A5 S1 test Thread

THC123 said:

I was getting real sick and tired with these miserable suffering plants. So I bought a dimmer for the light today. It was 99 euros but now I can at least control the light intensity.

I will do an update tomorrow, but let's just say they don't look happy. That should change soon, they are finally getting a break. Even a mom of mine that had been under 250 MH an V600 viparspectra for months with a well established root system couldn't take it at 120 cm distance.

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THC your doing ok...just ber with them...remember these are a straight doubling up of hazeA on to hazeA (hybrids) so some may act up...its gona be all about finding the phenos that perform the best with these...then continue with those for the long run.

It is not them that is the problem it is me using this lamp for the first time at home without co2 supplementation and automatic climatization. All plants had problems, even plants that had been under another led for 8 months.

I have now set the dimmer at 10% the lowest setting to let them green up.

Also had to make a few online orders as with the dimmer on, even when my heating in the house is on 20 degrees, I barely get to 21 degrees.

I have ordered a tubular heating device for greenhouses to raise temps a bit and I have ordered a long heating cable that I am going to install under the plants.

The plan is to make sure the temp of my roots are higher at night than during the day so they will stay nice and compact to minimize the stretch.

I also completely removed the humidifier as it messed with the leaves, I am now waiting for a cold vapor one to arrive.

Haven't done the update yet...I have severly injured my hand while making CO2 generators and trying to talk to someone at the same time. I was lucky not to have hit a tendon. I couldn't even roll a joint yesterday...

Because I exhaust in the same room with the door open (or else no way to keep temps a bit okay without major expenses) I figured they could use some extra CO2 so I started wit yeast and sugar. Also ordered a co2 meter, let's see how it works, it is already bubbling.

In the future I will buy a system with bottles and a valve + controller but it has to wait a bit.

Growing with CO2 would be easier for me with these lights, at least in winter, to keep temps up. This way I can seal the room (sometimes exchange air) and keep temps comfortable.

THC123 said:

It is not them that is the problem it is me using this lamp for the first time. All plants had problems, even plants that had been under another led for 8 months.

I have now set the dimmer at 10% the lowest setting to let them green up.

Also had to make a few online orders as with the dimmer on, even when my heating in the house is on 20 degrees, I barely get to 21 degrees.

I have ordered a tubular heating device for greenhouses to raise temps a bit and I have ordered a long heating cable that I am going to install under the plants.

The plan is to make sure the temp of my roots are higher at night than during the day so they will stay nice and compact to minimize the stretch.

I also completely removed the humidifier as it messed with the leaves, I am now waiting for a cold vapor one to arrive.

Haven't done the update yet...I have severly injured my hand while making CO2 generators and trying to talk to someone at the same time. I was lucky not to have hit a tendon. I couldn't even roll a joint yesterday...

Because I exhaust in the same room with the door open (or else no way to keep temps a bit okay without major expenses) I figured they could use some extra CO2 so I started wit yeast and sugar. Also ordered a co2 meter, let's see how it works, it is already bubbling.

In the future I will buy a system with bottles and a valve + controller but it has to wait a bit.

Growing with CO2 would be easier for me with these lights, at least in winter, to keep temps up. This way I can seal the room (sometimes exchange air) and keep temps comfortable.

Click to expand...

Man thats unfortunate...lets hope that injury heals quick...its a bummer if you cant even roll one...hope it works out for you.

THC123 said:

I am getting one with cold vapor, I removed it before lights out and plants are looking okay again.

My exhaust is already at bare minimum cuz the leds run so cool. With 18 degrees room tempt it gets to 21-22. I even had to add heat lol

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Hey THC!

Love my Spydr2 also, I actually spend more on heating than lighting, and the dimmer should have you back on track stress wise. Other thing with these is that you won’t see the same stretch after trigger as with hps, been almost half in my experience. Can’t wait to see these!

Do you have the 330 or 660 version?

Yeah these are nice lights and because they are so cool, they produce an excellent quality. We use the 660 at work. But there we have co2 supplementation and also dimmers. I figured I could just put the ligt higher because Fluence has a high ppfd cultivation chart which states the PPFD at certain distances.

Nevertheless it is indeed a challenge to provide the plants with an adequate climate in the colder months. But I ordered lots of stuff to optimize the climate.

I once did a grow with Viparspectra V600. I needed 4 of those to get an equal coverage (5 x 5 ). It consumed 1000+ watts (256 per lamp). ANd with those lights I had a bit of heat stress similar to HPS(although much less). Thing is with these it was also difficult to keep temps down. I now use them as lights for my motherplants. But even with 4 of these I never had lightburn. I even started fresh clones under the maximum setting. But this Fluence light is something else...

