Plant Farm 2016

Chunkypigs · Jul 11, 2016

plantingplants said:
... It was transplanted (it was in a mound, then I ripped it out by the gopher cage and moved it), and a few of the transplants are doing the same thing-- overall yellowing and stunted. ... Any ideas?

I'd say when you ripped it out you severed a a good chunk of it's roots and unbalanced the root system with the amount of foliage it had to support.
I think that's why the entire plant is fading all at once.

If you would have removed enough leaf load when you moved them by pruning it back after transplant they might have handled it better.

it will be interesting to see how they respond to the stress. I'd top them and give them a chance to build more roots.

I think throwing nutes at them is counter productive, try compost tea and EWC.

Good luck!

slownickel · Jul 11, 2016

Not sure if I believe these numbers... however, with that said.

You have so much sodium and potassium they are summing to 10%. That will twang anything. Most especially a calcium loving plant.

Wash quickly with a lot of water and wash in gypsum. Couple of pounds per plant. Spike a couple of spots heavy...

slownickel · Jul 11, 2016

Soil analysis from Spectrum of Oregon bag mix prior to adding calcium carbonate and gypsum.

plantingplants · Jul 11, 2016

Slownickel, thanks. I don't have citric. I'll try humic. Is there some reason the foliar I gave them didn't help? How many ppm of P do I need in the foliar and how do I figure that out myself? I'm willing to experiment and dump some Microna Ca on the runts. But I still don't understand why a problem with the balance of the soil would only be happening to the transplants. I have a lot of nice healthy green big plants.

Chunkypigs, thanks. It makes sense but I've seen even bigger plants ripped out of the ground with even less roots and be green and happy after the shock and fine after transplant. I also don't have any reason to think the soil biology is lacking.

slownickel · Jul 11, 2016

No gypsum around? Calcium carbonate won't get down deep too fast.

When you transplanted you probably did some damage to the roots, especially if you put in a heavy fertilization at planting. Where the plants potbound? Did you trim any roots? Maybe you lost all your calcium uptake points. Now that they are sitting in a high K and Na condition, they pick up the Na and K by osmosis (concentration). Stress from condition change plus the stress of a high salt soil may have been too much. The loss of older leaves makes me think P as well.

plantingplants · Jul 11, 2016

I didn't fertilize on transplant and they were not rootbound. They have always been in the same soil. They did get a heavy root pruning since I ripped them out of a mound but I've seen bigger plants pulled out with less roots and be fine. I pulled out a handful of them and some of the ones I didn't transplant are still alive and growing in their gopher baskets but did run out of N.

What makes the most sense to me now is that they don't have enough roots grown out to get enough nutrients to sustain the large above ground plant mass. Maybe Chunkypigs idea of topping is a good idea-- does that really make them focus on roots?

If it's not enough roots then maybe they just need some damn food?

plantingplants · Jul 12, 2016

Shit. I have two plants doing something funky. They look happy but they're super yellow on all new growth. The really new growth is pure yellow. It happened pretty soon after I watered in a 1/4 of my micro recommendation. Cu, B, Mn, Mo, Co, Zn, I think that's everything.

Here's an album of photos of it: http://imgur.com/a/njSxt

And here's one of the photos:

Stone House · Jul 12, 2016

plantingplants said:
I didn't fertilize on transplant and they were not rootbound. They have always been in the same soil. They did get a heavy root pruning since I ripped them out of a mound but I've seen bigger plants pulled out with less roots and be fine. I pulled out a handful of them and some of the ones I didn't transplant are still alive and growing in their gopher baskets but did run out of N.

What makes the most sense now is that they don't have enough roots grown out to get enough nutrients to sustain the large above ground plant mass. Maybe Chunkypigs idea of topping is a good idea-- does that really make them focus on roots?

If it's not enough roots then maybe they just need some damn food?

I would try some Root Excelurator from House and Garden or something similar.
I've had great luck repairing/stimulating roots with that product.

CoastalKind · Jul 12, 2016

That looks like a simple case of nutrient deficiency to me. In my experience if the roots get damaged too much during transplant the plant starts to wilt and look limp. This plant is not wilting at all. Might just be low on nitrogen but it hard to tell from a picture . I like to give plants a dose of kelp extract after I transplant them and especially if they are stressed. I would recommend 1 tablespoon liquid kelp extract per gallon, 2 tablespoons fish emulsion per gallon (for the N), and a Calcium/Magnesium supplement of some kind. Since you already hit it with a micro nutrient you will have have covered all your bases and should expect it to green up within the next two days..

FoothillFarming · Jul 12, 2016

slownickel said:
Some cocacola foliar would do wonders... haha. phosphoric acid and sugar. Yes, seriously.

