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Breeding a Cambodian auto

teide

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
There, some buds forming on the sativaish hybrids. The leaves look cambodian, but I don't know what to think of the kush-nugget bud. Might be from the auto, hope to select for more stringy buds in f3, buds likely to foxtail. Trying to make an auto that produces dreadlocks is a parallel project.

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romanoweed

romanoweed

Well-known member
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There was a very good article about how they bring in lost Traits in Potatoes, wich have a very hard Time sufviving the heightend Temperatures today.

It holds goo Information about itf that Diversity of even Wild Potatoeas is needed or if this is just talking of Campains.

I just boundled the importent Information, cause i found it very essential to earn about REAL Breeding, not saying other Breeding is unreal, but saying this is a PArt we should look further into especially as Tripweedlovers.

------------------------------------------

Here we go, first the Essential Iformation of your Article, at End there is the Link of full Article:







The hardest part comes next: getting desirable genes from wild species into cultivated potatoes. In the past, breeders acquired traits such as disease resistance from a dozen wild species. Those victories were hard-won, some taking decades to achieve. That's largely because wild relatives also carry many unwanted traits, which combine with those of cultivated potatoes and vastly lower a breeder's chances of finding a good variety.
Even without wild species, potato breeding is a crapshoot. Because breeding lines have four copies of their 12 chromosomes, the traits of the two parents show up in the next generation in largely unpredictable combinations. As experts say, the current varieties don't breed true, which is why farmers plant bits of "seed tuber," which yield genetically identical plants, rather than seeds. Compounding the headache, breeders select for many traits at once, further lowering the probability of finding a winner. "The numbers get really hard, really fast," says Laura Shannon, a potato breeder at the University of Minnesota in St. Paul.
Genetic markers linked to specific genes have sped up the process. To find out whether seedlings have inherited a trait such as disease resistance, breeders can quickly test for the marker rather than wait for the plants to mature and then expose them to the disease. Even with this tool, a potato breeder must screen up to 100,000 offspring per year. It can take 15 years or longer to find one with the right traits, fully test it, and generate enough seed tubers to distribute to farmers.
Another frustration is that potato breeders can't easily improve existing varieties. Once a potato variety is established, introducing new traits while retaining all of its favored characteristics is practically impossible. That's why classic, widely grown varieties, such as the russet burbank, still dominate the market many decades after their debuts.
Patient breeders using traditional methods can nevertheless achieve impressive results. In 2017, for example, CIP released four new varieties in Kenya, the result of crosses from established breeding lines. In field trials, the new potato plants maintained yields with 20% less rainfall and temperatures higher by 3°C.
Such success shows there is still genetic diversity to be tapped in existing breeding lines. But researchers fear that gene pool may not be deep enough to adapt the potato to future climates or enable other improvements. Wild potatoes, however, hold valuable, untapped genetic diversity. One trait from those wild plants, Mendes says, "could save our life."


---


Last year, at an EMBRAPA research station near Pelotas, technicians in lab coats leaned over the wild species Heiden had collected. They gently daubed their faintly purple flowers with yellow powder from a plastic tube, fertilizing them with pollen from domesticated potatoes.
In a nearby greenhouse, tables were lined with the offspring of previous crosses. Researchers have evaluated thousands of those seedlings for health and yield, among other traits. They screened older plants for drought resistance by limiting the water in plastic-lined troughs. In a temperature-controlled walk-in chamber, researchers tested the ability of other plants to withstand heat; the yellowed plants appeared to be sweltering.


Such expansive testing is aimed at moving wild genes into traditional breeding programs as quickly as possible. It's part of EMBRAPA's larger effort to help Brazil expand production of potato, the country's most important vegetable crop.
In Lima, the Crop Trust has funded CIP to test wild varieties for promising traits even before any breeding begins.


