Bubba D-Chem D x Pre-98 Bubba (fems)

I have made a mess of this grow. It would be convenient to blame the light, but I own the failure. Not really sure how it all went south so badly but it did. This was my second attempt with this light and the first wasn’t much better. In both cases the plants vegged and looked great under the light. But then about three to four weeks into flower obvious problems surfaced. If I didn’t have another plant flowering along with these five, I would suspect the added dolomite possibly played a roll. I do not usually add it to my soil mix but after having grown C4DD and seeing how much additional calmag it ate, I thought it a good idea to add some upfront to my mix. I added a half cup which equates to about 1/2 Tbs per gallon. I also have another plant flowering that used left over soil from the C4DD run - no added dolomite yet the plant has reacted similarly. I checked pH of runoff a few times and it always ranged from 6.5 - 7.0. They received one feeding at half strength of Neptune's Harvest... other than that it's been just water with a few waterings with a boost of magnesium.

In many ways the damage looks like classic over fertilization and or light burn. But oddly even some of the most lower leaves appear this way while others next to them look fine. And one plant in particular, #4 (front left), was hit hardest.

I have clones of numbers 3, 4 & 5 outdoors and will share their progress. Cuts of #2 did not root so I will attempt to reveg her. It’s now day 43 - pics were taken at day 35. The third pic is of #3 and the fourth of #1. The last pic is of the only other plant being flowered with these, and the one that's in my usual soil mix. I am inclined to think this is related to environment rather than nutrition, but could surely be mistaken. Welcome and appreciate any input about what might’ve happened here.



Really sorry about this, VG.

Shmavis said:

I have made a mess of this grow. It would be convenient to blame the light, but I own the failure. Not really sure how it all went south so badly but it did. This was my second attempt with this light and the first wasn’t much better. In both cases the plants vegged and looked great under the light. But then about three to four weeks into flower obvious problems surfaced. If I didn’t have another plant flowering along with these five, I would suspect the added dolomite possibly played a roll. I do not usually add it to my soil mix but after having grown C4DD and seeing how much additional calmag it ate, I thought it a good idea to add some upfront to my mix. I added a half cup which equates to about 1/2 Tbs per gallon. I also have another plant flowering that used left over soil from the C4DD run - no added dolomite yet the plant has reacted similarly. I checked pH of runoff a few times and it always ranged from 6.5 - 7.0. They received one feeding at half strength of Neptune's Harvest... other than that it's been just water with a few waterings with a boost of magnesium.

In many ways the damage looks like classic over fertilization and or light burn. But oddly even some of the most lower leaves appear this way while others next to them look fine. And one plant in particular, #4 (front left), was hit hardest.

I have clones of numbers 3, 4 & 5 outdoors and will share their progress. Cuts of #2 did not root so I will attempt to reveg her. It’s now day 43 - pics were taken at day 35. The third pic is of #3 and the fourth of #1. The last pic is of the only other plant being flowered with these, and the one that's in my usual soil mix. I am inclined to think this is related to environment rather than nutrition, but could surely be mistaken. Welcome and appreciate any input about what might’ve happened here.

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Really sorry about this, VG.

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Ahh I wouldn’t beat yourself up about it! Doesn’t look to have affected the overall bud structure too
Much which is a good thing rather than it happened earlier into flower. They do look deficient in magnesium leading to some spots almost looking p deficient. I’ve never used the Dolomite lime yet I’ve read though to stick around 1tsp per gallon so your numbers look relatively safe at a half tbs. if it was earlier I would say give a good flush and feed with 2 ml per gallon calmag and a light npk ph’d at 6.2 6.3 but it’s almost to late to reverse now. None the less I’m hopeful for you that the end product won’t be less than satisfying

Hey shmavis, tbh after your heads-up i was expecting them to look much worse!
Looks like they have struggled with nutrition or root problems, possibly made worse by environment, at some point during the first half of flower and they have been triggered to 'throw' their fan leaves and bigger leaves.... but as greenthumber says they buds don't look too bad and i'm sure you will get something to smoke-test, even if the yield may have been adversely affected. i would definitely finish them if it were me.
What's caused it is hard to say. i would discount light-bleaching as that would be worst at the top of the plant.

