America the beautiful

....I think the main problem is jingoistic nationalism.......

...Once we all realise that we do not belong to some corrupt country or other.....but we belong to the human race and are citizens of this planet without any aliegences to particular countries or territories.....then the world will be a better place...
...Countries....like religions create divisions within human societies...


...Why do we need passports?
...Why are we stopped/searched and scrutinized at borders?
...Why can't any human travel freely on his or her own planet?

I am a world citizen that has travelled freely to 50 countries now and in all of them I have met good people.....I would never seek to demonize one nation for that would be stereotypical......

The American government is not of the people so the people cannot really be made to take the blame for the current atrocious foreign policies that are being propergated around the planet.....all they can do now is try to remove this stain on their global reputation by attempting to bounce from office those that continue to promote these wars of attrition that kill thousands of innocent people.....and for what?....for Oil?


*whoever you vote for the government gets in.

Establishment Capitalism

Establishment Capitalism

Right on Gypsy. Exactly my point. How can a system like slavery be just and fair. At one time this was seen as acceptable but the world does change slowly.

Women had few rights until recently and still don't in many places. Blacks couldn't marry whites in America no so long ago. Now Gays wish to marry and the age old thinking says, "that's a threat to real marriage". But of course it doesn't threaten my marriage. Issues like this are how Bush plans to win. Using fear and hatred as usual.

We will defeat Bush but the problem won't be solved because Bush has really been a disaster for relations between us and what few friends we had left. Don't expect Kerry to stop America from fighting for its money and oil. Capitalism is a competition between countries and no one ever said it was fair.

So I applaud those on all sides of this coming fight that will eventually make the evil so clear from the good once and for all.

I believe there will be a last war and that it is coming soon. The good thing is that it really will be the final one. As Bush says, "Bring it on!" That might appeal to a few but Peace is my answer. The fight is the rich and powerful against the poor and oppressed not one country against another actually.






We are all at war with ourselves until we realize we are one. We are labor. We are the majority, the workers who live on wages payed out by cheap employers so short sighted that money is all they see.

Materialism is the problem as money is the root of all evil and some day the truth will be seen when we get our heads out of the clouds or our asses whichever the case may be.

I wish to have peace but that's not normal for this planet now is it? BOG

LOVE YOUR COUNTRY NOT YOUR GOV!!!!!!

One World... One Love.

One World... One Love.

Just keep loving and never resort to violence. BOG

Outlaw ,

Why do you get your feathers ruffled when you hear a bunch of people " disrespecting " american .

When you go to war and kill 10,000 + woman , children and civilians FOR NO GOOD REASON what the fuck do you think is gonna happen ??

You would think if you got the balls to slaughter 100`s of children you would have the balls to report it .

But nope , those fucking pussies are to busy selling spam to actually show what the cost of war really is .

And you were talking about disrespect ????????

How about the victory parade . Where bush is going to say how safer americans are because of the war with some twisted reference to 9-11 , right before the next election .

Which of course is all lies .

And the media will play right along , not uttering one objective peep about children with no legs , they got spam to sell .



And you were talking about disrespect ????????

Read the entire thread next time, before you post bro
Your questions have already been covered.

Your missing my point ,

You are " disgusted " at all the stereotypical anti-american propaganda .

Your pissed off at the wrong people .

What`s worse , the butchering of children or stereotyping ???

If your skin is thick enough to watch innocent people getting killed then surly it is thick enough stand a little anti-americanism .

So I ask you again , What the fuck did you think was gonna happen ?

Read the entire thread next time eh ?

Skip said:

I too am an American.

Click to expand...

outlaw said:

have you visited America skip?

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The arrogance of ignorance .

The Issue is Who Starts Wars and why

The Issue is Who Starts Wars and why

We the people are the victims of war. We are the soldiers and their families. There can be no more impeachable offense than lying to cause a war.

Can we all understand the hate for America? Not all of us no. Americans love their country as I do. Most can't sound anti-american as it feels disloyal to our own people.

Everyone should understand that people are just people wherever you go. People don't want wars. Gov'ts do.

This is the jungle you see and any other view is head in the clouds crap. Power rules and competes for power and those who attain power are corrupted by that power as a rule.

We all fall into delusional rationalizations don't we? None of us are perfect are we?

So we must ask ourselves if we want a world governing body or not. America seems unwilling to sacrifice any soverienty so it goes on its own but this is not the way.

In the future we need a world gov't that is truly for the people. Looks like another war will come first however. BOG

America is a super power, I honestly do not see how we could get beat. Only country that is a threat is china because of their mass population. They have brand new space program, our's is out of date and we need to update it. First person to get a station on the moon will be so vaulable even though what people say. You could put nukes on their and fire all day and not get hit. What are they going to do nuke the moon?

Kholer Roller said:

Outlaw ,

Why do you get your feathers ruffled when you hear a bunch of people " disrespecting " american .

Click to expand...