--


In May 2018, as part of their search for more resilient tubers, Potato Park farmers neatly piled red, yellow, and brown tubers harvested from some of Ellis's experimental plots on rows of sacks, scoring each variety for yield and health. Local farmers had abandoned many of those landraces generations ago, as villages faded and exchange fewer plants. Bringing some of that ancient diversity back into cultivation could hedge against environmental change. In Potato Park, farmers have already tried to escape the pests and disease that thrive in warmer temperatures by moving their cultivation 200 meters higher over the past 30 years. But René Gomez, CIP's curator of cultivated potatoes, warns that arable land is scarcer at higher elevations.


https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...ing-revolution-could-unleash-potential-potato
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romanoweed

romanoweed

Well-known member
So my Interpretation of the above Knowledge:

You can cross Cambod with Automatic, but you will have to select the weak Traits out of Auto, and, they use numbers of 100000 s, and they say its huge selection from a completely Genetic-Base-Strain to a wished Strain necessary. Like insanely huge.

So, otherway said: if you cross bouth, yes you gain Automation, but you loose so much Trip, and only if selected the Automatic (on its own, or in Mix probably too) you can Gain Trippyness per Time. Otherwise you loose as much as you gain by a simple selectionfree Outcross . The secound interpretation i make of above Article. They kind of mentioning, if they want to increase resistance to Climatechange, and this Trait is absolutely deep burried in a already longdeveloped Landrace, they basically failed, or it was a shoot in the Dark, the Trait is so hard to find, so deep burried.

If i think now of you using a Automatic Genetic, wich is only 0,000001 Trippy , just weak, im doubting if you not better search a Strain wich already has some Tripyness, but also has that earlyflowering Trait.
A bit of bouth so to speak, cause like said they said deeply burried things are basically impossible to find. I think that means, you will never be able to loose the Weakness in your Automatic, cause there is no trippyness to select for.(actually i should say weakness to breed out cause its omnypresent.??)
And therefore you may rather hunt for a moderate shortflowering, but also moderate Trippy Chinese Strain as a a Shortening-Material. Or a northern Viet , a northern Thai . Cause you can breed to somewhere, you cant breed anywhere from an auto, its weak, headichy, its Russian, its far northern, its just basically no trippy Basis there. And you get way less Hybridanxiety that way, i think. China is pretty close to were Tripweed came from.
 
teide

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
I have Thai Chi seeds that I also plan to use for a cambodian cross. That cross will surely result in shorter flowering, also retaining some potency. Maybe I can get it down to nine-ten weeks flowering, but that will only be good for an indoor grow, though.
I need to implement autflowering genes in the cambo hybrids to get them to finish in 60N.
I agree with you that by crossing with a ruderalis, I will lose the trippyness related to the long flowering landrace, but with enough selection and bx I will get an autoflowering plant that has cambodian genes and hopefully hardy traits enabling me to grow it outdoors. Growing cambodian genes in my back woods is more important than getting a trippy high, I can get that from the cambo photo version, or a slightly quicker finishing hybrid version of it, or from my Dr. Grinspoon.
Something deeply buried, as you say, or multiple recessive traits, I agree will be very difficult to pass on. It will required numbers and skill that is way beyond me.
I think however, an auto or pure ruderalis cross is within my possibilities. The auto already has potency, and a rudy hybrid will have some percentage offspring with thc and nice terps, further selection and bx will increase potency, I'm sure. I guess the trippy characteristic of the high might be closely related to the long flowering trait of the landrace and disappear with the endless flowering period bred out. But ACE seem to have been able to retain much of the zamaldelica high in their auto, so it should be possible to get some trippyness in a hybrid where auto genes are implemented..
 
romanoweed

romanoweed

Well-known member
yes, i think we bouth agree!

Exactly, when you cross Auto x hallucinogen Cambod, you end up with a 50 PErcent hallucinogenic Plant Genotypewise. Wich by the way doesent really exist i guess. At this point it will no longer be hallucinogenic Genotypewise. It will be euphoric if youre lucky.

Phenotypewise you can really Gain something , so selection is where you can make Points in Trippyness per Floweringime. We agree.