Cal/mag might well be factor, which then throws out other elements as well... but it could be a problem with the roots, root aphids or the plants staying too wet or too dry or soil too cold, or even rootbinding ( i think everything could be rootbinding lol! ) or something dodgy with the water supply?

Another possibility might be a cold draft at the front left?


You have done some great grows for me so i wouldn't be too disheartened, and these could well finish respectably. they wouldn;t look so bad with the dead/dying leaves removed.
TBH some of the best/smoothest smokes i've had have come from plants that have faded early so that might be the case here too. Personally i don;t worry too much about fading after 5-6 weeks. obviously there is a little more to this problem, but all is not lost yet.


VG

Thanks guys. Appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I can’t rule out bugs as I haven’t investigated like I should. Even though I changed the timing of my light cycle to better care for these plants, I have found my time spread thin with multiple home improvement projects and have just been riding it out because as you guys say, I will still have some buds to sample.

But it’s still a big kick in the nuts. I clearly still have a learning curve to overcome with this light. #3 has weathered the storm better than others. I am surprised and impressed that with all the stress there’s no pollen flying. Some pics at day 56:

Send it over here Shmavis I will dispose of it thoughtfully

Looks great tbh

Respect to VG gear.

Shmavis said:

Thanks guys. Appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I can’t rule out bugs as I haven’t investigated like I should. Even though I changed the timing of my light cycle to better care for these plants, I have found my time spread thin with multiple home improvement projects and have just been riding it out because as you guys say, I will still have some buds to sample.

But it’s still a big kick in the nuts. I clearly still have a learning curve to overcome with this light. #3 has weathered the storm better than others. I am surprised and impressed that with all the stress there’s no pollen flying. Some pics at day 56:

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You still done good Shmavis and we all know youve done better so don't worry so much Onwards and Upwards

Shmavis said:

Thanks guys. Appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I can’t rule out bugs as I haven’t investigated like I should. Even though I changed the timing of my light cycle to better care for these plants, I have found my time spread thin with multiple home improvement projects and have just been riding it out because as you guys say, I will still have some buds to sample.

But it’s still a big kick in the nuts. I clearly still have a learning curve to overcome with this light. #3 has weathered the storm better than others. I am surprised and impressed that with all the stress there’s no pollen flying. Some pics at day 56:

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To be honest man it really don’t look bad! The buds look nice and tasty too. The coloring is nice as well! You know I’ll help you test sample it first ( you know... just for safety purposes) lol

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Send it over here Shmavis I will dispose of it thoughtfully

Looks great tbh

Respect to VG gear.

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Haha yeah I though the same as well!

Thanks fellas for the kind words. Yes, onward and upward! Honestly, it wouldn’t bother me at all if these were beans I had bought… that’s where the real kick comes in.

And yes, all due respect to VG and his work.

I will third that to vg!

edit, posted in wrong thread!

VG

What type of light are you using?

EDIT: FOUND IT ON PAGE 4.

I have the same issues under cobs. Lots of people seem to. I bought a 600 dollar light reader as a result...It's not intensity...

I moved dying mom plants to a normal hps bulb other day and all plants that look like cal mag starved or potassium starved fixed themselves in 2 days. I find it odd blurple does the same as supposed full spectrum cobs.

I read one thread where someone upped mag and cal by 400 Ppms and it supposedly fixed the problem...that sounds very dicey to me.

If you have fungus gnats it seems to triple the problem as you would expect from them. I am starting to think it is indeed LED spectrum that is the issue. Sometimes it is fine in veg but flower is always the same directly under the lights. Only plants on perimeter and the branches farthest from light look ok. But it isn't intensity causing this.

I’m having the same problem with a full spectrum quantum board. All the leaves that are exposed the most to the light are yellowing off drastically.

