True Terpenes VISCOSITY extract liquifier LAB TESTS: Mineral oil but no terps!!

dnb4ever · Mar 15, 2019

If ExtractNinja is "wrong", what is that implying exactly? Does that mean the test was fake, or does that mean that those batches are mineral oil?

I will tell you this; I'm not vaping another cartridge until the results are in on this, and if it's as bad as it seems, every single cart is suspect (except maybe like live rosin?).

Sertaiz · Mar 15, 2019

ExtractNinja said:
Me too. I would be happy if I was proven wrong.

i feel this way about a lot of things, and they are mostly unproven..... this is an awesome process. technology and truth.....

Gray Wolf · Mar 15, 2019

Future4200 said:
Glad to hear from you Gray Wolf, its been some time.

Extractninja, will do. I'll have a buddy order a bottle right now.

Same same brother. How quickly the days turn into years...

If you will email or PM me the lot number from the sample that you pickup, I will strive to find a different one.

p0opstlnksal0t · Mar 15, 2019

dnb4ever said:
If ExtractNinja is "wrong", what is that implying exactly? Does that mean the test was fake, or does that mean that those batches are mineral oil?

It could be either i suppose. No offense to EN but we dont know him. its easy enough to start an online campaign against a company to hurt their business. then again its not unlike a company such as this to make mistakes which should have been caught. Now if someone were to prove that TT covered this up and lied about it then ew have some even more serious issues at play.

MJPassion · Mar 15, 2019

dnb4ever said:
I will tell you this; I'm not vaping another cartridge until the results are in on this, and if it's as bad as it seems, every single cart is suspect (except maybe like live rosin?).

Agreed.

Who know what cart manufacturers are using to "flavor" or "thin" their products. No doubt this "VISCOSITY" stuff has been put to commercial use so the question is WHO (what companies) has been using this stuff in their carts? These folks need to be informed of this fiasco A.S.A.P. so they can look out, first, for their customers and second, for their own integrity.

Because TT is basically the marketing agent & distributor for this particular product, it is ultimately their responsibility to ensure that their products are safe for consumption.

As far as I am concerned...
Until this fiasco is resolved, and every single batch of viscosity ever produced QC tested, viscosity should be pulled from the market... period...

There is enough evidence, on these pages alone, to shut them (True Terpenes) down due to possible health concerns.

TT, The burden of proof is on you.
Best to take care of the issue here among your peers rather than a court of law and completely loose your business all together to legal fees.
If you ARE unknowingly selling mineral oil that is your fault and you are still responsible to your customers. It is NOT the fault of the consumers that are paying your bills so stop with the lame finger pointing and get your butts to work.

As a side note...
My bro picked up these YOCANs that fit on top of a vape mod.
These cans require zero thinning to use your favorite oils/rosins.
Just toss a glob of oil in and vape as normal. Hell, with these cans there's no need to dewax but dewaxed products taste better.

MJPassion · Mar 15, 2019

p0opstlnksal0t said:
It could be either i suppose. No offense to EN but we dont know him. its easy enough to start an online campaign against a company to hurt their business. then again its not unlike a company such as this to make mistakes which should have been caught. Now if someone were to prove that TT covered this up and lied about it then ew have some even more serious issues at play.

We don't know TT either.

What we do know is that EN has provided some measure of proof of this fiasco while TT has only attacked EN in order to defend their position while providing NOTHING else to rebut EN's claim other than a "TRUST ME" statement.

WHY is TT not providing any evidence to support their claim and instead attacking the messager?

Mr D · Mar 15, 2019

Is it safe to conclude that True Terpenes is just repackaging Chinese made Terpenes?

As someone who imports from China I don't put any stock in ISO certification of Chinese manufacturers.

Gray Wolf · Mar 15, 2019

Most of us know neither entity, but this debate has spilled onto page 21 without resolution, so begs a new approach.

I noted that I was friends with one of their competitors, but didn't share that i consider another of their competitors a sociopath, capable of saying and doing about anything to serve his ends. The denizens of this forum know of whom I speak.

I noted that TT's reputation with key competitors is good, simply to note that the jury of their peers had not already delivered a verdict of most probable guilt, like they have with the person referenced above.

I also didn't note that I'm aware of at least some of the shenanigans played in the terpene marketplace, from my research, which included publishing Sweet Mary's Charms, I, II, and III, the former of which was reprinted in Terpenes and Testing Magazine.

My intervention here is simply to obtain a neutral third party sample and insure the chain of custody to a third party lab, whom will test to our criteria, not in any referee or judge position.

I will share the results to the extent that the tests answer the question before us, as opposed to actual proprietary content, unless those results open new questions with areas of concern.

The readership will have to draw their own conclusions from the empirical results. The person paying for the tests of course has the option of sharing under their own volition.

We also haven't heard from True Terpenes in this last exchange. Can ya'll suggest a list of places where we can randomly select a representative sample?

Any suggestions from your perspective on how to proceed?

p0opstlnksal0t · Mar 15, 2019

TT is an established brand and some would say they have reputable backing and friendships in this industry. not that it would mean a lot to regular folk like myself. but i would say they have a lot of skin in the game.

ExtractNinja (no offense to him if he does pan out to be legit) only joined to post said findings on ICmag. I do see the reasoning for staying hidden out of fear of doxxing but it surely adds a strike to his credibility.

I am no TT cheerleader and I think FloraP is at least as good quality maybe better and for far less $$$ but I tend to withhold judgement until i know facts. I wouldnt mind seeing FloraP have their diluents sent through GC-MS as well. We dont really have facts that can be confirmed besides pictures of results that any graphic saavy person could forge. However i think TT dropped the ball in defending themselves and the way they tried to disprove EN's findings were far too uninspired.