The customer service recommended a dimmer because I use a Tent which is a small room with lots of reflection everywhere, so this is why PPFD stays too intense. Changing the lamp output is the safest way. Plus I will save a lot on electricity as in veg the max setting is 50%(or 60 don't remember).

Okay guys, things have gone from bad to worse.......

I'll do a proper update later this evening but I have gotten to the point where if by Friday they are not looking normal, I will remove the Fluence Lamp and replace it with 3 Viparspectra V600 lamps that I still got laying around here.

I also use that Lamp for my moms and I have also grown SSSDH OJD cut with it without any issues.

The 3 Vipars will consume +- 750 Watt s opposed to the 330 from Fluence, but Frankly, I just can't wait anymore. It is clear that something is very wrong. And for the first time in my life, I have absolutely no idea WTF is going on. This scares me and also causes me to lose a lot of time.

Growing cannabis is my passion, and to be honest lately I can't focus because I am constantly looking at the plants, looking up information and it is distracting me from other important things. I just can't find rest if I don't get my plants healthy, you know what I am saying?

I will also contact the FLuence customer service again and provide them with all the data. I will also start a thread in the infirmary cuz I also got new issues with my plants.

Also mother plants that are perfectly fine well rooted and mnths old get problems as soon as I put them under the Fluence at 10% (so 90 % dimmed) AT 3 -4 FEET distance....

I am still getting light burn, plants don't drink much, stunted growth, smaller new growth, leaf tips doing weird things....

It is not the water or the soil of that I am 100% sure.

Have a look at some of my moms. They have been under a viperspectra V600 since octobre. They are certainly not the most healthy plants because they don't get much attention atm, but at least they look normal. The leaves are all shining, new growth is light green and normal size. They are looking happy.

The funny thing is, these plants have the worst possible conditions. They are in a basement, without any active intake or exhaust (there is a small hole were a bit of fresh air from outdoor comes in. It is really cold there 15- 17 degrees celsius and I only have one small oscillating fan there. Humidity there is high 50-80%. I use the lamps for heating because it is so cold there (the cellar is not under my house but somewhere outdoor hidden ) But still they look much better and even grow faster and drink more than my plants that have better conditions.

So the only thing different here is another LED light, colder temps(too cold) and a bit higher humidity.



-->



AMnesia core cut mom




Positronics Skunk x Haze



Karma's Happy brother cut

This is how I expected my plants to look and how they normally look with this soil and water.

In the cellar nothing I do can make these plants unhappy, they are strong as fuck, I mean (and I know many people say this) I have 20+ years of experience, I know how to make cannabis plants feel healthy and get good yields and vigor.

Yet nothing I do in the Fluence tent makes the plants happy, in fact they just get worse.


This is a picture of my killer A5, this plant did not have the initial high PPFD abuse(was planted 4 weeks later, however I did not have the dimmer at that time, but the light was 3-4 feet away.

After getting the dimmer, I put the setting on the lowest (10%) and moved the lights closer (45 cm), immedtiately I got more light burn(after a day) so now the lamp is 4 feet away at 10% intensity, should be really low ppfd, and yet the light burn continues. They grow slower now with lower light but they keep showing these signs, even on new growth.

Also just look at the color green and compare that with the pics above...ALso leaves are much thinner and less veiny than my moms. They are just not vibrant healthy green....



Plus many leaf tips are twisting, some point up, some down, and I am getting brown spots as well, it looks like leaf septoria. I don't think it could be calmag because the soil is full of nutrients and these are 5 gallon containers. ALso it looks like brown spots but you can kinda see through them.

So I just don't know what to do at this point except removing the light and placing those cheap chinese lights above the plants lol.....

There may be one more variable and that is CO2 ppm. I am going to measure it in my basement in a few minutes. But I have noticed that inside the house CO2 PPMs are quite high when all windows are closed and when I am home. it is always 800+ PPM while ambient PPM here is about 420-450.

I have kept windows closed and opened the door of the room where the tent is because if I don't do this temps get below 20(once a day i open window for 1 hour). Also the exhaust dumps it air in the same room(but I have done this before without any problems with HPS and other LED in winter. With all these measure plus 20 metres of heating cable installed + a heating tube I get to 24-25 degrees barely.

I will now make sure the exhaust goes to the attick and that I have a passive intake tube that is placed just under an open window. Temps will get lower this way as well as RH, but maybe this way, because they will have ambient co2 instead of 800 ppm, they will grow normal again? I don't know, just an idea.

Maybe they have these problems because CO2 PPM is quite high and temps are quite low (and maybe also oxygen cuz I only opened wind once a day (22-25 degrees now that light is placed higher)???

I would rather have lower temps and healthy plants lol. The mothers in the cellar are going quite well at very low temps.