Because America, and George W. Bush's policys are two different things. If you had took the time to read the thread, you would have already found the answer to this question.

Kholer Roller said:

Outlaw ,

When you go to war and kill 10,000 + woman , children and civilians FOR NO GOOD REASON what the fuck do you think is gonna happen ??

Click to expand...

We went to war with Iraq to bring democracy to Iraq for no good reason Kholer? I guess you consider these stories of Saddam Husseins regime acceptable?

By Jack Kelley, USA TODAY

BAGHDAD — Pictures of dead Iraqis, with their necks slashed, their eyes gouged out and their genitals blackened, fill a bookshelf. Jail cells, with dried blood on the floor and rusted shackles bolted to the walls, line the corridors. And the screams of what could be imprisoned men in an underground detention center echo through air shafts and sewer pipes.
A civilian looks through secret police documents found in a building where Saddam's Baath Party had jail cells and interrogation chambers.
"This is the place where Saddam made people disappear," said an Iraqi soldier named Iyad Hussein, 37, describing Iraq's Military Intelligence Directorate in the northwestern suburb of Kadimiya. "It is a chamber of death."

The secrets of Saddam Hussein's reign of terror are beginning to emerge. Iraqi civilians who had longed feared speaking out about the alleged atrocities for fear of government retribution are revealing in detail what the Iraqi dictator and his regime inflicted on some of the country's 26 million people.

They paint a picture of arrests, killings and torture that have led human rights groups to condemn the Iraqi leader in the strongest terms. The groups have charged that tens of thousands of Iraqis, from Kurds in the north to Shiites in the south, were tortured and killed after Saddam seized power in 1979.

Most were arrested on charges ranging from criticizing the Iraqi leader to cooperating with the United States.

Only a few walked out of the jails alive.

Some Iraqis are already coming forward with tales of atrocities. Many allegedly were carried out here at the Military Intelligence Directorate.

"I was beaten, refrigerated naked and put underground for one year because I was a Shiite and Saddam is a Sunni," said Ali Kaddam Kardom, 37. He said he was arrested in the central city of Karbala on March 10, 2000. He returned to the facility in Baghdad this weekend, he said, to help rescue any Iraqis who still might be imprisoned there.

The Bush administration has said it would seek out evidence of the Saddam regime's covert programs — from its efforts to enrich top officials as its citizens starved, to the development of banned weapons. Last week, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said rewards would be offered to individuals who provide information on biological, chemical and nuclear weapons programs.

Rumsfeld also said that though Saddam appeared to be gone, "we still must capture, account for or otherwise deal" with him and senior Iraqi leaders.

Initially, U.S. forces will have to rely on testimony from survivors of Saddam's brutality because some of the key documentary evidence has disappeared, U.S. officials said. When U.S. forces entered the headquarters of the once-feared Iraqi Intelligence Service, across town from the Military Intelligence Directorate, they found the place had been cleaned out even before the Baghdad looters arrived, a U.S. intelligence official said Sunday. Looters have destroyed evidence at other government agencies.


Or how about the fact Saddam refused to let weapons inspectors in Kholer?



House Passes Resolution on Iraq's Weapons Program
Hyde hails Hill action on H.J. Res. 75

The House of Representatives passed on December 20 a resolution that warns of the dangers posed by Iraq's refusal to allow United Nations inspectors to verify Iraq's dismantling of weapons of mass destruction, and the termination of programs to develop such weapons.

The House passed House Joint Resolution 75 (H.J. Res. 75) by 392-12, with 7 voting present, and 23 not voting. The House debated the resolution the previous day.

Iraqi ruler Saddam Hussein's noncompliance with the terms of the cease-fire accord that ended the Gulf War regarding U.N. inspection of his regime's chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons programs represent a threat to the United States, according to the resolution's authors.

The resolution says Iraq sponsors terrorism and has trained members of several terrorist organizations.

Representative Henry Hyde (Republican of Illinois), chairman of the House International Relations Committee, said in a December 19 news release that H.J. Res. 75 was prompted by "the growing threat to international peace and security posed by Saddam Hussein's refusal to comply with the terms of the cease-fire agreement ending the Persian Gulf War."

Those terms were incorporated by the United Nations Security Council into Resolution 687 of 1991, and into subsequent resolutions addressing the situation in Iraq, Hyde said.

"Since 1998, Saddam's ability to reconstitute his nuclear weapons program, his biological weapons program, his chemical weapons program, and his long range missile program has not been constrained by international inspectors. There is every reason to believe that Saddam has taken advantage of the absence of inspectors to revive these weapons programs," Hyde said.

Following is the text of the December 19 news release from the Office of Rep. Henry Hyde on H.J. Res. 75:

News Release House International Relations Committee Congressman Henry J. Hyde December 19, 2001

For IMMEDIATE Release House Acts on Resolution Critical of Saddam Hussein

Failure to permit UN weapons inspections in Iraq poses "mounting threat" to U.S., allies

Washington -- Saddam Hussein's unwillingness to permit inspections of Iraq's military facilities by U.N. weapons inspectors - required under longstanding agreements with the international community - poses a "mounting threat" to the U.S. and its allies, according to a House resolution expected to pass today.