I also see you think realistically, and you see the Cambod x Automatic Project not to gain Tripweed outside, and grow some pure Cambodian Tripweed instead.
If you after that trip, that hallucination, that feelgod aspect, its very hard very hard to maintain.

Thats why i wrote all that Knowledge, and stick with it: to let the trippy hallucinogen Aspect the most untouched, you may rather use a Chinese, northern Viet. And yes, i also see it rather wouldnt be enough to make it finish at 60 degree Nort.
So, i dig your Decisions. I personally would still use my Approach and harvest very early, but thats my Taste, unruipe as Lastsolution.
I strongly recomend looking into ACE Yunnan (Chinese if you find them )
 
teide

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
Thanks for all the good feedback, romanoweed, I appreciate your points.
I won't be buying seeds for many years now, got to work with what I got.
My Thai Chis from ACE luckily have yunnan in them.
 
teide

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
I have just popped three Siberian ruderalis seeds as well. Will cross them to the cambo. Hopefully this will give a more sativa pheno in f1 compared to the current f1s that clearly have indica influence. If that influence cannot be bred out, it is far better for me to use the rudi, as I want no afghan traits. I want a tall, lanky auto with fluffy buds and the most slender leaves. Never ever seen that, though.. The terps of the rudi are also enticing, same with the cbd and the hardiness. But zero thc is a big turnoff..
Something desirable might turn up in the f2, so all hope is not lost, but alternative auto donors are definitely on the agenda.

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gorilla ganja

gorilla ganja

Well-known member
You should try that cross as well. There will be some that still have higher THC. The trick is finding and breeding with them, especially in the first generation.

I am running some Leb27 this summer and they look very Sativa and are semi-Auto.
That may be a good one to try and cross with the Cambodian as well. Not sure if it is fast enough for you though. Looking like maybe a end of Sept or early October finish at 55N. Thats pushing it here and I think your futher North than me.

Peace GG
 
troutman

troutman

Seed Whore
Are you guys only breeding indoors while attempting trying to create a locally adapted Northern strain? :whistling:
 
gorilla ganja

gorilla ganja

Well-known member
I do both inside and outdoors.
Have to test them outdoors if thats were they will be grown.
We only get about 4 months or so outdoors here. So some steps are done indoors to speed up the process.
 
romanoweed

romanoweed

Well-known member
@troutman and others: did anyone ever hear of an Autodominant Landrace wich also is fairly strong, or even trippy? Werent there some southern Chinese Strains, i recall in Yunnan Area wich were slightly Thcrich, would they work? Im just adressing these cause they are fairly close to Laos Vientmas, and it would therefore be gold? (i know most Yunnan is Hemp)
 
teide

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
Yeah, GG, leb27 is stated to be able to finish at 60N. I ordered those along with some other Danish strains, but I think it will struggle here. I might try it outdoors next summer. I plan to cross it with an auto, I was hoping to use the tangiematic x erdpurt f3, if they are ready next summer.
Troutman, my cambodian photo period needs to be grown indoors, obviously, same with these cambo f1s. As soon as it is autoflowering it will be tested outdoors. Some crosses and strains can go outdoors for a seed run even if I don't expect them to finish flowering. As long as they survive until ripe seeds can be harvested, I can put them outside to save space indoors. The Cambodian in some unfinished version might go outdoors as well, just for fun. Pollen donors, photo or semi auto can also be done outdoors, to save space and avoid contamination in my limited indoor grow space.
 
troutman

troutman

Seed Whore
I bet if you grow enough F2's outdoors you'll find something. F1's will still have dominant genes
and if they are from the late flowering parent you won't get anything early enough.

I know, I've already been there and done that. ;)
 
teide

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
Damn right, that's why my cambo f1s are indoors. My Kc45 f2s are split between indoors and out. I need such a big population to find the autos that I had to put some outside. I've finally found the first auto, after 14 seedlings. It's a numbers game, as you said earlier. Auto selection in f2 is more convenient for me outdoors. Auto testing needs to be outdoors, as that's where the cambo wil eventually grow. But before the hybrids are auto, no way will they finish outside here at 60N..
 
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