Best thing I EVER added to my res...

FRIENDinDEED said:

in your opinion, would I be able to rig this http://www.walmart.com/ip/Tetra-Whi...-Gallon-Acquariums-Power-Filter-1-ct/10291764 up to a 5gl bucket interior and not need an airstone.

I was actually reading another thread that talked about not even really needing airstones in DWC

. . .

Click to expand...

That's the exact filter I have in my EZ cloner...also the same brand I got (just the bigger version) for my regular res. You can either hang them, or the hook comes off and they have a second suction cup which you could use inside the bucket. The only problem I see with that is you would have to keep a keen eye on water level. The top spout has to be above the water...while the pump which sits in the bottom of the unit needs to remain under water. Not that big of a deal really...probably a 4-6" range you need to ride. I just preferred to go fully submersible.

I would still go with an air line anyway...didn't read the thread you referenced (sorry) but any time I've seen people not use air stones they still inject air, just open lined. I know for a fact that that works just fine. But I wouldn't count on these filters to add dissolved O2 into your system. And just my 2 cents...as far as air goes...the more the merrier!! I still have an air line in my bucket.

I wouldn't go with that corner filter super cheapo option...you then need to load it with material...the whisper system it $11..!!!
ELEVEN DOLLARS !! Guy, remember what you are growing here...how much cheaper do you really need it to be to justify the expense? Just think of the reduction in nutes alone with lack of change outs. And for eleven bucks it comes ready to go...plug and play. You don't have to worry about what to load them with...the filter bag comes ready to go, and replacement bags are right there. Cheap and easy. No brainer.

Again, just my 2 cents...

KG

What about plain aquarium gravel or lava rocks, on top of an air stone, in a five gallon bucket? Same concept as a sponge or box filter.

Generally the same concept, yes, but the flow wouldn't be as well directed through the media as with those other filters.

Keep goin said:

That's the exact filter I have in my EZ cloner...also the same brand I got (just the bigger version) for my regular res. You can either hang them, or the hook comes off and they have a second suction cup which you could use inside the bucket. The only problem I see with that is you would have to keep a keen eye on water level. The top spout has to be above the water...while the pump which sits in the bottom of the unit needs to remain under water. Not that big of a deal really...probably a 4-6" range you need to ride. I just preferred to go fully submersible.

I would still go with an air line anyway...didn't read the thread you referenced (sorry) but any time I've seen people not use air stones they still inject air, just open lined. I know for a fact that that works just fine. But I wouldn't count on these filters to add dissolved O2 into your system. And just my 2 cents...as far as air goes...the more the merrier!! I still have an air line in my bucket.

I wouldn't go with that corner filter super cheapo option...you then need to load it with material...the whisper system it $11..!!!
ELEVEN DOLLARS !! Guy, remember what you are growing here...how much cheaper do you really need it to be to justify the expense? Just think of the reduction in nutes alone with lack of change outs. And for eleven bucks it comes ready to go...plug and play. You don't have to worry about what to load them with...the filter bag comes ready to go, and replacement bags are right there. Cheap and easy. No brainer.

Again, just my 2 cents...

KG

Click to expand...

I hear you man, ive been gathering information and that filter looks like a damned good option because I am still thinking that I would like to still add some O2 in there some how. if I go with that option then I stil have my air pumps and stones left so adding them to the system wont be a problem. it may take some time but if I can get a DWC "unit" that can seriously function without too much hassle then im all for it.

I want to set one up and see how each one would do. was thinking about using and "uninhabited" part of the house, set up a bucket or two with some store bought plants. one bucket with the submersible filter and one with the whisper system just to see how each one does.

***was at my brothers place and snagged his submersible from his unused tank.

like I said in previous posts, I cant remember where ive seen the thread/posts, whether it was on here or OG when it was up BUT I do remember hearing about it. didn't think about it again until I was runnin my 2gl DWC's and saw the gunk build up on the tubing and inside the bucket in general. so I know that the money would be well worth it.

the sensibility of the whisper system is that I wouldn't need the airstones "necessarily". im willing to run the units without airstones in confidence that things would run just fine.

