up as needed. Seems like the best way to ensure even development.
Thoughts?
Crash-n-Burn
Member
It sounds crazy to even try, man. Why would you fork out all of that dough to run flourescents?
I run CFLs in my veg cab because it just makes sense for the small space. On the other hand, including fan and ducting, I've got less than $200 in my ENTIRE 250w HPS cooltube setup and I'm running an expensive Lumatek digital ballast.
If you're doing what the OP is doing and running a few of these things, I think it's a great idea. I'm fairly certain they'd blow a coiled CFL out of the water for light efficiency. If you're looking for "big" light, it's better to get a big light.
I'm not sure exactly what bulb Hydro-Soil was referencing, but I dug around a little. GE has all their 2G11 55w bulbs listed as 4800 lumens.
One example:
http://genet.gelighting.com/LightProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=COMMERCIALSPECPAGE&PRODUCTCODE=31951
Philips' site was hard to navigate, but I found this which lists 55w as the same, 4800 lumens
(link to .pdf)
http://www.lighting.philips.com/in_.../datasheets/compact_fluo/master_pl_l_4pin.pdf
I'm guessing what Hydro-Soil read was a misprint, or not a lumen rating.
One example:
http://genet.gelighting.com/LightProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=COMMERCIALSPECPAGE&PRODUCTCODE=31951
Philips' site was hard to navigate, but I found this which lists 55w as the same, 4800 lumens
(link to .pdf)
http://www.lighting.philips.com/in_.../datasheets/compact_fluo/master_pl_l_4pin.pdf
I'm guessing what Hydro-Soil read was a misprint, or not a lumen rating.
bakelite
Active member
There are some discrepancies as far as lumens go with 55w Pl-l bulbs. All of the 3000k, 3500k and 4100k bulbs that I've seen are rated at 4800 lumens while Philips rates their 5300k bulb at 3650 lumens.
http://www.1000bulbs.com/32542/
Man I wish the info on these things was more consistent. The difference in efficiency between 4800lm and 3000lm at the same wattage is enormous! That right there is the difference between them being more efficient than many HIDs, or not. I still want better answers on how many amps the Workhorse ballasts can actual handle too.....
according to http://www.1000bulbs.com/Fulham-Ballast-Workhorse-8/ you can get the Workhorse 8 in a .74 or a 1.8 amp model.
If 16 is unrealistic... what IS realistic? When do you think heat / distance from plant make HID the better choice? Would 10 55w tubes run cooler than a 400w cool-tubed HPS?
Curious minds want to know. Thank you for your replies.
-.\nti
Thanks for the info. So at 550mA per 55W PL-L, anything more than 3 lamps and you're going to start to suffer an output decrease. I'm not sure how it could be any other way. Maybe I am missing something?
Now that's what I'm talking about!
bakelite
Active member
Anti, Fulham has two different ballasts, one for 277 volts (0.74 amps) and one for 120 volts (which draws 1.8 amps). Both provide about the same amount of wattage (volts X amps = watts).
At the risk of opening a huge can o' worms, (10) 55w fluorescent tubes (~550 watts total) would produce more heat than a 400w HPS would.
-bakelite
bakelite
Active member
MC, I'm not worrying about the lumen ratings myself. I'm not sure what the story is with the reduced lumen output of full spectrum PL-L's (those in the 5000-5500k range). I'm assuming it has something to do with the phosphor they use etc. If you stick with 3000k, 3500k, 4100k and 6500k you'll be fine as from what I have seen they are all rated at 4800 lumens.
Whatever it's worth based on what little I have seen of the spectral distribution of these lamps, while the lumen output is less, the amount of PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) may actually the same as the other lamps. PAR is really all that matters for our purposes
Hope this helps
-bakelite
Peanut Butter
Member
Yes, although its not exactly a simple solution. You could run a normal electrical timer which controls your power to the flower ballast, and have a DPDT relay ran in parallel with your flower ballast. When power turns onto the flower ballast, the relay would connect the circuit from the veg ballast to the fourth flower bulb. allelectronics.com has some 110v relays that should work, probably should make it easy on yourself and grab the proper relay socket while your at it. Effectively this is similar to creating a flip-flop....you could even go so far as to run 3 bulbs in veg, having 1 flip-flop with the 1 bulb in flower. I hope that made sense.
My bulbs are coming in today, I have a quick wiring question.
I plan to use European wire terminals in order to wire them to the ballast. Since I will only be wiring 3 of the 4 pins, would there be in issue leaving the fourth one bare, or could it cause a problem.
Also could I just use wire to hang them, rather then the PL clips. The place I ordered my bulbs had amazing prices but no real accessories. Also is there a cheap reflector you all would recommend. I hope to get MIRO 4 reflectors in the future just can't afford them now.
I plan to use European wire terminals in order to wire them to the ballast. Since I will only be wiring 3 of the 4 pins, would there be in issue leaving the fourth one bare, or could it cause a problem.
Also could I just use wire to hang them, rather then the PL clips. The place I ordered my bulbs had amazing prices but no real accessories. Also is there a cheap reflector you all would recommend. I hope to get MIRO 4 reflectors in the future just can't afford them now.
When wiring remotely what gauge wire should one use. The workhorse ballast leads are 18awg, however the pins on the lamp are roughly 12awg. I plan on buying stranded wire in order to mount the wire easier.
What gauge wires should I use, I will be connecting lamps to ballast with Euro wire terminals so I have to get the right gauge for those as well. I would assume 12awg would be find but would like a 2nd opinion. They will be mounted roughly 4-5 feet from the ballast.
What gauge wires should I use, I will be connecting lamps to ballast with Euro wire terminals so I have to get the right gauge for those as well. I would assume 12awg would be find but would like a 2nd opinion. They will be mounted roughly 4-5 feet from the ballast.
charlesweedmore
Member
great topic,subscribed!
I've been out of the loop for a bit.
Definitely cap the end of any terminal you're not using. If you don't believe me, stick yer finger on the end of it while the ballast is running.
Yes, you can use wire to hold up the lamp ends. The lamps don't get hot enough to cause fires.
