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An Emergency Call-to-Arms

Skip

Active member
Veteran
This just came in my email.

An Emergency Call-to-Arms:
A Five-Step Battle Plan for YOUR Future

This is a call to arms to you -- as an American and a custodian of your nation's future. Please act as if your life depends on it -- it well might.

We have been led down a dark, perilous road.

The journey has touched us all, from mothers and fathers burying children in a war over nonexistent WMD, to firefighters and policemen promised vital funds only to be cheated and asked to work for free. Millions of Americans have been cut loose as corporations exploit foreign workers on the cheap and CEOs gorge themselves on riches unprecedented in history. While Americans take second and even third jobs just feed their families, the Bush Administration has poured America's wealth into the greedy hands of defense contractors and tax-dodging megacorporations, notorious companies like (#1 Bush donator Kenneth Lay's) Enron or Cheney's wartime ripoff-artists at Halliburton.

Our environment, safety, economy, national security, labor protection and Constitutionally-guaranteed rights have all been gutted and left to die in a worker-hostile economy.

NOW WE FIGHT BACK.

Here's what we're facing:

This November, the Bush election machine has more than three times the spending power of its opponenets(1)

And they are fighting dirty, just as they did in 2000, when they purged Florida voter rolls(2), rioted to stop recounts(3), barred citizens from voting (ibid) and even threatened the Vice President and his family on their front lawn (4).

This year, through gerrymandering, data theft from Congressional computers, impeachments and recess judicial appointments, they are trying to consolidate their unprecedented power. And they have a special election-season surprise in store for us as well -- as the AFL-CIO argued before the Supreme Court last December(5), the Bushites have MADE IT A CRIME FOR THIRD PARTIES TO CRITICIZE THE PRESIDENT OR SAY THINGS TO INFLUENCE THE ELECTION during the election's most critical phase:

"This blackout will become national in scope on July 31, 30 days before the August 30-September 2 Republican National Convention . . and it will then continue without interruption throughout the remaining 60 days until the November 2 election. Thus, from July 31, 2004 until the election, it will be a crime for a union, corporation, or incorporated non-profit organization to pay to broadcast any 'reference' to the President by 'name,' 'photograph,' 'drawing' or other 'unambiguous' means anywhere in the United States." (6)

They are ruthless, and will not concede victory without a vicious fight. Expect the outlawing of gay marriage to "divide and conquer", marginalize opponents and consolidate support from the religious right, a base estimated to be 30 million strong (7). Expect the Supreme Court to halt recounts again. Expect a "surprise" discovery of WMD even after Blix, David Kay and Iraq's scientists saying they were all destroyed. (8) Expect the "suprise" capture or "destruction" of Bin Laden conveniently close to the election (9). Expect lots of scary terrorism warnings and perhaps even an attack.(10) General Tommy Franks has even suggested a second 9-11-scale attack will lead to martial law in America (11).

None of this should deter you; remember it was the same group (Rumsfeld, Cheney, Baker, Bush Sr., Perle, etc.) that armed and funded Hussein and Bin Laden in the first place. The blood of our dead is therefore on their hands.

We must not underestimate the ruthlessness of those willing to start an international war based on known and transparent lies -- virtually against the will of the entire planet. Make no mistake; they are willing to throw away American lives in their quest for global dominion. And if you rise up and oppose them, you may be bullied, harassed and threatened, perhaps even by the FBI.(12) YOU MUST NOT LET THIS DETER YOU. WE MUST NOT BE BULLIED INTO LETTING THEM SEIZE POWER AGAIN!

And here we come to the deep, dark heart of the matter:

This year 28% of the vote (and counting) will be tallied on electronic voting machines or scanners, which have been repeatedly hacked and can be used to fix an election -- all without a trace. Below you'll find a link to the diagrammed, step-by-step report of how e-vote activist Bev Harris hacked one(13). If you think this is exaggeration, please follow the links listed below, where everything has been well-documented and by the NY Times, the Washington Post, CNN, ABC, CBS, the BBC, etc. (14)

Once paperless, effortlessly hackable (10) voting machines have been installed, the situation will be PERMANENT -- we will never know or be able to prove if an election has been stolen. And if it HAS -- those who have stolen it CAN NEVER BE VOTED OUT. And without the fear of voter reprisal, whoever takes advantage of such a situation could do literally anything they wanted and NEVER LOSE POWER. It will mean the end of Democracy. And if you work for an activist group, it will certainly mean the end of your organization.

