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True Terpenes VISCOSITY extract liquifier LAB TESTS: Mineral oil but no terps!!

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ExtractNinja

Member
Weird said:
so much of the old guard seems protective of IP they say they have no attachment to that people increasingly question their intent

you would think they might consider their place in causation other than denial and apathy
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You took the words out of my mouth.

I dont like to assume things about people and companies but if theres smoke there is sometimes fire. Thats why i had three tests done on Viscotiy before posting. I didnt post after the first test like nearly 100% of other people would have. I gave TT the benefit of the doubt while costing me hundreds of dollars and Im pilloried for it, smh. I just cant win lol.
 
Weird

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
personally I try not to conflate their past efforts and benefits to the community with the impression people get by their behavior

just because the community is in this place doesn't mean they crafted everything for this purpose or that there is a real intent but rather their views, attitudes and methodology might simply be that foreign to the expectations of the greater audience

this is where the sticky wicket of liability in a situation it is because some may be just continuing their own life's work without any ill intent whatsoever

it is a new day and age where our actions are under a microscope and we are expected to be beyond human in our expectations of each other

we collectively shape humanity so this is all to say that we should temper our frustrations and simply look for protocol and methodology that appeal to all parties for a greater purpose

not impossible going to take a effort from all parties to find that happy medium that benefits the purpose of all this in the first place

the quality of our relationship with marijuana and the quality of the relationship marijuana has with us because as abstract as it seems it matters
 
Ringodoggie

Ringodoggie

Well-known member
Premium user
Actually, I was referring to Weird with the comment from Blazing Saddles. He writes very well. Albeit, his avatar freaks me out [is that really you, Weird? LOL]

But I absolutely agree with what you are doing, Ninja. Although, I don't believe for one second that you're going to get an honest answers from some of the people currently involved. I see way too much collusion.

Good luck in your quest.






.
 
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ExtractNinja

Member
Ringodoggie said:
Actually, I was referring to Weird with the comment from Blazing Saddles. He writes very well. Albeit, his avatar freaks me out [is that really you, Weird? LOL]

But I absolutely agree with what you are doing, Ninja. Although, I don't believe for one second that you're going to get an honest answers from some of the people currently involved. I see way too much collusion.

Good luck in your quest.
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LOl i looks foolish. thanks : )
 
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ExtractNinja

Member
Ringodoggie said:
[is that really you, Weird? LOL]
.
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Unless he works in an office selling paper, with a boss's named Michael, driving a rad red camaro, farming beets, living in Scranton, Pennsylvania, and real name Dwit (edit: Dwight), no : D


(that is the actor Dwight from the show The Office, with a rad dreadlock addonn)
 
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Ringodoggie

Ringodoggie

Well-known member
Premium user
Whew, thanks. LOL

I have not owned a TV for over 40 years so I wouldn't recognize anyone but The Beaver or maybe Barney Fife. LOL TV is another tool of the Shepherd to direct the Sheeple.








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ExtractNinja

Member
Finally a new test result! While its not all inclusive and its too limited in compounds looked for, its at least something.

Someone at future420 named Cbdgoodlife posted this. I am going to see if he can post the test publicly. This certainly backs me up more than TT and Future, but again it isnt the type of testing we need:

https://future4200.com/t/true-terpenes/12544/162
Any update if this is terpenes yet? I have seen a recent terpene lab test from SC labs which tests for around 30 terpenes and the results came back non detected for terpenes. Not sure if that’s the proper way to try and find out if this is actually terpenes our not as I think they just test for the top 30+ terpenes that are in cannabis, but that’s at least what I seen. I’m curious like most on this site.
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ExtractNinja

Member
The whole True Terpenes thread at Future4200 is really worth reading. The thread is much shorter than this one and is basically all about this issue, and it can be read in a short time:
https://future4200.com/t/true-terpenes/12544

There are some very smart people in there making very good points that no one here has made (except in some cases G.O. Joe), regarding my tests results, TT's tests results, and that Viscosity could be from plants and still be as bad as mineral oil from petroleum, such as vegetable oil which is terrible to vape (anyone want lipoid pneumonia?), etc.

Mostly Im taking about MagisterChemist but there are a few other people too. I am not talking about drjackhughes or Future himself. I suggest everyone read it if they are interested in this topic.