once I get some money up again im gonna get one and then do my side by side.. lol, I was actually thinking about taking the dual airpump I just bought back and get the whisper pump (hell, the more I think about it, the more im leaning towards doing it)

some ppl are fortunate enough to have nice clean pH stable, healthy soft water but where I am I have to take all types of precautions in dealing with the water out here. pH is round about 9 if not higher, the build up on the shower walls and head is indicative enough, its heavy as opposed to soft water so im not gonna go through all this testing business to find out whats obviously in my face.

this is a "starter house" for me and my wife we don't plan on staying here for too many more years anyway so im not gonna dump too much more loot into it.

gonna get my buckets in order so that they can handle what the water has to offer and deal with it

QUESTION: am I correct in understanding that what you guys are saying about the filters, in regard to cleaning, is that I actually want some of that bacteria there/on it, due to the fact that, that stuff is beneficial to the water chemistry and plant health? I was reading various things online and they made mention of the same thing, that the sponges/filter material shouldn't be completely washed but just rung out and rinsed "somewhat". is this all true?

and any word about the relationship between plant health and that zeolite additive that your supposed to mix with the carbon in the submersible filters?

QUESTION: am I correct in understanding that what you guys are saying about the filters, in regard to cleaning, is that I actually want some of that bacteria there/on it, due to the fact that, that stuff is beneficial to the water chemistry and plant health? I was reading various things online and they made mention of the same thing, that the sponges/filter material shouldn't be completely washed but just rung out and rinsed "somewhat". is this all true?

and any word about the relationship between plant health and that zeolite additive that your supposed to mix with the carbon in the submersible filters?

As I understand zeolite is a filtering agent. It will do a far better job of removing your Nutrients from your water than carbon. zeolite is not normally used for harboring and cultivating bacteria (Good or bad).

I don't think the actual filtration is wanted or needed. As we are trying to remove only the bad parts and give a place for good bacteria to live. The good bacteria will feed on unwanted materials and help to stablize your water.

I could be wrong. My 2 cents would be to use your choice of media (Bio Balls, Floss, Fluval blocks) and to also run your water thru a basic pad. I personally think the whisper listed before is a perfect filter if used with some fine fluval material. Or even corse crushed coral. The coral would try to bump your ph up and break down adding calicum, and harbor your ben bacteria. With the return water splashing down disturbing the Resvoir surface adding O2 to your system.

I think with all the wanting to reinvent the wheel someone needs to state the obvious. Lets Keep it simple. KISS. Pass water thru some Media then thru a pad Splash into resivor.

Again my 2Cents

Gruetoo

Thank you to all who participated in this thread. I have learned much!

Bio balls work really well as a media.

Im going to do this

Im going to do this

Filter Fanatics,

What would be the difference between running chemical nutes vs organic with this filter?

Also, would high levels of non-organic phosphorous kill these beneficials in the filter?

Thanks
-~WW~-

IM SOLD!!!

IM SOLD!!!

just came back from mornin' shoppin at walmart and took a closer look at the whisper filter and yeah im sold on it due to simple factors/comparisons:
1.
dual output airpump+airstone=$14+tax
OR
whisper filter=11+tax

2.
many parts to deal with; something goes bad you may not know it (been there, done that)
OR
one part,one system something goes bad very inexpensive to replace

im sure there are more but those are my main concerns. while at walmart I took it out of the box since thinking about it, I ad some mounting questions. for those who may be interested, the filter has a mounting/hanging hook that has 3 adjustable slots/notches to it.

the hook itself is plastic and longer than it needs to be so you can drill a couple more notch holes to make it go deeper into your container if need be. the suction cup is a nice/necessary touch. nice long cord to reach to the 6 strip

im thinking that what I can do is cut a notch/slit right under the lip of the bucket so it doesn't hinder the lid from closing all the way ( . . . thinking . . .) maybe even drill a small hole or sizable hole next to the slit in order to fit the cord through as well.

all in all, its summing up to fit to my specific needs of filtration and like I said the only thing is mounting it, but im sold.

Gruetoo said:

QUESTION: am I correct in understanding that what you guys are saying about the filters, in regard to cleaning, is that I actually want some of that bacteria there/on it, due to the fact that, that stuff is beneficial to the water chemistry and plant health? I was reading various things online and they made mention of the same thing, that the sponges/filter material shouldn't be completely washed but just rung out and rinsed "somewhat". is this all true?

and any word about the relationship between plant health and that zeolite additive that your supposed to mix with the carbon in the submersible filters?