We have less than six months to prepare to fight the biggest power grab in human history.

Do your part.

Help save America.

There will not be a second chance.

A 5-STEP BATTLE PLAN:

I. LOBBYING (20 minutes approximately)

Tell your representatives to support Bills H.R.2239, 1986, and ESPECIALLY 2045 (14)

Online e-petitions:
http://www.mediafordemocracy.us/campaign/evote
http://www.truemajority.org/actionregister/
http://action.eff.org/action/index.asp?step=2&item=2821
http://www.verifiedvoting.org
http://www.workingforchange.com/activism/petition.cfm?itemid=14993
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/348035553?ts=1079111375&sign[partner_userID]=304336170&sign[memberID]=304336170&sign[partnerID]=1
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/cleanvote.html

Congress
http://www.senate.gov/
Toll free: 1-800-839-5276
http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/

State elections boards
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/htdocs/dcforum/DCForumID29/47.html

State Attorneys General
http://www.naag.org/ag/full_ag_table.php

State Election Officials
http://www.nased.org/

Members, Natl. Assoc. of County Recorders, Election Officials and Clerks
http://www.nacrc.org/leadership/st_coord.htm

Penelope Bonsall, national director of the Office of Election Administration
Office of Election Administration
Federal Election Commission
999 E Street, NW
Washington, DC 20463
vss@fec.gov
(202) 694-1095 (phone)
(202) 219-8500 (fax)

II. MEDIA BLITZ (one to three hours approximately)
Write a ltter and email or fax it to Radio & tv stations, newspapers & magazines in your area:
http://dmoz.org/Arts/Television/News/
http://newslink.org
http://www.cantufind.com/american_newspapers.htm
http://dmoz.org/Arts/Radio/Formats/Talk_Radio/Networks/
http://dmoz.org/Arts/Radio/Formats/Talk_Radio/Stations/
http://dmoz.org/Arts/Television/Networks/Cable/
http://dmoz.org/Arts/Television/Networks/
http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Broadcasting/Information/

National Media Contacts:
CBS Evening News
212-975-3691
evening@cbsnews.com

NBC Nightly News
212-664-4971
nightly@nbc.com

Peter Jennings : ABC World News Tonight
Tel : (212) 456-4025, Fax : (212) 456-2381
PeterJennings@abcnews.com
 

Skip

Active member
Veteran
Washington Post :
abramowitz@washpost.com, colemanm@washpost.com ,
letters@washpost.com , hadarm@washpost.com ,
kingc@washpost.com , milbankd@washpost.com ,

New York Times:
nytnews@nytimes.com, oped@nytimes.com,
president@nytimes.com, publisher@nytimes.com,
society@nytimes.com, washington@nytimes.com,
web-editor@nytimes.com, letters@nytimes.com
USA Today: editor@usatoday.com
Houston Chronicle: viewpoints@chron.com
San Francisco Chronicle: letters@sfchronicle.com
Los Angeles Times: letters@latimes.com
Chicago Tribune: ctc-TribLetter@Tribune.com
Washington Post: letters@washpost.com
Newsday: letters@newsday.com
New York Daily News: voicers@edit.nydailynews.com

CNN HeadLine News executives :
cameron.baird@turner.com, dave.willis@turner.com,
bill.schneider@turner.com ,
james.broyles@turner.com, jason.evans@turner.com,
lou.dobbs@turner.com , moneyline@cnnfn.com ,
kathy.slobogin@turner.com , paul.varian@turner.com ,
judy.fortin@turner.com, bill.galvin@turner.com,
susan.jalali@turner.com, kurt.kasting@turner.com,
tim.mallon@turner.com, wade.mckinney@turner.com,
jerry.mihoch@turner.com, stephanie.minter@turner.com,
dennis.newman@turner.com, alan.schrack@turner.com,
rolando.santos@turner.com, steve.shusman@turner.com,
jennifer.c.thomas@turner.com,