One of the good points made by MagisterChemist at Future420 is it appears my tests and TTs tests are of the same material. Meaning I didnt adulterate or swap out Viscosity like I have been saying this whole time, but also like I have been getting accused of by TT, future, etc. It also means there are zero terps in Viscosity!

heres two good posts from that thread, there are many more by MagisterChemist:

https://future4200.com/t/true-terpenes/12544/137
MagisterChemist said:
You know I said I was done but I need to say some more things (guess i’m an addict). Look at the results that Future posted and look at the results ExtractNinja posted. I have to say if you look at the actual content of the chromatograms, there is really no provable difference. Of course the retention times and shapes are somewhat different, they were run with totally different GC ramp profiles. So I am not really seeing evidence at this point that anyone faked any results. They kinda look the same to me. To make that declaration, you’d have to actually get two tests done under the same GC conditions and equipment.

Instead what is different is only a disagreement on the previous labs having done a tentative ID of mineral oil. Well look at the results. They are totally lacking in resolution and make no real effort to ID the content. They are both a mess of peaks and show every appearance of being some environmentally derived substance, not a few hand-picked compounds. So cool, we showed it’s [probably] not mineral oil [derived from petroleum]. It’s some mess of alkanes of a somewhat lighter nature than mineral oil [, but its not terpens].

And lo an behold what i said would come to pass has come to pass. If you look on all the other forums everyone is saying “Oh TT has been exonerated! It’s not mineral oil! It’s… something else… who cares, light up”. And everyone has retreated to the nihilistic position of “well vaping anything is bad, so who cares what we’re putting in our carts”. If that’s your attitude why did anyone care if it was mineral oil in the first place? Why not put mineral oil in your carts? If everything is bad to vape so who cares, what exactly have people been arguing about for 130 posts?

I don’t even know what people care about anymore. Do we care about mineral oil contamination because it’s a spoooooky name, or because we want something with proven safety? If it’s the former go ahead, I guess TT has been cleared. If it’s the latter maybe look in a different direction.
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https://future4200.com/t/true-terpenes/12544/77
G.O. Joe said:
The GC column, temperature program, and results there are typical for mineral oils. It would not matter if the same alkanes came from plants instead. What do I care?
MagisterChemist said:
And that’s what i’m talking about. Everyone has zoomed in on “mineral oil” and the vibe i’m getting is that if it turned out to be vegetable oil, everyone would be ready to exonerate this product. What happened to everyone being afraid of lipid pneumonia? People shouldn’t be like “my god, I might have been smoking mineral oil this whole time”, the problem goes back well before that point. They should have already been saying “my god, I’m smoking some concoction of completely unknown materials, with no assurance of their safety other than being ‘plant derived’.”


We shouldn’t accept “it’s proprietary” as an answer when it comes to things we’re inhaling.
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ExtractNinja

Member
Good news : )

Just heard from Old Gold (hambread at Future) that he will ask the lab for an eta on his testing.Hopefully we will have that testing very soon because its beging test at full cost

im paying for the testing but Old Gold did all the leg work and purchased the sample and got it to the lab.

Thanks OG!!!!
 
G.O. Joe

G.O. Joe

Well-known member
Veteran
If there are no peaks in the retention times mono-, sesqui-, and diterpenes are normally found in, it's not a reach to say there are none present. Identification by MS other than mw is not trivial, because different MS can give different fragments and I wouldn't depend on free databases - what I looked at from Agilent/HP was like the most expensive CD ever. Plant fats are of course triglycerides, and giving some the biodiesel treatment would change the chromatogram completely. If a sample of alkanes is boiled with acids, bases, and oxidizers, nothing changes. If you spike a sample with what you think it may be such as squalene or squalane, you can then see when that peak shows up on the FID and how much bigger it may be, so a competent operator can learn a lot and take a good guess at the number of carbons without actually identifying anything or using MS.
 
Gray Wolf

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
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ICMag Donor
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Good job Old Gold!

My resources are giving their mothers and daughters more priority today, but I will have a status update tomorrow after I've reviewed status with them.

My last status update was that they needed to follow their GC-MS analysis with HPLC-MS to identify all the constituents.