I believe these terpene companies are trying to keep their formulas secret, which adds another level of complexity to the whole gc-ms testing scenario. im not sure whats really holding them up but a gc-ms or hplc test would actually decipher the terpene diluents along with the % of each. is TT too far in the hole now with this thread to come out of it squeaky clean and not reveal their magic potion formula? that i dont know, but i put my bag of popcorn in the microwave. :lurk:

this was bound to happen with a "secret formula" additives that get vaped and ingested...

MJPassion said:
We don't know TT either.

What we do know is that EN has provided some measure of proof of this fiasco while TT has only attacked EN in order to defend their position while providing NOTHING else to rebut EN's claim other than a "TRUST ME" statement.

WHY is TT not providing any evidence to support their claim and instead attacking the messager?

p0opstlnksal0t · Mar 15, 2019

Mr D said:
Is it safe to conclude that True Terpenes is just repackaging Chinese made Terpenes?

As someone who imports from China I don't put any stock in ISO certification of Chinese manufacturers.

If thats the case then i would agree. Is there any reason for us to believe they are repackaging china terps?

Sertaiz · Mar 15, 2019

cost benefit, and legality basically guarantee that any legal cost will be cut if they already wont tell us whats in the magic oil... because its trade protected and fda passed.

so if betting were legal i would bet on them sourcing their raw product as cheaply as possible while still maintaining fda standards.

Mr D · Mar 15, 2019

True Terpenes said

"We are re-auditing our suppliers, confirming with the 3rd party labs that their equipment is calibrated because our first round of investigation yielded nothing but what we expected"

Future4200 said

(Although TT sent their QC lady to the ISO facility to verify the product in person).

That leads me to believe they are just repackaging Chinese made Terpenes.

Chinese manufacturers/suppliers has been caught selling poison dog food and baby food to name a few things. So certifications and FDA approvals are useless to me.

AgentPothead · Mar 15, 2019

I can't speak to who's getting what where, but if anybody is sourcing anything in China, you better be paying a full time employee to stay there and oversee operations.

p0opstlnksal0t · Mar 15, 2019

Interesting thoughts from drjackhughes on f4200

drjackhughes said:
I heard about this today on future4200’s video.

So, we have a mystery. Is the diluent terpene/terpenoid or mineral oil...how about both!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pristane

It’s a terpenoid, colorless and odorless, good boiling range, just below guaiol, high end of the sesquiterpenes in Cannabis sativa, commercially available, and it’s from sharks! No one likes those prehistoric tubes of death...

I’m not saying that this is what they use, but there are a number of hydrocarbons that would be “terpenes”, in plants, that are in the same mass ranges of mineral oils.

I worked with steam stilled Cannabis Essential oil on the liter scale and wondered what was in it...

That led me to this: https://www.medicinalgenomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Chemical-constituents-of-cannabis.pdf

Follow to reference 35, pull that paper (there may be a better link...)

https://eurekamag.com/pdf/004/004697413.pdf

Conclusion: 0.7% content of higher alkanes in the essential oil.

If one was slinging random plant oil as cannabis and the perfume terps were too much, I guess one could pick any one of these compounds or a mixture and make a diluent. It would be natural; If the molecule was a terpenoid or terpene all the better.

Do I think they’re using mineral oil? Probably not...are they using an affordable, commercially available terpenoid alkane or mix that may originally be found in plants and animals? I’d bet my money in this area.

Does anyone have combustion analysis?

Mr D · Mar 15, 2019

Our industry has a full time rep in China that works on our behalf.

Future4200 · Mar 15, 2019

TT sources its terpenes domestically, from ISO certified mfgs.

I have ordered several bottles of the Viscosity, anonymously, and will be sending them to at least 2 of the labs OP mentioned.

Sensei Gray Wolf, I'm just glad we didn't have to rekindle our relationship under shitty circumstances involving he who shall not be named here. I have your back 100%, always, and have several cards in my deck that I could play at any time if need be

Mr D · Mar 15, 2019

Future4200 said:
TT sources its terpenes domestically, from ISO certified mfgs.

I have ordered several bottles of the Viscosity, anonymously, and will be sending them to at least 2 of the labs OP mentioned.

Sensei Gray Wolf, I'm just glad we didn't have to rekindle our relationship under shitty circumstances involving he who shall not be named here. I have your back 100%, always, and have several cards in my deck that I could play at any time if need be

Thank you for the clarification.

soil margin · Mar 15, 2019

Mr D said:
Is it safe to conclude that True Terpenes is just repackaging Chinese made Terpenes?

As someone who imports from China I don't put any stock in ISO certification of Chinese manufacturers.

I'm not gonna tell you it's "safe to conclude that" as I don't have empirical evidence one way or another, but personally I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to find out that companies such as TT are repackaging products for which they don't have any assurance of purity/quality/sourcing/etc. It's easy money and not everyone out there values their integrity over their bank account.

CannaRed · Mar 15, 2019

MJPassion said:
As a side note...
My bro picked up these YOCANs that fit on top of a vape mod.
These cans require zero thinning to use your favorite oils/rosins.
Just toss a glob of oil in and vape as normal. Hell, with these cans there's no need to dewax but dewaxed products taste better.

I've had the yocans for almost 2 years. I have a ceramic donut coils, and double quartz coils.
Has a small silicone container built in to the bottom.
They are excellent!
Yocan has several different models, slim sizes regular and a big quad quartz model.
Perfect for on the go and absolutely no thinner needed. Just concentrate.

p0opstlnksal0t · Mar 15, 2019

Thank you drjackhughes

Although it's not mass spec

Some more data points for the interested parties

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True Terpenes VISCOSITY extract liquifier LAB TESTS: Mineral oil but no terps!!

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