USA Today :
editor@usatoday.com , fanklam@usatoday.com ,
jbacon@usatoday.com , lbranson@usatoday.com ,
dcolton@usatoday.com,

Los Angeles Times :
dean.baquet@latimes.com , op-ed@latimes.com ,
john.carroll@latimes.com , janet.clayton@latimes.com ,
letters@latimes.com , latmag@latimes.com ,
marjorie.miller@latimes.com, john.puerner@latimes.com
james.rainey@latimes.com, bill.stall@latimes.com ,

REUTERS :
michel.gelbart@reuters.com , eddie.evans@reuters.com ,
editor.reuters@reuters.com, daniel.grebler@reuters.com ,
stephen.jukes@reuters.com , reshma.kapadia@reuters.com ,
andrew.mitchell@reuters.com , dick.satran@reuters.com ,
david.schlesinger@reuters.com, eddie.evans@reuters.com ,
washington.daybook.newsroom@reuters.com,
miami.newsroom@reuters.com, michel.gelbart@reuters.com,
boston.newsroom@reuters.com, toronto.newsroom@reuters.com ,
mexicocity.newsroom@reuters.com ,

Associated Press:
info@ap.org, msilverman@ap.org,
gjohnson@ap.org , hjung@ap.org
tkorte@ap.org , sthomsen@ap.org
etompson@ap.org , ntrott@ap.org
rtanner@ap.org, mtighe@ap.org,
kathleen.carroll@ap.org, dcrary@ap.org,
adinnocenzio@ap.org, jaffleck@ap.org,
mfeldman@ap.org, paula.froke@ap.org,
tfuentez@ap.org, kgazlay@ap.org,
chanley@ap.org, bharpaz@ap.org,
lheinzerling@ap.org, rherschaft@ap.org,
hitalie@ap.org, sjacobsen@ap.org,
ajesdanun@ap.org, tkent@ap.org



III. WITNESS E-VOTE EVALUATIONS (one afternoon)
Ask your elections board (about any e-voting purchase evaluations meetings to be held in your district. As a member of the voting public, it is your legal right to attend as a witness, although, out of convenience, they may try to avoid giving you the information. Insist on your rights.

If you do attend as a witness, you may well be a victim of intimidation tactics. Insist on voter-verified paper ballots. Bev Harris has written comprehensive answers to arguments you will hear. DO NOT BACK DOWN OR BE INTIMIDATED BY CIVIL SERVANTS -- they are your EMPLOYEES, paid by YOUR TAXES:

From Bev Harris, http://www.BlackBoxVoting.Org

Assertion: "Upgrading the printer already in the (Diebold) machine costs money"
Fact: Diebold has stated in writing that their pre-installed internal printers are sufficient to generate a voter-verified paper trail.

Assertion: "The paper is very expensive"
Fact: No, thermal paper is the cheapest made. And with an estimated maximmum of 300 people voting at each touch screen. A LARGE precinct may have seven touch screens, but many have just two or three. It might cost $15 per precinct to print those ballots.

Assertion: "The paper won't last"
Fact: If the report to be by the machine will last the required amount of time, the ballots will too, if printed on the same paper. The printer is there to report totals at the polling place.

Assertion: "the machines will jam"
Fact: The printer is similar to models used in supermarkets and WalMart. Remember: the total number of transactions, will be about 300. Do supermarket and WalMart printers jam every 15 sales? No; They process thousands of printouts without jamming.

Assertion: "the ink will run out"
Fact: There is no ink in a thermal printer

Question: "If a paper ballot record doesn't match a machine record, which is the legal vote?"
Fact: The voter-verified paper must trump the machine unless a mechanical defect or fraud is shown, because it is a physical record seen and verified by thousands of individual voters, whereas the machine is bits and bytes that can be changed by a single technician!

Assertion: "Paper ballot systems have been tampered with"
Fact: Yes, and machines have been frequently wrong as well. Do not allow sidetracking of the discussion or assertions that you are "against electronic voting" -- no, we want them to put paper in a printer and use it for auditing.

Assertion: "Officials won't know what to do with paper ballots and new laws must be written."
Fact: Laws and procedures set up for optical scans are applicable.

