Can we discuss bubblegum?

I just re-read what I wrote...
Can't edit yet and immediately regret using the term "actual breeders" or sth like that.

Sorry, please disregard, I don't want to start no shit.

Just wanted to give my opinion and didn't want to say that Chimera or BOG aren't "actual" breeders (and the way I said it, it does sound like that's what I meant...).

Was just trying to say that imho, folks like Chimera and BOG are not on the same level, just reputation-wise, as some others.
Yet the prices they ask are on the same level, sometimes even higher than the creme de la creme...
That doesn't fit for me, especially considering some of the lineages of some of their strains, coming from stuff like Nirvana and White Label genetics...

But maybe I will give them a chance someday anyhow and the experience might change my mind. Just judging from research and reputation, I think it is fair to say that both of them are not "Tier 1 breeders".
Hope thats better...

*sigh* I feel like I already said too much.
I'll show myself out.

Since you brought up Chimera...

He is not only a breeder, he's an extremely educated & talented geneticist.

He's released some recent work using Sweet Skunk & Jack. His Blueberry crosses have been around for a while. Grapefruit x BB being one of his most desirable.

I've yet to see another breeder that goes to the depth this gentleman does with his projects. His passion for this plant is unsurpassed.

Which ever direction you decide to go, I wish you the very best.

bigbadbiddy you are oblivious to what we do.

I am the only breeder in this entire industry that in the last years has screened literally dozens of intentionally designed and created chemotypic populations on real scale, using full analytics for both cannabinoids and terpenes (and other compounds which nobody is looking at) by HPLC and GC/FID to make selections and refinements. Nobody, and I do mean nobody, has ever taken on such a brute force approach to breeding cannabis on any scale, period- and that's simply a fact. I work with multiple genomics companies and analytical labs, helping to refine protocols and provide authentic and verified genotypes to validate and calibrate the sequencing work.

What you think about our reputation is really quite irrelevant to me. You don't know me or any of the work I've been doing. I could care less about reputation, it's about the work you do... and the reality is that the work I am doing now and have been involved with over the past few years is literally light years ahead of what any other commercial seed breeders are doing in this industry, and is even years ahead of what most of the medical field are pursuing (I know this because I consult and breed for multiple companies in multiple countries). I work with the most elite researchers in the field. That's not flippant or bragging, it's just what I do. Have a look through my gallery, it's not all there, but there are certainly enough hints that show what I've been up to.

Chimera, even without all the fancy new tech you have to work with, you're still considered, and have been for quite a while, one of the top breeders and knowledgeable people in the industry. Anyone who's been around for more than a few min knows that.

bigbadbiddy said:

I just re-read what I wrote...
Can't edit yet and immediately regret using the term "actual breeders" or sth like that.

Sorry, please disregard, I don't want to start no shit.

Just wanted to give my opinion and didn't want to say that Chimera or BOG aren't "actual" breeders (and the way I said it, it does sound like that's what I meant...).

Was just trying to say that imho, folks like Chimera and BOG are not on the same level, just reputation-wise, as some others.
Yet the prices they ask are on the same level, sometimes even higher than the creme de la creme...
That doesn't fit for me, especially considering some of the lineages of some of their strains, coming from stuff like Nirvana and White Label genetics...

But maybe I will give them a chance someday anyhow and the experience might change my mind. Just judging from research and reputation, I think it is fair to say that both of them are not "Tier 1 breeders".
Hope thats better...

*sigh* I feel like I already said too much.
I'll show myself out.

Click to expand...

You seem to be either behind the times or to young to know about Chimera or BOG.

Chimera does good work with all different strains.

BOG focused mainly on bubblegum genetics, but he used real breeding not just pollen chucking a few elites like some of the newer seed companies.

Lots of people say the older companies like Nirvana have actually lost quality and you are less likely to find keepers now.

whiteberrieS said:

Myself I really like the fruitstripes but the flavor goes away too fast
View Image


Bog's got his Bog Bubble & Bogglegum, got a baby Bogglegum going right now. "Bazooka Joe" gets thrown around a lot in the BogBubble and Bogglegum searches

Click to expand...

I also have 5 boggle gum I just cracked

Again, to clarify:
It is just my view of "the industry".
I would put the ones I mentioned Tier 1 and folks like Chimera and BOG Tier 2. Just from my research and their reputation.