All leaves below the canopy are healthy and green. I’ve got the light on around 50w from the wall (full capacity is a pull of 150w). As the space is very tight and small, I figured it was because the tops were too close. Now I’m thinking I might be wrong.

As 40 points out, the plant was fine in veg.. What an annoying problem. New grow I might try raising the light but if 40 is right then it’ll probably make no difference.

Edit: I also thought the plant wasn’t getting enough Mag and so upped the dose of Epsom. It didn’t do a thing...

Light bleaching is quite distinctive and the leaves turn white.


Thanks guys for chiming in. I wonder of the yellowing is simply the leaves getting so much light energy that the roots can't keep up with the mineral supply for growth and so the leaves yellow in order to supply the extra elements?


I don't see the problem really but i use very large pots and perhaps the extra root space and lesser rootbinding helps to keep the balance?


I have always felt that LEDS work better when there are multiple light sources spread over the canopy rather than one big one in the middle.


Perhaps raising the light a bit further will irradiate the canopy more evenly and reduce the problem in the middle?


just thinking out loud..
VG

Yep, I’m going to try this on a test plant next run. Raising the light I think might help reduce it. I used a 15 litre fibre pot so root space isn’t bad.. I knew I would have teething issues on my first run so I planted a freebie Allkush from Paradise Seeds I had laying around to test it. I’ve learned quite a lot from my little one space micro grow already.

The actual flowers don’t look terrible at all, it just looks unhealthy with all the leaves yellowing off.

Anyway, don’t want to take the thread off course. I think the flowers that Shmavis produced, even with the problems, look lovely

Thanks a lot guys. I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge/insights/experience(s). And as such don't see the discussion as a derailment. I'm here to lean just as much as I am to share my grows.

What I find really interesting is 40's mention of fungus gnats. When vegging some plants under my COB panel I ended up with a bug problem and wasn't sure if they were fungus gnats or root aphids. They multiplied so quickly and acted differently from what I remember fungus gnats acting that I thought they were root aphids... now I wonder.

I also noticed such issues under my COB panel but not to the same extent as under this Quantum Board. And yeah, it is frustrating to have plants veg so nicely and then clearly have issues around week four of flower.

On root space: That could be. I am especially intrigued by the thought that root space and the light affecting the metabolism could be at play. I went from one gallon pots to five gallon at flip so I would've thought there'd be plenty of root space still available at week four... but perhaps not.

Thanks again guys. This light is clearly going to require me to pay closer attention to my grows with it.

The three I have outdoors are doing well and will share some pics when they get further along.





(You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kalbhairav again.)

Glad to hear that the outdoor ones are doing well shmavis. Presumably you have harvested the indoor grow? i hope you get some decent smoke from that too.


Personally i think problems like gnats can be made worse under LEDs because of the increased exposure to lower temps - caused by the reduced heat hitting the plants with LED. When the ambient temps are lower, i find that the soil will stay wet for longer and you tend not to get the soil drying enough between waterings to check their cycle. This can be compensated for but by the time you realise the gnats can already have become too numerous and the problem is already there.


VG

I've found that even with the cooler temps under the quantum boards,they seem to drink a lot more than under a cmh.Have had the same issues under them as other posters,have had to use a shitload of mag and some extra n to keep plants green in flower.

VerdantGreen said:

Glad to hear that the outdoor ones are doing well shmavis. Presumably you have harvested the indoor grow? i hope you get some decent smoke from that too.


Personally i think problems like gnats can be made worse under LEDs because of the increased exposure to lower temps - caused by the reduced heat hitting the plants with LED. When the ambient temps are lower, i find that the soil will stay wet for longer and you tend not to get the soil drying enough between waterings to check their cycle. This can be compensated for but by the time you realise the gnats can already have become too numerous and the problem is already there.