Assertion: "A paper trail will only lead to demands for more complicated and stringent auditing"
Fact: Yes, it will. We're asking for that anyway, with optical scanning. It is still be cheap and efficient compared to many of the changes currently being implemented to accomodate the sales of more touchscreen machines.

Question: "Why use machines at all if you're demanding paper ballots?"
Fact: Voting machines are helpful for the visually impaired

Assertion: "Paper ballots prevent the visually impaired from voting"
Facts: Wheelchair-assisted voters can use a touch screen with the same efficiency whether or not there is a paper printout, and the visually-impaired are can be provided with headphones for these machines. Nor does a paper printout hinder their ability to vote.

Alternatives to the Diebold, Sequoia and ES&S machines (operated by heavily partisan CEOs, designed to operate WITHOUT a paper trail, and whose code and components are not allowed to be examined) exist.

Avante Systems has a machine that shows a printout through a glass screen. After the voter confirms it is correct, the paper ballot is droped into a storage box so it can be checked against the machine totals and the AccuPoll system has a scanner that can pass over the printed ballot to verify votes.

Sequioa machines can be attached to normal printers. If your group has some at its disposal, by all means, bring them.

Alternative, secure e-voting machines you can suggest to your elections officials:
http://www.accupoll.com/
http://www.aitechnology.com/avantetech/home.html

IV. VOLUNTEER ELECTIONS MONITORING (three days approximately, including preliminary training)
Vootewatch is organizing election monitor volunteers here:
http://www.votewatch.us/forum/register.php?

Bev Harris has outlined a point-by-point strategy on specifically what to look for when monitoring electronic voting machines. It is also recommended that you either download her free e-book "Black Box Voting", or better yet, purchase it here:
http://www.blackboxvoting.org

From Bev Harris, http://www.BlackBoxVoting.Org
 

Skip

Active member
Veteran
CITIZEN WATCHDOGS: What to look for and report -- Let's get good at this before November!

Optical-scan systems and absentee ballots: We have information that all systems recognize carbon-containing marks (soft lead pencil). Some DO NOT recognize all inks. You may want to bring a soft lead pencil to the polling place with you to mark your optical-scan ballots.

All Diebold counties (AccuVote and AccuTouch are Diebold brands) -- Demand that the poll workers print a report and post a copy at the polling place at the end of the day, whether they are required to or not. All Diebold machines, both touch-screen and optical-scan, contain internal printers and have the ability to print a polling place results report. This takes 60 seconds and costs nothing, and is an important check and balance to compare with the county results from the GEMS system, which we believe to contain security flaws. Votes should not change from the polling place to the county.

Report any instance of mismatched polling place/county tabulations here. Do NOT accept the excuse that they won't match because early votes, absentee, provisional, or challenge votes were added into the polling place totals. That is called "co-mingling" the data and is not an acceptable record-keeping practice. Additional categories of votes must be accounted for as separate line items.

Sequoia touch-screens do not have an internal printer. A printer can easily be hooked up with a serial port. If you see printers, demand a polling place report.

Watch for any "wandering vote tallies" on election night, especially if any votes go DOWN. (Yes, this has been known to happen).

Late poll openings: Report these immediately and we'll try to get cameras there. This is a form of vote suppression, often occurring in minority areas.

Late vote results: Report late incoming tallies. These can be indicative of the county trying to resolve voting machine anomalies before filing reports.

Observe how many cords come in and out of the voting machines. Report any evidence of networking the machines together. Report any time you see more than a simple power cord plugged in while the election is in progress.

Wardrive election sites. See if you can pick up wireless signals either during or after the election. Wireless communication is not permitted. Also, report any use of cell phones for vote transfers, which is also not permitted.

Election workers: Report the procedures used for training if they seem insecure. For example, we have already had reports that in Georgia, some poll workers were told to take voting machines home after training; Georgia flag artwork was uploaded right before the election; and other unwise and insecure procedures were followed.

Go visit the polling place at the end of the day and see how secure it is. We had reports recently of machines left in the polling place unattended.

Felony watch: In some states, IT IS A FELONY for technicians who are not sworn elections officials to touch the vote database in any way, shape or form after votes have been cast. In fact, if you look at Chapter 13 of Black Box Voting, the San Luis Obispo incident was probably illegal (Diebold tech Sophia Lee was tied to a live vote database that appeared on the Internet five hours before the polls closed).