That being said, Tier 2 is not "shit tier" where I would put greenhouse and co.
It is also not Tier 3 or 4 or 5 where I would put folks like Serious etc. etc.
I would also rate BOG and Chimera Tier 1 if their price was a little more suited to their reputation (with the stipulation that BOG's is if you buy from him directly. Were I in the US, I would rate BOG Tier 1).

Now that being said, among what I would call Tier 2 in the little head of mine, Chimera and BOG are who most interest me because of their reputation (which includes actual reports on their genetics grown out etc.).

But I haven't purchased them, yet, because I fail to see why I would pay more for what I consider Tier 2 than I would for what I consider Tier 1.
I purchased close to 1k in seeds over the last few months, so I will soon be able to augment my "view of the industry" by actual experiences and facts.
After having done so, I see no reason why I wouldn't run at least a pack or two of Chimera's and BOG's gear to compare it to what I researched to be the best option for me at this point in time. Unless I became so infatuated with "my Tier 1 breeders" after having grown their stuff that I decide to just spend more of my money on them.

But until then, I fail to see why I would pay so much for seeds that have an inferior reputation. That doesn't mean their work or product is inferior. It might well be worth the price tag they ask, I can't judge that.
But at this point in time and from my perspective, others have a better reputation AND are cheaper. So I fail to see why I would go for Tier 2 at this point in time.

Having spent 1k in seeds, I was definitely open to buying less from one breeder and spreading what's in my "bank" across a larger variety of breeders. But there aren't many in Tier 1 and 2 imho, probably less than 10 breeders combined. And I just picked the ones that had the best ratio of reputation and price, which, sadly, neither Chimera nor BOG belonged to. BOG actually does but only if I were to order from him directly and he doesn't ship to Europe.

And while it does speak positively about Chimera that he is actually active and willing to share his perspective on my opinion, I am sorry to say that himself saying that he does unprecedented things and works at a "higher level than anyone in the industry" is not only kind of worthless but even negative in my view.
The industry is full of people blowing themselves and saying how they are heads and shoulders above the rest. Undesirables like Greenhouse among them.

@MJPassion
Thank you for wishing me the best of luck and not using my sometimes poorly formulated statements to get into an argument with me. I admire your level-headedness and patience. After re-reading my statemens I was sure that you or others would start bashing me and I wouldn't even be able to blame you for it.

@Cosmic Charlie
I did research BOG extensively and Chimera a little bit. I do know of them but obviously am not their childhood friend or sth nor have I been around the last couple of decades.
It has also come to my attention that older breeders seem to have lost quality but not all of them. Serious Seeds seems to be a good example for this though.
About Nirvana: I find it highly amusing that 2 decades ago they were regarded as knock-offers and some even called them "thieves". They had a very bad rep and were basically only interesting for those on a budget.
I come back a few decades later and Nirvana is basically regarded as "heirloom genetics" by so many. Found that very surprising and somewhat comical.
It also underlined how poorly formerly well-respected breeders like Serious Seeds must have handled their stock and stake in the industry for Nirvana to be held in such lofty regards.
And then, a few years later, Nirvana went from knock-off producers capitalizing on other's work, to "heirloom breeders" to "loosing quality like the other older breeders".
Very interesting development imho.


We will see. For now I can't really justify buying any more seeds, I have enough for many, many years.
But if I run across a good deal on BOG, Chimera and some OG Kush genetics along the way, I will get some of those.

I was so interested in bubblegum... It topped my wishlist as a matter of fact... And I am actually quite bummed out that I had to end up considering White Label and Nirvana as possibly my best options with regards to bubblegum...

But I have many different Afghani, Chitral and such genetics in my lineup so I might also get lucky and get my own bubblegum running from these lines of genetics.
Also Nevil has been quoted to say that Nl5xSkunk and BigBud aka Critical Mass are what the "original" bubblegum was made of. I have those too.

Will run all of that and if I can't find Bubblegum myself, I will eventually bite the bullet and give others I don't consider Tier 1 a try, including BOG, Serious, TH seeds etc.

Or I bite the other bullet and let a friend in the US/Canada know that I want BOG seeds and let him forward them to me.

