A room full of swinging dicks...

Kankakee · Feb 3, 2018

Gu~ / GreenPoint is a bum ....

a guy taking fancy pics in a small basement grow, but those breeders seeking $$$ used him for growing gear out. then gu started chucking himself.... But since he took really good pic's and grew nice plants bodhi etc just tossed loads of seeds his way so he could help hype up strains.

but many of todays breeders did this very same thing. maybe not stealing lines but just good growers who then started selling seeds..... ( sub, hazeman, etc ... )

the biggest joke on most is they see a great plant not stressed taken with a $3,000 camera and think someone is luther burbank. but most are just pollen chuckers ....

Karma is one of a few real breeders doing any work.

Gu's a chucker ....

hunt4genetics · Feb 3, 2018

These dudes look awesome~ !!!!

WaterFarmFan · Feb 4, 2018

dank.frank said:
Okay. Story time!!!

I first heard of I95 - around 2013. I was gifted 30 seeds.

The I95 line uses a Stardawg Ix2 male. This male was developed exclusively by $mike. I have smoked several seed lines, this male fathered, that were ALL nasty rank chunky east coast style classic fire.

This male, Corey x (Corey x Stardawg/Stardawg 1st gen) - I *think* is the correct lineage, represents, 4 separate male selections. These weren't small scale seed hunts. This line took YEARS. The work started in 2009.

So, from 2009-2013. 4+ years, $mike focused primarily on one specific project.

A cut called L-Dawg, is around. It's Legend OG x Stardawg Ix2. It's fire. Grown by many friends and proven top shelf. Those results encouraged $mike to play with that line a bit. A male was selected.

I95 was born. I95 has been worked. The #4 and Angel OG among other isolated keepers, exist and have been shared with friends. There have been improvements and refinements made to the line via selection across countless seeds.

I know several buddies that have done 50+ seed pops of various I95 outcrossed lines, just to see if there is anything worth pursuing. ALL the chems. Cookies. Diesels. Hazes. Hash plants. DNL. etc. All been done. Long time ago.

It wasn't released for a reason.... - Because in test lines, the end results did not actually carry the line the direction desired.

Moneymike has been working I95 for about 5 YEARS now. He had just slowly begun releasing selected workings that DID meet his criteria.

Have you heard of G-Dawg? I'm going to assume not. It's the Chem D S1 that yields better. Stinks more. Frosts harder. Tests above 31%. It's a cut isolated by MoneyMike. It was bred to I95. Then a male from that line was used to Bx the G. The line is finally going some place it was intended. Skunk ass to the max.

Everyone thinks it's supposed to be an OG line. It's not. I95 was a base line designed to create a given plant profile that would be suitable for pursuing RKS.

In other words - Gnu has done nothing but stolen the work that $mike has spent the last 10 years of his life devoted too creating - and he has not the slightest clue what to do with it or how to utilize it in an effective manner. If he did, he wouldn't have released a basic one off chem cross. He took a line that can produce exceptional cannabis and watered it down. Seriously.

Gnu STARTED his company, by begging Karma Genetics for some tester seeds. He then, took a male from that line, before Karma had ever decide if the line was acceptable for full public release - and started Green Point Seeds.

He is doing the same thing to TopDawg. Stealing their work and trying to release it in mass. First he did it with Stardawg.. Now he is doing it with I95.

He is a manipulative, lying, backstabbing, OPPORTUNIST. His business model:

1. Scan the internet for trends.
2. Manipulate people to gain access.
3. ASAP reproduce.
4. Create drama and act innocent.
5. Profit.

Let's not forget why he is banned here.

He was starting a seed company by sending PMs to everybody on IC offering to sell them seeds really cheap. Once he drummed up enough noise, he created a false account to have "someone" showing his seeds so others could post their results as well...

Everything he has done since day one has been a calculated effort to make himself seem like everyone is picking old poor Gnu who just wants to spread genetics these big bad greedy companies don't want you to have.

It's is a farce. He is a capitalist pig who stalks, steals, and profits off the lifetime dedication of others.

F.U.C.K. him.