Watch for statistical anomalies. Look at everything. Time is of the essence, as these analyses take some time and there are only a few days before the election is certified.

V. LEGAL CHALLENGES (indeterminate)

Author Lynn Landes has questioned the constitutionality of voting machines.
http://www.ecotalk.org/VotingMachinesUnconstitutional.htm

If your organization has the wherewithal to raise a legal challenge on these (or other grounds) here are some resources below:

Election campaign and civil rights lawyers listed for every city:
http://lawyers.findlaw.com/lawyer/practice/Election Campaign & Political Law
http://lawyers.findlaw.com/lawyer/practice/Civil Rights

Institute for Justice:
http://www.ij.org/index.shtml

Center for Indiviual Rights:
http://www.cir-usa.org/intakehtml

Class actions:
http://www.bigclassaction.com/civil_rights.html

Southeastern Legal Foundation:
http://southeasternlegal.org/

Electronic Frontier Foundation attorneys:
gwen@eff.org
jason@eff.org
owlswan@eff.org
wendy@eff.org
tien@eff.org
fred@eff.org

Other challenges:
http://www.palmbeachpostcom/localne.../tuesday/local_news_04d49255058760a400d8.html
http://www.electionguardians.org/actions.htm
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/dieboldlawsuit.pdf

Pax Christi is also organizing an international group of elections monitors. More information here:
http://www.paxchristiusa.org/news_events_more.asp?id=887

REFERENCES

1 (GOP:$115,667,827 ; Dems:$44,175,502).
http://www.opensecrets.org/parties/index.asp

2. Greg Palast, Harper's Magazine "The Great Florida Ex-Con Game"
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=122&row=2

3 a."Unprecedented" -- internet preview of the film
http://wwwunprecedented.org/UnprecedentedPreview.htm

3 b. Lynn Landes: "Mission Impossible - Federal Observers & Voting Machines"
http://www.ecotalk.org/FederalObservers.htm

4. Barabara Walters interview"The Note":
http://wwwfreerepublic.com/focus/f-news/791744/posts

5.McConnell vs the Federal Election Commission
http://www.oyez.org/oyez/resource/case/1637/

6. http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0404/hentoff.php

7. "Bush Assures Evangelicals of Commitment to Marriage Amendment"
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/12/politics/12EVAN.html?pagewanted=print&position

8a. Online Journal: "Wag the Osama"
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/031004Burns/031004burns.html

8b.NewsNet5: "Ridge Sidesteps Question On Bin Laden's Capture"
http://www.newsnet5.com/news/2917298/detail.html

9. U.S. Unloading WMD in Iraq
http://www.tehrantimes.com/Description.asp?Da=3/13/2004&Cat=4&Num=011

10. Aljazeera.net: "Purported Al Qaida Statement"
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/2CDD53D6-7AF7-40C7-AF88-32A16072F81B.htm

11. NewsMax: "Tommy Franks: 'Martial Law Will Replace Constitution After Next Terror Attack'"
http://infowars.com/print/ps/franks_martial.htm

12. The New McCarthyism, the Progressive:
http://www.progressive.org/0901/roth0102.html

13. Scoop: "Inside a US Election Vote Counting Program"
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm

14a. NY Times: "Hack the Vote"
http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/120303A.shtml

b. CBS: "Electronic Voting Causing Concern"
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/03/eveningnews/main591185.shtml

c. UK Independent: "All the President's Votes?"
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1013-01.htm

d. Salon: "Will the Election be Hacked?"
http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2004/02/09/voting_machines/index_np.html

e. BBC: "Concerns over US Computer Voting"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3489877.stm

f. ABC News: "Avoiding Another Florida Fiasco"
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/SciTech/Voting_machines_040305-1.html

g. "Comparison of Senate Bills 1980, 1986, and 2045"
http://www.verifiedvoting.org/senate_bill_comparison.asp

You are encouraged to distribute this document freely and widely.