You just blew my mind.

Have you added silicon lately? A good neem with Agsil 16 works to help with that. Also with potassium deficiency.

Just based off what the plant looks like, and not knowing if anything is getting locked up, your plants look as if they have a Mg deficiency, which leads to potassium deficiency.

Avenger · Jul 12, 2016

This has always been my favorite guide to visual diagnosis of nutrient deficiency. The photos they show are of tomato, but it is a pretty good general guide. I have always found that the written descriptions translate pretty well to cannabis.

So I will say my opinion is iron deficiency, again. Interveinal chlorosis with distinct green veins and netting.

_tessarecting · Jul 12, 2016

CaliMagic... calcium mg and iron..1.25ml/gallon foliar

FoothillFarming · Jul 12, 2016

Interesting post Avenger.

I have really liked NovaCropControls pictures and information. Some of it conflicts with what you posted. Interesting....(I am having trouble posting pics, the thread in my sig explains more about the NovaCrop and how to find it. In the last page or two)

If it is Iron, if it gets worse the leaves will turn pale/white.

Edit: Great info, thanks for sharing

slownickel · Jul 12, 2016

Avenger,

Great info! Thanks! :tiphat:

slownickel · Jul 12, 2016

From Avengers posting above.

Calcium: Ca Movement: Immobile
Function: Constituent of cell walls, maintains cell wall integrity and membrane permeability, enhances pollen germination and growth, activates a number of enzymes for cell mitosis, division and elongation.
Deficiency Symptoms: Curled and distorted leaves, strap-like leaves on top, tips turning brown to black, vascular breakdown at the base of the plant, short roots with comb-like or "herring bone effect".
Corrective Procedures: Supplemental substrate applications of calcium nitrate at 200 ppm Ca. Visible improvements should be evident on the new growth within 2 to 3 weeks. Do not overapply. Also allow the substrate to dry before irrigating to prevent poor uptake of calcium.

I think the symptoms are excellent but the last sentence is the best..... I think this is a big problem in most of the group. Folks don't realize how really dangerous constant over watering really is.

plantingplants · Jul 13, 2016

Thanks to everyone chiming in!

Coastal, they've been hit with 2-2-2 insect frass + Ca + micros. No change.

Foothill, yes when I watered micros in I water in .5g/gal agsil 16. I have not sprayed with Mg for 3-4 weeks. I'll do another foliar soon and add Mg Sulfate, as well as some AgSil. "If it is Iron, if it gets worse the leaves will turn pale/white." The newest growth (the tiniest leaves) is straight yellow/white.

Avenger, you and your Fe fetish. Thanks for noticing the netting. I was hoping it would show in the photos. lol I'll hit them with some Rebound Iron and see what happens. Thanks for the link. It looks like the sad transplants have a S deficinecy "However, in sulfur deficiency the yellowing is much more uniform over the entire plant including young leaves."... The soil has too much Sulfur though, and I didn't see it on the mulder chart. I do have some sulfur so maybe I'll spray some.

tess, thanks. I actually have all the separate nutrients so I'll be combining them.

slownickel, thanks for pointing out that overwatering can cause Ca deficiency.

And here's a happy plant, for good vibes! Small plant, but happy plant! BBHP.

FoothillFarming · Jul 13, 2016

slownickel said:
I think the symptoms are excellent but the last sentence is the best..... I think this is a big problem in most of the group. Folks don't realize how really dangerous constant over watering really is.

I know you think the amount I water is way too much. It's been a learning curve. In the bay area where I used to grow, I would only water about 2 gallons a week for large plants. The water table was high, and the temps were 75 all summer.

Now in the mountains, with less than 20% humidity, 10/10 on the UV scale, and 100 degree days, I water 50 gallons a day on my largest pots. I also water twice a day, 25 gal each time on the largest. The last week has been cool, and I took 5 minutes off the watering timer, and the plant started to droop a tad the second day.

The reason is most likely because the water runs through the medium. However with smart pots, you are always pulling air through the root zone.

Just my two cents.

slownickel · Jul 13, 2016

Any idea of your evaporation rate where you are?

plantingplants · Jul 13, 2016

How do you calculate evaporation rate into irrigation requirements? Is there a formula? My numbers for June - July - Aug are roughly 8 - 10 - 9 inches.

I find the mounds hold a lot of water so they don't droop for days but the top is drying out. Should I keep that upper zone at least moist all the time?

slownickel · Jul 13, 2016

Yes, there is a formula, but the calculation depends on retention in your media, which is going to vary dramatically.

I will open up a new thread and discuss irrigation. Pretty sure everyone needs a dose of reality regarding watering. Especially with all this medium in bags, etc...

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