(you did ask)

dank.Frank

Thanks for sharing additional backstory on i95! This dude, Gnu, sounds like POS, on just about every level. I have heard WAAAAYYYYY too many bad stories about Green Point. I have infinite respect for Karma and his team, as those guys do it right on just about every level.

However, I did not obtain these seeds from him. This is the actual post in question:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSGuHlSBhWy/?taken-by=topdawgseeds

WaterFarmFan · Feb 4, 2018

dank.frank said:
That being your ethos, then you MUST understand EXACTLY why Gnu is NOT entitled, to quote, "a single F'n thing".

dank.Frank

We are 100% on the same page. I think this post, from the IG thread that I linked above, sums up my feelings pretty well on this matter:

"I read this whole thread. It was a group of lessons to be learned. I am 47 and have been in the industry for 33 years. It seems to me that if you want to keep a secret then don't tell anyone. If you want a strain to be yours alone then don't give it to anyone. What disturbs me is the idea that anyone owns any of this. It is an open source plant and hopefully it stays that way. Trust is a funny thing, funny like a hot red poker in your ass. Monsanto fucked over almost every farmer in this country with this owning of genetic material. You most likely put in a ton of work and want to reap the benefits. We all understand this but that does not entitle you to anything. You let the cat out of the bag and I am sorry your trust was violated but once it's out there then it's out there. Infighting is not a luxury we ever had as it was a real war. You guys know you're on the same team?"

WaterFarmFan · Feb 4, 2018

Kankakee said:
Gu~ / GreenPoint is a bum ....

a guy taking fancy pics in a small basement grow, but those breeders seeking $$$ used him for growing gear out. then gu started chucking himself.... But since he took really good pic's and grew nice plants bodhi etc just tossed loads of seeds his way so he could help hype up strains.

but many of todays breeders did this very same thing. maybe not stealing lines but just good growers who then started selling seeds..... ( sub, hazeman, etc ... )

the biggest joke on most is they see a great plant not stressed taken with a $3,000 camera and think someone is luther burbank. but most are just pollen chuckers ....

Karma is one of a few real breeders doing any work.

Gu's a chucker ....

Hey Kankakee! When there is (lots of) money to made, shaddy shit happens, no ifs, and or buts... It seems the name of current IG seed game is: 1.) Find a (likely untested) male or selfed elite clone from the latest craze. 2.) Dust the most popular and as many as possible hottest clones. 3.) Immediately release said seeds without testing.

I am guilty of buying many of the packs created in the above process, as it is very hard to not get caught up the strain hype game. Some hits and other misses, but I did stumble on some fire In House fems.

I am not trying to be an asshole, and I certainly want to support hard working breeders, but let's not kid ourselves - this is not fucking rocking science or a cure for cancer. It is doing a selection and having the time and care to watch the offspring. We all want to be rewarded for our hard work, but a successful company is built by offering a superior products AND superior customer service for the life of the company, not creating a product or idea and using government force to make sure no one else uses it.

A small part of the reason that I am making my own seeds and stockpiling genetics is for preservation in case some asshole is granted a patent that forces most modern genetics to get pulled from the market. I will be like fuck you and do as I please, just as I do everyday now.

oldbootz · Feb 4, 2018

I think its funny how hype sells seeds. Purely a socio-psycological phenomenon. You have all this info out on the net and people choose to turn a blind eye because something is "hyped" and they really want it in the garden. For example, when "the white" first came out. Everyone wanted seeds x the white, even though it was a low yielding average tasting cut. Hybrids x the white now are quite few since the hype has died and people realize the plant sucks a bit. Guys doing shit like Gnu deserve to have their dirty laundry out on display so we can all make more educated decisions. Thanks Frank for pointing out the truth.

WaterFarmFan · Feb 4, 2018

Kankakee said:
so what happens if you invest in say hemp seed production including property, greenhouses etc and do not get a plant protection via patient ???

Hmm, maybe you would grow hemp and sell the seeds in a way that can make a profit? You know, somewhere with a production and pricing level that meets the supply/demand curve? This is also called running a business, and it involves marketing, logistics and quite a few difficult things.

I am not dismissing all patents. I am blatantly and utterly dismissing them for the natural selection of plants. Want to do some crazy GMO shit? Fine, but unless it has a purpose (like saving farmers lots of money via better efficiency), it will just be rejected by the market.