As I understand zeolite is a filtering agent. It will do a far better job of removing your Nutrients from your water than carbon. zeolite is not normally used for harboring and cultivating bacteria (Good or bad).

I don't think the actual filtration is wanted or needed. As we are trying to remove only the bad parts and give a place for good bacteria to live. The good bacteria will feed on unwanted materials and help to stablize your water.

I could be wrong. My 2 cents would be to use your choice of media (Bio Balls, Floss, Fluval blocks) and to also run your water thru a basic pad. I personally think the whisper listed before is a perfect filter if used with some fine fluval material. Or even corse crushed coral. The coral would try to bump your ph up and break down adding calicum, and harbor your ben bacteria. With the return water splashing down disturbing the Resvoir surface adding O2 to your system.

I think with all the wanting to reinvent the wheel someone needs to state the obvious. Lets Keep it simple. KISS. Pass water thru some Media then thru a pad Splash into resivor.

Again my 2Cents

Gruetoo

Click to expand...

your right, and for "me" to do that I wanted to investigate and ask the proper questions BECAUSE even if I wanted to get the whisper filter BUT upon further discussion I found/find out that the smaller submersible filter would do just as fine of a job, from the aspect of biology may even do a naturally better job, then I would save even more money and time.

if im not mistaken somewhere in the thread someone mentioned about about doing fine not only without the zeolite but not too much carbon and actually having more of the filter material would be more beneficial in the long run.

I agree with keeping it simple but I think that we should find out what is actually simple first. if you ask me, from what ive read of the thread, that whole bio-bucket setup is as simple as it can get but im not willing to get that deep into it right now and the only problems ive ever had with hydro is all the gunk buildup on the tubing and whats left floating on the bottom of my buckets.

yeah its easy to clean out at the end but im thinking about the roots and what's going on during the run. in a nutshell IMO what's easiest is eventually what's best overall but at the same time I don't want to miss anything

Friend, to me it seems that even an undergravel filter or simple trickle filter could work very well here.

I cannot answer the question about high P, in aquaria that typically leads to algae blooms. With high Si, you can expect diatomaceous blooms (typically are golden brown in color, look like a dusting on the bottom surfaces).

Frankly, I was surprised to read what I've been reading at all. I did not expect these aquatic critters* to survive, let alone live long and well enough in this environment to do anything. My take is that it's worth a try, though.

I would like to note that in the trade, when we had a large system to get up and running (several thousand gallons) we would often pee in the sumps (reservoir to us) to help get the microbe populations going before we put any fish in there. We would also use some fish food, allowed to decompose. These are generally felt to be better options for getting a system started than putting fish in there and exposing them to all that stress, especially salties.

FRIENDinDEED said:

***was at my brothers place and snagged his submersible from his unused tank.

Click to expand...

Point it UP, make that water turbulent. Equals best CO2/O2 exchange.

FRIENDinDEED said:

some ppl are fortunate enough to have nice clean pH stable, healthy soft water but where I am I have to take all types of precautions in dealing with the water out here. pH is round about 9 if not higher, the build up on the shower walls and head is indicative enough, its heavy as opposed to soft water so im not gonna go through all this testing business to find out whats obviously in my face.

Click to expand...

You mean hard as opposed to soft water (mineral/carbonate-laden, as opposed to low mineral or carbonate/bicarbonate levels).

You can pack that filter with peat moss to naturally soften and acidify that water. You'll likely need to change it out, so I would suggest using another container and filtering that volume of water first, with the peat moss (pack it in pantyhose or something like that. I've got a million old-timer tricks for fishkeeping stuff and lots of 'em begin with pantyhose). Don't pack it so tightly that the water runs around it, just pack some peat in there and let it do its thing. Should take a couple of days or so, depending on factors like the flow rate through the filter and the volume of water you're filtering, as well as the true total hardness.

I used to do this for all the wild-caught South and Central American fishes that couldn't tolerate our hard, high pH SoCal water. I guarantee you, it works and it works GREAT.

FRIENDinDEED said:

QUESTION: am I correct in understanding that what you guys are saying about the filters, in regard to cleaning, is that I actually want some of that bacteria there/on it, due to the fact that, that stuff is beneficial to the water chemistry and plant health? I was reading various things online and they made mention of the same thing, that the sponges/filter material shouldn't be completely washed but just rung out and rinsed "somewhat". is this all true?

and any word about the relationship between plant health and that zeolite additive that your supposed to mix with the carbon in the submersible filters?