VG

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Hey VG,

Yeah, they're down and have been drying slowly - still need to cut them up. I have done very little sampling as of now. I have smoked a bowl or two from a couple of them but was already under the influence, so not a fair assessment. I have so many home improvement projects going right now that I took next week off. This will give me the opportunity to do some wake & bake and sampling through the day - hopefully it won't zap my motivation.

Grabbed some pics today of the three that are outdoors. #3 is the tall one in the back and the front two are 4 & 5, which look very similar - short and tight.



4 & 5:



Monday or Tuesday I am going to pot them up, but have to get some soil first.

jaded1 said:

I've found that even with the cooler temps under the quantum boards,they seem to drink a lot more than under a cmh.Have had the same issues under them as other posters,have had to use a shitload of mag and some extra n to keep plants green in flower.

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I feel like this was the case as well, that they were thirsty sooner. I am really going to have to pay attention next round with this light.

Also... this is interesting. I have three C4DD cuts in SOLO cups. They were under a 2' four bulb T5 fixture for a total of 96w. Early on a bulb died, then another, so for a long time they were only under 48w. I was actually really surprised at how good they continued to look... water only and they stayed green and healthy looking. I was impressed. Then another bulb died so they were only under 24w. I want to say that lasted about two weeks before that bulb burnt out. Instead of getting new bulbs I just dialed down the QB as low as it goes (192w), left it fixed at the very top of the tent and put the three clones in there, not on anything, just the floor of the tent. Really wish I would've taken a pic before putting them in there to show how good they looked... well within about four days I could see the same problems manifesting. This surprised me, because before plants vegged fine under the light. Meant to grab a pic when I saw them turning but got too busy and kind of forgot. I think it's around ten days now that they've been under the QB and as can be seen, the hurt has really been put on 'em. Have some new T5 bulbs on the way. Hopefully I can get some cuts to root.



Maybe growing under QB just isn't for me. Another thing I was wondering about is off-gassing. It is a new (cheap) tent... but I thought that isn't such an issue nowadays. (?)

Interesting about those in the solo cups, maybe it is the sheer power of these quantum boards that is the 'problem' ?


The outdoor plants look VERY happy in the sun there.


Good luck with the DIY and the bud sampling...
VG

I have wondered about that as well, the power... the other thing is that with neither run under this light did I maintain higher temps and humidity like I did under the COB panel. And it was suggested to me to do so. Next run I will because the C4DD clearly preferred the higher temps and humidity.

Thanks VG. Still neck deep in projects. So much so that I meant to get this pic up after taking it this past Monday... but looks like today is the day instead, lol. I did get around to potting them up the prior Monday so this pic is one week after transplant. Left to right: 5,4,3.



Checked them this morning - still looking happy, happy, happy!

The sampling went well, despite the butchered finish. I am really excited now to see how #4 & #5 finish up outdoors. I found them to be bordering on narcotic, which is what I had grown Pre-98 in search of, but didn't find, yet still ended up loving it with the clear cerebral-body-relaxing effect I found. #2 was similar but not as potent. Those three all looked to lean more to the Pre-98 side. #1 was almost racy... and #3, the girl that stood strongest in the adverse conditions is likely the most potent. She starts out fast and very cerebral only to progress into more of a (almost) crash that is more similar to 4 & 5. So basically more of a roller coaster ride but smooth at the same time, thankfully not racy. I didn't sample as much as I planned but did enough to know that it's worth hanging on to instead of heading to the compost pile.

I always feel so challenged when trying to describe terp profiles... but will say I found it interesting that the two that looked to lean more Chem D were definitely the stinkiest of the bunch.

Will probably wait until the end of the month before potting up into their final containers. I did notice that when I potted up to current containers that the root balls weren't nearly as dense or nice looking as I am used to seeing... I think part of this is that I always add Maxicrop and a drop or two of Superthrive to my water but outdoors had just been watering from the hose. So after transplant I watered them in with usual additives and have been doing so with subsequent waterings. Curious to see at transplant if root balls are more in line with what I am used to seeing. Will update as they move along.

Great weekend to all!