So create the best product in the world, just don't invest a gazillion dollars into one that can be easily copied or is not demanded by the market. It is best to be first, but unless you can repeat it, over, over and over again (ie run a long term business), it really does not mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

You could patent your strain, and then sit on your ass, while your competitors streamline operations, get better at CS and selling direct, only to make a slightly better version of your product, which makes your patent less than useless. If they sell at a market price and high enough volumes, THEIR shareholders and investors will be happy, but not you...

thejact55 · Feb 4, 2018

Simply- hype unhypes me.
Im not a heavy smoker. I live in a "legal" (bullshit term i voted no on) state with ample weed rec shops i can walk to, and ive never set foot in a single one.
Taco bell, mcdonalds ect are eaten by everyone, trash ass food. I might be wrong, but anything hyped in the USA is like dating a prostitute, itll fuck you and your homie, so dont support it. Im not in the mainstream, i dont know names or people. Weed has no monetary value to me. I give a pound or so a year away free, cause i aint gonna get to it anyways....isnt that better? What water is doing, grow hella males, cause thats cool, do whats works for you. I dunno, i dont need weed to support my family, so maybe its different, but my 2 cents based on drama talked of above.

Trich_Tyson · Feb 4, 2018

tuning in for this.. here to learn

WaterFarmFan · Feb 4, 2018

In the subject of fairness, I have to mention the much more applicable tool of trademark. I think that it is more than fair to register a name for a product, so that it can be distinguished from others in the market place. If things were legal, $Mike could trademark i95 for cannabis and gain far more legal control.

This would snuff the copycat hype game, as you could not say the strain name unless licensed. People would continue to lie about the source and just give it another name, or say they magically found it in a some bagseed, as many urban-canna-legends go... But at least other breeders could not sell products, as labeled, that ride the coattails of other breeders hard work.

The IRONIC PART of using trademarks is that some of the most popular strains violate the trademarks of other well known brands. Girls Scouts of America might have serious issues, as did the makers of Guerilla Glue recently, ruling that only GG4 can be used for cannibis to protect their brands.

WaterFarmFan · Feb 4, 2018

oldbootz said:
I think its funny how hype sells seeds. Purely a socio-psycological phenomenon. You have all this info out on the net and people choose to turn a blind eye because something is "hyped" and they really want it in the garden.

Blame the rise of usa seed banks with fast and safe delivery, social media and image sharing sites like Instagram. I had to disable my IG account as part of my 10 Step Stop Buying Seeds Program. If all you are seeing are plants that make your mouth water, with a friendly link to purchase, AND you are addicted to buying seeds, this is a DEVASTATING combo.

Seed addiction is a real thing folks. People just have to have the lastest and greatest best strain from the lastest and greatest hype artists (breeders that sellout releases in hours or days and the banks that sell them). Throw in discounts from banks and freebies on larger orders better than anything available for sale, it is hard to say no... I felt like Pookie hitting the crack pipe. Over and over and over... Took cold turkey and a bunch of email un-subscriptions to break the back of the demon inside that. could. not. stop. buying. seeds...

WaterFarmFan · Feb 4, 2018

I just want to say that I have nothing but love for Frank and everyone that has posted here. My opinions are my own, and I welcome any healthy or truthful dialogue. We would not each be posting here unless we had a passion for the plant and lets focus on that.

Thanks for all comments and feel free to post photos of your best males, as that is the purpose of this thread!

dank.frank · Feb 4, 2018

$mike and KG are both F.A.M.

I'll always take the less popular road when it means sticking to what's right. I'll double down when it involves those I care about because of the generosity and kindness they have shown me.

I think this is what bothers me the most. Gu wants to talk about things from the perspective of the counter-culture. The reality is, if there was ANY counter culture left to hear his words, those who believe in the cultural movement that is cannabis [as opposed to the cannabis industry], would see how plainly WRONG he is and simply refuse to buy his seeds.

The fact he is even in business at all, tells me we are surrounded by those who could care less about right or wrong, as long as they get.