Click to expand...

Yes, apparently it's the bacteria that are at work here, and if that's the case, you don't want to disturb your culture more than you have to. Don't wring out too hard, in fact, it's usually advised to clean in sections, week by week, so you don't kill off too much of your herd.


*If aquatic microbes are what we're dealing with. This is what I believe is true, but am not entirely certain as to the species here.

ELAAAAATION!!!

ELAAAAATION!!!

SeaMaiden said:

Friend, to me it seems that even an undergravel filter or simple trickle filter could work very well here.

I cannot answer the question about high P, in aquaria that typically leads to algae blooms. With high Si, you can expect diatomaceous blooms (typically are golden brown in color, look like a dusting on the bottom surfaces).

Frankly, I was surprised to read what I've been reading at all. I did not expect these aquatic critters* to survive, let alone live long and well enough in this environment to do anything. My take is that it's worth a try, though.

I would like to note that in the trade, when we had a large system to get up and running (several thousand gallons) we would often pee in the sumps (reservoir to us) to help get the microbe populations going before we put any fish in there. We would also use some fish food, allowed to decompose. These are generally felt to be better options for getting a system started than putting fish in there and exposing them to all that stress, especially salties.

Point it UP, make that water turbulent. Equals best CO2/O2 exchange.

You mean hard as opposed to soft water (mineral/carbonate-laden, as opposed to low mineral or carbonate/bicarbonate levels).

You can pack that filter with peat moss to naturally soften and acidify that water. You'll likely need to change it out, so I would suggest using another container and filtering that volume of water first, with the peat moss (pack it in pantyhose or something like that. I've got a million old-timer tricks for fishkeeping stuff and lots of 'em begin with pantyhose). Don't pack it so tightly that the water runs around it, just pack some peat in there and let it do its thing. Should take a couple of days or so, depending on factors like the flow rate through the filter and the volume of water you're filtering, as well as the true total hardness.

I used to do this for all the wild-caught South and Central American fishes that couldn't tolerate our hard, high pH SoCal water. I guarantee you, it works and it works GREAT.

Yes, apparently it's the bacteria that are at work here, and if that's the case, you don't want to disturb your culture more than you have to. Don't wring out too hard, in fact, it's usually advised to clean in sections, week by week, so you don't kill off too much of your herd.


*If aquatic microbes are what we're dealing with. This is what I believe is true, but am not entirely certain as to the species here.

Click to expand...

THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH!!! these are the answers I was looking for verification on and what you are saying is what I have been reading about on most of the aquarium sites I bumped into, just wanted to make the correlation between the plant and fish world.

I knew there couldn't be that much of a difference since there are aquatic plants but im a layman to these things so I need to get that "peace of mind" verification, ya know?

and your correct, I didn't make that specific but I do mean that my water is hard as all to be damned!! I guess mentioning the soft and not mentioning the hard could make it all confusing.

please SeaMaiden, if there is anything else that you could mention or talk about from your experience that could get other wheels turning on this topic I would appreciate it. the more concerns that can be viewed and discussed the more concrete of a method or addition to hydroponics can be solidified.

festerous said:

Bio balls work really well as a media.

Click to expand...

Interesting.

There's a pretty huge range of bio media out there: balls, cylinders, rings, stars, tubes, plastic shavings, sintered glass droplets, lava rock... ulimately it seems like anything porous will do. Hydroton pellets? I use them everywhere else...

cravin morehead said:

i used to use these:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+3954&pcatid=3954

used them for years before i just went all the way to bio-buckets. they are cheap, very effective, and only used an air pump. any hydro grower has got some air pumps lying around. plus, the add aeration.

Click to expand...

Those look awesome. Filtration, bio media, and aeration in one cheap package. I get colonies of *something* in my airstones anyway, so why not do it on purpose?

Like SeaMaiden says, you can just squeeze them out to clean, versus throwing out a clogged airstone.

quinoa64 said:

Interesting.

There's a pretty huge range of bio media out there: balls, cylinders, rings, stars, tubes, plastic shavings, sintered glass droplets, lava rock... ultimately it seems like anything porous will do. Hydroton pellets? I use them everywhere else...