Contact: Eric A. Smith, Hot Damn! Design, Tokyo, Japan œ 81-03-3959-5371
# # #
 
G

Guest

Spot on Skip, that's a very good analysis of exactly what we can expect from the bushies in the future. The good news is that even lots of Republicans who formerly supported bush have begun to wise up to his spin machine. The last election was 'iffy' - very close. Unless something very unexpected happens before November, bush will have to start waving his magic wand and pray for a miracle to rescue his ass at the last moment. Thanks to his recking the economy and his lies leading us to war, the Democrats will have a much easier time. I can feel the solidarity in the air. :)
 

Ono Nadagin

Active member
Sorry I am voting for Bush :D.... but by all means count those votes... and this time include the overseas military vote, if done last time Florida would have been a non issue.

And I must say I find it disturbing that IC has not officially become a ANTI Bush election web site.....

I understand promoting a pro MJ candidate but your obviously promoting an ANTI legalization/decriminalization candidate as none on the upcoming Dem ticket support either legalization/decriminalization.
 
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BushyOldGrower

Bubblegum Specialist
Veteran
When you run against the gangsters...

When you run against the gangsters...

They don't just cheat they kill you if they can get away with it.

Face it...the Republicans have given up on playing fair at all and they know they can't win fairly just like last time.

They have the Supreme Court loaded with gangsters too so whoever has the most money, and cheats the most, will buy the election. Sad to say that good has to be very good to beat the evil republicans. BOG

Florida? lol....... :p

57nazibushpic.jpg
 

Ono Nadagin

Active member
They don't just cheat they kill you if they can get away with it.
~~ post proof if its fact...

Face it...the Republicans have given up on playing fair at all and they know they can't win fairly just like last time.
~~ If the overseas US military voted was counted Florida would have been a non issue... And even as an issue Fla. was won fairly according to the law...