But then again. Why should I be surprised. Naturally, Gu's personality is going to attract a like minded clientele. I've sort of just come to this conclusion as I was typing. This is a waste of time. :tiphat:

dank.Frank

WaterFarmFan · Feb 4, 2018

KG is fucking awesome. He has answered a bunch of my PMs here, and every one of one his breeder packs that I have bought has shined. Never chatted with $mike. I sent JJ a bunch of DMs that he never returned. Most breeders will chat directly about their gear.

I seriously don't know who Gu is and his biz sounds shady as fuck. I do not promote fuck-thievery. I spent well over $7k buying breeder pack seeds from reputable brokers or awesome peps like BOG and Ace that sell direct. This is the only pack (Chem D x i95) that really sounded interesting to me and filled a hole in my collection, so I contacted someone (Mindful collective) offlist about getting some that were available no where else. Is this ethical? You clearly think not. Fine. I am not selling seeds only looking for the best possible herb. If that offends you, well...

oldbootz · Feb 4, 2018

Hey WaterFarmFan I dont think there is anything wrong with buying seeds and growing them. I think dank.frank wants to just expose the injustice of the guy who made the i95 seed repro. All the best.

VerdantGreen · Feb 4, 2018

interesting project but i dont see how the hell you are going to avoid the different strains' pollen from contaminating each other. even lifting one of those males out from that bunch is going to spread pollen over all the other plants! looks like a logistical nightmare to me but good luck with it.

VG

Kankakee · Feb 4, 2018

how about the good ole daze on t.s.d as jb was stealing money and all the mods covered it up making excuses for that thief ...

Gu~ was lecturing ALL testers on conduct etc at the time.

sad thing is nobody called the bum out except me at the time. most peeps wanna just keep the seed / hype train movement going. joining some higher clique, ass kissers looking for online rep being part of scam game clone hype revolution. most clone only's nothing but hype. you can pop random seeds and do better.

but alas, it's all coming full circle as prices crash making most black market grows unprofitable. most these seed companies will be long gone very soon. unless your working with unmolested genetics, your just working with some washed out poly on poly hybrid. most seeds sold today are not unique in high's ...

most genetics today built off nevils anyhow. lots and lots just renamed his stuff in the 90's now its totally out of control.

Kankakee · Feb 4, 2018

dank.frank · Feb 4, 2018

I'm sorry for the Gu rant - but you did ask for some back story - this will be the last post concerning it. I'm actually, only making this post after having clicked the link your provided and realized what was going on.

To make things clearer for you, I was under the initial impression it was Gu that had gotten a hold of I95 some how. I don't participate in instagram, so wasn't aware of what was going on an who was involved in the I95 fiasco.

I'm really surprised that TR would let something slip on purpose. Although, there is backstory on that as well, in regards to Grindhouse Seeds, Steele Savage, and a Mob Boss breeding cut getting leaked in CO. I won't sit here and act like this is the first time it's happened...

I don't know who these IG ballers are or their significance in the cannabis circles. My thoughts and opinions on Gu and what he has done - is without exception - and therefore does apply to this other situation as well.

Everyone complains about people "hoarding" - well, this is exactly why things get hoarded. Because of shady people grasping at straws to make a dollar on the work someone else put in. And for sure, it's been going on since seeds became a business ala Nev vs Sam.

THE PROOF - it is 1000% about $$$ - This new guy stealing I95 could have just called it ANYTHING. Instead, he knew the rarity and used that developed BRAND to catapult himself into the spotlight. It is completely undignified.

I'm not attacking you personally. In no way am I offended by you or this thread. I love what you have going here. I'm just sharing the information you asked about and in doing so providing an explanation as to why I think that point of view holds relevancy.

IF this was a legal industry, producing what they did, would amount to corporate espionage and stealing trade secrets at the very least. They'd be up to their eyeballs in lawsuits. I say this, knowing $mike and TR are (were?) good friends and shared openly.

ECPC x I95 - that is really a middle finger. East Coast Panama Chunk, if I'm not mistaken was made by $mike a LONG time ago. Only shared with close, personal friends. Headstash. Why that was tagged with I95 pollen and released...it's just wrong. Betrayal, really.

That aside, if the seed to sale system has been breached, there could already be legal ramifications for this person leaking genes that were part of a medical program.

dank.Frank

~star~crash~ · Feb 4, 2018

this is too much

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