U.S. Rep. Henry J. Hyde (R-IL), chairman of the House International Relations Committee, said the House resolution was prompted by the growing threat to international peace and security posed by Saddam Hussein's refusal to comply with the terms of the cease-fire agreement ending the Persian Gulf War. Those terms were incorporated by the U.N. Security Council into Resolution 687 of 1991, and into subsequent resolutions addressing the situation in Iraq.

The House resolution (H. J. Res. 75), amended in Committee by Hyde and U.S. Rep. Tom Lantos (D-CA), the committee's senior Democrat, was authored by U.S. Rep. Lindsey Graham (R-SC). The resolution also calls for the U.N. to reject any inspection protocol that does not give its teams "immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to any and all areas, facilities, equipment, records and means of transportation." The House resolution also accuses the Hussein government of being in "material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations."

"From 1991 until 1998, Saddam Hussein went through the motions of complying with these inspection requirements, while doing everything he could to prevent the weapons inspectors from discovering the truth about the history of his weapons programs," Hyde said, adding, "Since 1998, Saddam has stopped complying altogether. "

The Security Council resolutions require Hussein to give U.N. weapons inspectors unfettered access to sites in Iraq where weapons of mass destruction might be under development, as well as to other relevant locations and information in Iraq.

"Since 1998, Saddam's ability to reconstitute his nuclear weapons program, his biological weapons program, his chemical weapons program, and his long range missile program has not been constrained by international inspectors. There is every reason to believe that Saddam has taken advantage of the absence of inspectors to revive these weapons programs," Hyde said. "To remain silent in the face of these facts is a dangerous abdication of our responsibility to warn of this menace."

"If the adoption of this House resolution calls attention to this increasingly dangerous situation, it will have served its purpose," Hyde said.

Kholer Roller said:

You would think if you got the balls to slaughter 100`s of children you would have the balls to report it .

Click to expand...

Where did the United States line up 100's of children to slaughter? Lets see your sources for this fact Kholer

Kholer Roller said:

Which of course is all lies

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Ofcourse

Lets have a civil discussion Kholer, your trolling and name calling are not acceptable here. Act like a mature adult, and there will be no problems.


Outlaw

outlaw, actually you went to war with iraq, because they were such a great threat to america, their allies, neighbouring countries, and the rest of the world, with their 'Weapons of Mass Destruction'.

at least that was the excuse used before the war.

regime change in another country, simly because you dont like the leader is an illegal war.

Howdy Ken,
I cant say I necassarily disagree with you man.

Skip said:

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You must agree to these conditions to become a member.


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8. Banning: People who violate these forum guidelines repeatedly are subject to banning. Once someone has been banned from the site, we don't not allow complaints about it. Once banned, we are done with that individual, and no amount of complaining from other members will help. We don't need to justify our bans. This only causes more work for the moderators. Which is usually the reason for the person being banned in the first place. So those who complain about a banishment, are subject to being banned themselves.

9. Status: As long as you respect our rules you will be a welcome member of this website. Those who have chosen to join our community and support what we stand for will be accorded the rights of full membership. Members who abuse their status may see it changed back to Guest as a warning that their behavior is unnacceptable. Further abuse will lead to banning.

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Remember these Kholar? Good, I thought so

Now that your trash has been cleaned up, if you would like to respond to my response to your original questions......we can continue on.......

outlaw

Re: uhm

Re: uhm

Bazeado said:

So the war was about regime change and WMD, can you point me to the WMD or the functioning democracy in Iraq???. All is there is chaos... no democracy or WMD!!!.

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Hi bazeado,
Yes the war was about regime change and WMD, did you not watch the news? lol.

Now weather there were any WMD to be found is another story, I personally thought there would be small quantitys found, but nothing that constituted an invasion and illegal pre-emptive war. The fact nothing at all has been found, is surprising even to me...and I was against going into Iraq in the first place. Chemical weapons are held by easily over 50 other nations; and the fact nothing at all has been found is suspicious to me actually.
Now that we know there have been none found, its easy to say I told you so. But the simple fact of the matter is Iraq refused to let UN weapons inspectors in to varify they had disarmed for several years, violating several international laws etc.

They just adopted a constitution with a system of checks and balances, which is a step in the right direction. No one said democracy was going to happen immediately, infact we warned before hand that it would take sometime to get a legitimate government up and running. Be patient folks, Rome wasnt built in a single day.

Thanks for the response Bazeado, lets keep this thread on topic.

Outlaw

Outlaw- You guy's just kill me...ROFLMAO you just can't get over the fact that algore lost! since you are so full of facts, tell me how many times were the votes counted? Now tell me how many different liberal newspapers went to Florida to count the votes? and finally tell me how many found the votes that said algore won, if the votes were there he would be President. nuff said.....


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