Let's see.

If all goes well I have some concrete experience and reports/pics to share in a few months.

Bubblegum is avery old variety, and its abundant. Theres no need to try and recreate the wheel. Its here, and its not hard to find if you speak to the right ppl. Ive been growing the bg and hybrids of it for a long time.
I cant believe you lumped chimera in a category with BOG. Thats not even right..

Closest thing I've ever had to the original Indiana Bubblegum (we have a reworked version in Asheville that has been around a good 15 years too) is BOG's Bogglegum. Had some at the cup this year in Denver from the man itself and it was pretty damned close in flavor and buzz, although didn't look anything like the clone-only IME.

The Revolution said:

Bubblegum is avery old variety, and its abundant. Theres no need to try and recreate the wheel. Its here, and its not hard to find if you speak to the right ppl. Ive been growing the bg and hybrids of it for a long time.
I cant believe you lumped chimera in a category with BOG. Thats not even right..

Click to expand...

Not sure what you're getting at here. BOG is a great, contributing member of the community who has produced some fantastic gear over the years and continues to do so, but he's a "pro-am"/pollen chucker all the same. Chimera (as I understand it) does actual breeding and selection and has a deep understanding on a scientific level of the cannabis plant, and is one of the most respected names in the business from a technical standpoint -- particularly as it relates to cannabis genetics. I don't even know why you would want to make a pissing contest out of an apples to oranges situation myself, but that's just my opinion.

bigbadbiddy said:

But I can't rightfully justify paying as much or even more for his or Chimera's gear than I am paying for gear of "actual" breeders like ACE, MNS and such...

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Lol then you would be really surprised to know how this "actual" breeders really work or produce seed and what's going on behind the scene/forums. If people is getting any good results it's simply and only because they are almost exclusively working with the remains of what the actual breeders behind their genetics used to provide for them (CBG and Nevil's gear respectively). Just research a bit on their history or genetics and you'll understand.

None of them can even compete with the only guy with the proper skills and knowedge on plant breeding/botany within the seed industry.

Just my 2 cents.



Peace.

Just had a look at this thread quickly.. I notice a few people talking of doing a repro on the serious seed Bubblegum.. If you did an open pollination with their offering you wouldn't be making an F2.. The line is already inbred so you'd probably be making an an f5, f6, or f7 etc... At whatever generation you buy the seeds at then adding another generation on top.

If the line is already heavily inbred, in my opinion, it would better serve to grow a good population from the original seed you buy and find individuals that carry the traits you desire and then S1 each plant. Also cross pollinate each individual with each other for different fem lines. It might then be easier to find the traits you're looking for and also possible to find an individual better then the females you found initially.

Doing a straight open poll is great if you just want loads more seeds of the same gene pool. Yes, you can find the individuals you seek but it'll take much much longer, dedication and space..

Just some thoughts...

I had posted on here about the bazooka joe bubblegum cookies a while back, and how I prayed that I would find some beans in a sack. well almighty Jah answered my prayers and last sack I got had 4 viable beans in it. furthermore at the place I got it, you had to choose between 3 bags. straight up bubblegum blessings that were meant to be.

Nothing beats that old bubblegum clone that was used by Adam and Simon back in the day to make there bubblegum. Someone brought a bag into the flying dutchman seedshop years ago and it was extremely special. Wonder what Adam has to say about that clone it was uber special and I think predates the Indiana clone.

I have read from many sources the bubblegum clone came from the US. In almost every Dutch strain description it states the clone originated in Indiana and was then brought to Holland.

I have a Pure Iranian that reeks of Bubble Gum... like Big League Chew from the days of little league baseball .. it also yields like a redwood tree

So maybe Indiana bubblegum is what Adam an Simon had...man that was some mega smoke. Did Amsterdam lose it or something? . That clone was spot on bazooka bubble gum. Worth a pretty penny that one

You know your shit storm shadow too. Bet that's a nice line. Do you sell your lines bro

There is supposedly a pheno of sensi star in norcal that is an even stronger representation of bubblegum aroma and flavor. Just throwin that out there in case anyone has tried it and can chime in.

Sensi star was so underated. The best clones were hazy but dense buds, an if I remember edd borg has some of the best

Oops.. Wrong thread