They have the Supreme Court loaded with gangsters
~~~ uHMMM ... YEAH OK... WHAT EVER YOU SAY :rolleyes:
 
G

Guest

how can you make it fucking illegal to critisze the president during election time. I hope I get in thrown in jail for a night when I BREAK THAT LAW. Fuck Bush, that twerp is just a symbol of evil, a rallying point for the most fucked minds of the country.
 

Ono Nadagin

Active member
Nate, where did bush make it illeagal to critisize the Prez during an election....

If your speaking of Moveon.orgs illeagal activities you should be mad at the dems whom thought up and passed the legislation your now complaining about :)
 
G

Guest

it will be a crime for a union, corporation, or incorporated non-profit organization to pay to broadcast any 'reference' to the President by 'name,' 'photograph,' 'drawing' or other 'unambiguous' means anywhere in the United States.

I guess wake and bake got the better of me because I thought it applied to all citizens. That's still total bullshit though.
 

Skip

Active member
Veteran
Uh, Ono Nadagin,

I don't see ANYWHERE where anyone mentioned moveon.org, except you.

Therefore you are off topic. If you want to discuss moveon.org, you're welcome to start another thread.

Instead you've just spammed this thread with mention after mention of something other than what we are discussing.

Please stay on topic, or explain how attacking moveon.org is going to help defend Bush's illegal activities over the last 3 years?


Thanks,
Skip
 

Ono Nadagin

Active member
uhmmm.....

Sorry if I touched a nerve Skip, the discussion was not meant to piss you off.

I mentioned Moveone.org only due o Nate's comments , I now after rereading your posts catch that he was quoting something you posted and that it does relate to the McCain-Feingold bill

how can you make it fucking illegal to critisze the president during election time. I hope I get in thrown in jail for a night when I BREAK THAT LAW. Fuck Bush

I now understand your post was referring to the US supreme court upholding the McCain-Feingold bill in part.... And that your making the assertion that it is the Bush Admin that lvld these restrictions when in all actuality it was voted in by democrats and republicans alike

I am also orry if you felt it was spam, or if you thought I was intentionally trying to take this thread off topic.... I was merely commenting on what had previously been mentioned.

And I see no reason why you should have censored my post, it was an honest response and reply to a comment made by another poster on this thread .... but thats your call to make as webmaster....

Once again, sorry for stepping on your toes, it was not intended

Ono

PS....I would also like to know wich of Bush's activities are or were illeagal......
 
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Noah

****** Member
Bush

Bush

Bush is a lieing mass-murderer, and should be treated as such. I notice a common trend amount the brainwashed bushhead morons. They can't prove a point without completely twisting the words beyond what was originally intended. You'll notice a simple comment such as "I don't like bush" will be twisted into something like "so you hate all presidents? then why have government at all?". I like the comment about Bush being a rallying point for this countries morons, it is the dead on truth. Without Bush, these christian right-wing wackos would still be in their foxholes, waiting for the next iq-less republican president to come along. It happened with Reagan, It happened with Bush 1, and now it's happening with Hitler 2. Too bad he's a 1 term-er just like his worthless daddy.
 
G

Guest

Right on Skip, BOG, Nate, Teflon, and Noah... I can think of nothing to add :D
 
H

HellBoy

Re: Bush

Re: Bush

Noah said:
Bush is a lieing mass-murderer, and should be treated as such. I notice a common trend amount the brainwashed bushhead morons. They can't prove a point without completely twisting the words beyond what was originally intended. You'll notice a simple comment such as "I don't like bush" will be twisted into something like "so you hate all presidents? then why have government at all?". I like the comment about Bush being a rallying point for this countries morons, it is the dead on truth. Without Bush, these christian right-wing wackos would still be in their foxholes, waiting for the next iq-less republican president to come along. It happened with Reagan, It happened with Bush 1, and now it's happening with Hitler 2. Too bad he's a 1 term-er just like his worthless daddy.

Noah, taken in it's entirity; your post simply drips for hate and distrust of Bush and all his cronies.... I don't blame you for that. I too believe that Washington is at it's most corrupt point it has EVER been in since the beginning of the Union.

I don't wish to rehash any pro/anti war, Bush, etc... discussions. We have heard it all ad-nauseum anyway...

I WOULD like to remind you, that regardless of how POORLY the decision was arrived at... no matter how many corrupt thieves made millions in the process... IT WOULD BE A GREAT MISTAKE to throw out the baby with the bathwater..

Yes... BUSH is an idiot, liar, and MOST PROBABLY a crimminal as well... (no doubt, there is PLENTY of financial monkey business to be uncovered..)

BUT.... can you not agree that for WHATEVER reason... the Iraqi people are better off WITHOUT Saddam and his band of murderers???

Again... Bush did the RIGHT thing (invasion) for ALL THE WRONG REASONS!!! ...it was a complete ACCIDENT on his part; I'm sure he could care less about the Iraqis....

I'll NEVER be convinced that invading Iraq at the time was a mistake... other than it SHOULD have happened YEARS AGO when Saddam first thumbed his nose at the UN sanctions...

I could care less if the Iraqis have a democracy or not... they should CHOOSE (freely) whatever form of goverment they wish. If they wish to go back to a Dictotorial regime... then that is THEIR choice... at LEAST THEY HAVE ONE NOW!!!!

922HellboyAvatarWordYellow.jpg
 

Skip

Active member
Veteran
Ono Nadagin said:
uhmmm.....

Sorry if I touched a nerve Skip, the discussion was not meant to piss you off.

I mentioned Moveone.org only due o Nate's comments , I now after rereading your posts catch that he was quoting something you posted and that it does relate to the McCain-Feingold bill

I now understand your post was referring to the US supreme court upholding the McCain-Feingold bill in part.... And that your making the assertion that it is the Bush Admin that lvld these restrictions when in all actuality it was voted in by democrats and republicans alike