As committed, I forwarded EN's offer to pay to speed up the tests and asked for a budget based on their analysis to date.

I also suggested that he read the full content of this thread to put everything in perspective and if concerned, consider outlining the required tests based on their findings to date, and employing a blind 4th party lab, who works out financial arrangements with EN directly, prior to testing.

More Monday.
 
D

DemonTrich

Active member
Veteran
Its 125 a test from my lab. I dont mind dishing out the cash for lab results if it helps the community and the people who use these products.

They do take between 3-4 weeks for the results.
 
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p0opstlnksal0t

Active member
If no shenanigans have been perpetrated why did true terpenes change the description of their diluent?

VISCOSITY is the original flavorless odorless diluent made with a blend of botanically derived extracts. It does not contain PG, VG, PEG, MCT or Coconut oil. VISCOSITY is plant-derived, natural, non-GMO, and organic.
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So I guess it's safe to say they are admitting it's not 100% terpene blend now?
 
Weird

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
when someone opens a new business sometimes they emulate what they have seen happen in the business world out of a "knee jerk" reaction

that sounds good ...

doesn't mean they opened the business with direct intention to label the product in a way that it deceives it might have just sundered smart when they made the marketing content


to note this is why if the allegations are too extreme people dismiss them because they don't see everything in sharp polarities
 
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ExtractNinja

Member
p0opstlnksal0t said:
If no shenanigans have been perpetrated why did true terpenes change the description of their diluent?

So I guess it's safe to say they are admitting it's not 100% terpene blend now?
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What their trying to do is have their cake and eat it too by claiming they made the change because there are terpenoids in Viscosity along with terpens. They claim they are trying to be more clear to their customers. Even Future is hanging his hat on the BS, I saw him post something on IG about that the other day.

Its so funny because terpenoids are a type of teprene. They fall under the class of terpene. So, if TT claims Visoacity is 100% terps, and it's all terpenoids, then its 100% terps, smh! From wikipedia: "Terpenoids are modified terpenes, wherein methyl groups have been moved or removed, or oxygen atoms added".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terpenoid

Examples of terpenoids include the well known citral, linalool, and alpha-bisabolol.

How stupid does TT and Future (Dustin) think we are? They flat out lie to us and think we will just buy it hook, line, and sinker? A simple Google search tells anyone with half a brain that TT and Future are pulling a fast one. It really gets me mad how much disdain they appear to have for the truth. Both TT and Future are equally guilty of this fraud now, imo.

Future: have you ever heard the saying if you lie with dogs you get fleas? If not, now you have.
 
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Old Gold

Active member
Update from my lab:
"So we took two tt viscosity mixes: one from a prominent Oakland brand we do terp testing for and one from you. The two Chromatograms looked essentially the same on our method, a lot of nothing. We may just need to extend the method to see more stuff.
I’m working on getting _____’s time to do that, he’s working a lot on terp testing and has been busy.
Can send chromatograms of the initial runs later today."
 
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ExtractNinja

Member
Old Gold said:
Update from my lab:
"So we took two tt viscosity mixes: one from a prominent Oakland brand we do terp testing for and one from you. The two Chromatograms looked essentially the same on our method, a lot of nothing. We may just need to extend the method to see more stuff.
I’m working on getting _____’s time to do that, he’s working a lot on terp testing and has been busy.
Can send chromatograms of the initial runs later today."
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Wow, well that puts the final nail in the coffin as far as Im concerned. TT is clearly lying, the truth is they include zero terps in Viscosity. And its so great they tested two different samples!

That means they found zero terpenes and zero terpenoids, just like Ive been saying this whole time! Now we have three different people reporting results. So, thats my three tests, a test from SD that Cbdgoodlife saw that showed no terps, and now your tests shows no terps. Would love to see the chromatograms when available.

So we are left the with most pressing question: now that we all should agree there are zero terpenes and zero terpenoids in Visocity, what the hell is it? That is what your testing, Graywolfs testing, and my testing at Pace Labs should show.

I am glad to pay for any additional testing they think is required. And if they offer rush testing I would be willing to pay for that too. I would really love it if they can tell us what is in there considering there are zero terps (and zero terpenoids).

Great job!!!!! You reaally did a good thing!
 
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