Those look awesome. Filtration, bio media, and aeration in one cheap package. I get colonies of *something* in my air stones anyway, so why not do it on purpose?

Like SeaMaiden says, you can just squeeze them out to clean, versus throwing out a clogged air stone.

Click to expand...

I would have to say no on the Hydroton Pellets. As I understand, they are sealed. Water does not pass thru them. They do not have pores. The micro pores are where the Bacteria will live. There will be areas where the pellets touch other pellets the bacteria will survive. But just not allot of area. The bio balls and other material like is are very porous.

Gruetoo

for best use of beneficial bacterium, they should have their highest concentrations in the root zone. thats why bio-bucket grows use lava rock in the net cups. bio-balls or any other bio media would work great too. the bennies will basically cover your roots with a shield of protection. lava rock mediums also add silica to the system further aiding in keeping plants strong and healthy. if you were not going to run bio-buckets, i feel these:

with a powerhead or just an airpump would be the easiest, cheapest, and most usable type of bio filter for what you guys are talking about. no media BS, just aeration and bennies. does not affect nutes at all. can be used in any type system.



cm

My only concern would be roots taking up residence in the foam.

Exquisite reef tank, hammerhead. My discus tanks are very spartan-

http://s908.beta.photobucket.com/user/Jhhnn/library/fish

It's all about the fish rather than the aquascape. They actually have personality, and they're very sensitive to poor water conditions. They're clowns.

I use sponge filters, and my experience is that it's impossible to really damage the bacterial colonies in established sponges by wringing them out in tank water. They've colonized hugely at the microscopic level, and are embedded forever in the sponge matrix. Chlorinated tap water will kill 'em off, so use Prime water conditioner.

It's not surprising that they'll thrive in the nutrient rich milieu of hydro reservoirs, or that they'll keep other undesirables from taking over.

Anybody who has large reservoirs & lots of air might want to look into Kaldnes media, supposedly great stuff.

Shiii-iiit... Jhhnn, we can NOT let my husband see this! You're breeding them, yes?

The vast majority of my own experience is not as a hobbyist, but in the trade itself. That means huge numbers of fish. I've seen what can happen if you damage the biological filter (kill off too many microbes) and the tank stocking density is high. This is specifically why I personally have recommended against wringing out the media too hard, because my assumption is the water column in this scenario is high in nutrients.

SeaMaiden said:

Shiii-iiit... Jhhnn, we can NOT let my husband see this! You're breeding them, yes?

The vast majority of my own experience is not as a hobbyist, but in the trade itself. That means huge numbers of fish. I've seen what can happen if you damage the biological filter (kill off too many microbes) and the tank stocking density is high. This is specifically why I personally have recommended against wringing out the media too hard, because my assumption is the water column in this scenario is high in nutrients.

Click to expand...

Not breeding- too many irons in the fire, too much of everything else to do. I'm hoping to retire at the end of the year, have more time for it, and for my return to happy time gardening. Putting that together has kept me occupied recently.

Things have definitely changed over the last 25 years, so I'm playing catch-up, mostly via ICMag, which is a great site with intelligent posters & a welcome paucity of twits & trolls. I just try to learn, be polite, add what little I know...

Seems like you are just adding another "net pot" in effect. Just dripping the water through a colonized net pot of lava rock would do the same thing NO? Just like others have said ..biobuckets. seems like you are adding complexity with little benefit. Not hating mind you it is a cool idea just seems redundant.
HM

doing further research I found some youtube DIY's, these would save me so much loot and would do exactly what I need the filter to do, im gonna be using them in 5gl and 2gl buckets, i'll already be using what I have, don't have to buy any "new equipment" but just different supplies. if my math is correct I can make atleast 6 or 7 of these, if not more, with the cost of one whisper filter:

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXDzgM9x3tc&list=PL8A69C457940B725D

2.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5nHQEyEZQQ&list=PL8A69C457940B725D
***could use the scrubbers in smaller applications

3.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIoOfgZnqFo&list=PL8A69C457940B725D

4.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wjK_DvXtwA&list=PL8A69C457940B725D
***maybe for a large rez down the line?

5.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1Wodw8n71Q&list=PL8A69C457940B725D
***he shows a tank/filter with the beneficial bacteria he was talking about

well what do you guys think?