No, there was NO mention of that bill in my post. Also I was just passing on something I received in email. This is NOT my own writing (of which there is plenty).

I am also orry if you felt it was spam, or if you thought I was intentionally trying to take this thread off topic.... I was merely commenting on what had previously been mentioned.

And I see no reason why you should have censored my post, it was an honest response and reply to a comment made by another poster on this thread .... but thats your call to make as webmaster....

Once again, sorry for stepping on your toes, it was not intended

Ono

PS....I would also like to know wich of Bush's activities are or were illeagal......

Well you completely changed the subject of the thread, on your own, and replied back to your own post with a long one off the subject. That is trolling. That is also STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE for republican apologists to change the subject away from the fact that Bush is a complete loser, and focus on other targets that have nothing to do with our current president.

Guess you just find it impossible to defend all the illegal activities of your president. I wrote out a whole long post late last night but managed to lose it at the last moment (lucky you!).

But no you didn't step on my toes, but if you want to debate, then debate the subject at hand. Want to discuss a different subject, start another thread.
 

Skip

Active member
Veteran
The first illegal activity Bush engaged in was a conspiracy to undermine the US election process. This conspiracy involved the co-opting of those sworn to uphold US justice and act as a balance of power to the other branches of government.

As a result US democracy has been undermined and perhaps permanently damaged - especially in the eyes of MOST Americans and the world.

And that's only the start of his illegal activities.... It's been ongoing since then, and so widespread, the man MUST be brought to justice. Perhaps his staunch support for the death penalty will be part of his future karma played out...
 

Ono Nadagin

Active member
No, there was NO mention of that bill in my post. Also I was just passing on something I received in email. This is NOT my own writing (of which there is plenty).

You quoted from ppl commenting on it and linked to articles you copied from, and those links discuss the McCain-Feingold bill ......

This year, through gerrymandering, data theft from Congressional computers, impeachments and recess judicial appointments, they are trying to consolidate their unprecedented power. And they have a special election-season surprise in store for us as well -- as the AFL-CIO argued before the Supreme Court last December(5), the Bushites have MADE IT A CRIME FOR THIRD PARTIES TO CRITICIZE THE PRESIDENT OR SAY THINGS TO INFLUENCE THE ELECTION during the election's most critical phase:

"This blackout will become national in scope on July 31, 30 days before the August 30-September 2 Republican National Convention . . and it will then continue without interruption throughout the remaining 60 days until the November 2 election. Thus, from July 31, 2004 until the election, it will be a crime for a union, corporation, or incorporated non-profit organization to pay to broadcast any 'reference' to the President by 'name,' 'photograph,' 'drawing' or other 'unambiguous' means anywhere in the United States." (6)

You post a bunch of reference links and this one has a (5) & (6)next to it seemingly assigning it to ref the quotes you posted below it further down in your thread.

(5)
http://www.oyez.org/oyez/resource/case/1637/

or (6)

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0404/hentoff.php

Both of wich deal with the the McCain-Feingold bill and the democratic response to the Supreme Court upholding portions of the bill wich was a bill originally thought up and pushed for by a democraticly held house and senate during the Clinton admin.

So, I think I am correct and your sir are incorrect... There is a referrence of the McCain-Feingold bill in your post, there for making it an on topic discussion.

Well you completely changed the subject of the thread, on your own, and replied back to your own post with a long one off the subject. That is trolling. That is also STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE for republican apologists to change the subject away from the fact that Bush is a complete loser, and focus on other targets that have nothing to do with our current president.

I have just proven I DID NOT change the subject of the thread at all, I merely was countering the points you laid forth in the original post and the links you used to support your point of vew/adgenda....

That is not trolling it is intelligent discussion/arguement/rebutal.....

And your correct it is the standard Republican operating proceedure to to have intelligent discussions and arguements and rebute incorrect points/opinions.... But your inocrrect once again when you label it 'changing the subject'.

I think I have proven I was on subject and did want to debate.... but your seemingly unwilling to let me, or you yourself dont know what you have posted about as I was completely on topic with things you quoted or said yourself


Skip............. show me some law he broke or proof of the conspiracy and lets get the trial started... iif you cant prove he broke a law it is all just hearsay & spin..........
 
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BushyOldGrower

Bubblegum Specialist
Veteran
Skip...Ono isn't a troll, just a Republican

Skip...Ono isn't a troll, just a Republican

And really he is just confused. You see Skip most americans are still a ways from believing all the things you already believe about Bush. The truth is starting to come out though.

Skip, I love ya but you gotta realize that you thread really angers some folks who have supported Bush. We were horribly attacked and you need to realize that Ono is not alone in his opinions. He makes pretty good arguments for the "evil side" as we see it and we need his opposition point of view so that we can make our points. This was your thread so you shouldn't moderate it just to be extra fair.

Gunny pointed this out to us all recently in the mods forum.

Skip even goes a bit far for me here but let us all remember to allow as much divergence of opinion as possible and to remain civil at all times. I know Ono can be a pain but if he is a troll he is as good as Krusty or me.

Don't anyone take offense from what I have said because we all have 2 things in common. We all have an a opinion and an asshole and both stink some... ;) BOG
 

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