If I would have more seeds I would start over with another light untill I could figure the problem out.

I will post data and pics of the plants later this evening or tomorrow.

If anyone has had the same experience with the Spydryx let me know.

In any case the a5 s1 are suffering the most, still look like they are 3 weeks old. I have put them in my greenhouse for the moment when the sun shines, an in the evening I put them were my motherplants are. Hopefully they bounce back soon....

HB cuts looking good.

THC123 said:

It is not them that is the problem it is me using this lamp for the first time at home without co2 supplementation and automatic climatization. All plants had problems, even plants that had been under another led for 8 months.

I have now set the dimmer at 10% the lowest setting to let them green up.

Also had to make a few online orders as with the dimmer on, even when my heating in the house is on 20 degrees, I barely get to 21 degrees.

I have ordered a tubular heating device for greenhouses to raise temps a bit and I have ordered a long heating cable that I am going to install under the plants.

The plan is to make sure the temp of my roots are higher at night than during the day so they will stay nice and compact to minimize the stretch.

I also completely removed the humidifier as it messed with the leaves, I am now waiting for a cold vapor one to arrive.

Haven't done the update yet...I have severly injured my hand while making CO2 generators and trying to talk to someone at the same time. I was lucky not to have hit a tendon. I couldn't even roll a joint yesterday...

Because I exhaust in the same room with the door open (or else no way to keep temps a bit okay without major expenses) I figured they could use some extra CO2 so I started wit yeast and sugar. Also ordered a co2 meter, let's see how it works, it is already bubbling.

In the future I will buy a system with bottles and a valve + controller but it has to wait a bit.

Growing with CO2 would be easier for me with these lights, at least in winter, to keep temps up. This way I can seal the room (sometimes exchange air) and keep temps comfortable.

Click to expand...

What is your humidity?

Ha I fried them on a new LED too. In recovery mode under t5 48 hrs later they are green again. Gonna give them a few days and a few feeds and then dimmed to the low. What height are you at for the light?

Thc 123 do you mind if we see pictures of the seed plants please...I know you dont really want to show them off with them being less than ideal...but if we can see them someone may be able to help
Your last picture ...the plant looks fine.....getting some fresh air in will definitely help....anyways hope you get back on track...
By the way I think the s1's have been slow for most people to begin with...hang in ther as they will take off....

Hi guys,

Been absent for a while with all the shit that is going on. Also lost a friend of mine, she was a 31 year old nurse and got the virus.

Also been busy preparing my food garden during my time off so I have another year of mostly free food. Especially in these times it is important to be self sufficient. and preparing my guerilla grow and second indoor grow. Still not completely ready with totally setting up the second but the plants are in progress. It will be mostly white og and then a few cuts nlx, 1 posi haze skunk and 1 white jones x gg3.

I mostly get up around 8 o clock and i am busy untill 22 I am working more now, than when I work lol, got a mountain of things to do.

Wanted to do an update often but it was always at this hour (after midnight). So what I did lol, I put all the images I shot over the last few weeks on the pc. Have now been organising them for an hour. But now it is past midnight and they still need to be uploaded 5 at a time here (they should really change that).

So I'll do the damn update tomorrow, promise, just need to upload and type some text. Now is too late I also need to get some relaxation.

In a nutshell got the dimmer, got co2 and par meter. Made some adjustments to the tent. The plants recovered nicely, no more weird leaves and normal color and shine (the skunk cross). When I got my par meter few days ago i measured and it was only 51 mm.(the lowest setting to make em recover)

Cuz the plants where green and because that is ridiculously low I carefully increased it to 100 mm. Next not even 24 hours after I saw already it was a too sudden increase (yellow tips) so dialied it back to 50.

Then over the last 3 days dialed it up 20% each day. I got to 70 mm and today and then I stopped. All plants now have serious yellowing again.

Now that I can measure everything I am even more perplexed and confused.

The a5 haze have been moved to my mother room under another LED and a 250 W MH.

They started recovering immediately and are now almost fully recovered, they actually have green normal shoots now lol but are still small cuz it has only been 2 weeks. . And there they get 150-200 mm (lamps are high to cover more area for moms). Also moved them outside in the Greenhouse last days during the day and there they get 1000-1500 mm (I know the sun is not comparable but still).

But plants in the tent are having problems with 60-70 mm??? One plant even died, a white jones x gg3 motherplant.

You will see in the update tomorrow.

All the plants are now in the Greenhouse because it is nice and at night they get heating and cables on the floor and a TL tube makes sure they don't flower.

I will put one plant back inside the tent and change one more thing (just basic setup again but with the dimmer)


Wednesday or Thursday I will take down the Fluence if I don't see any change and replace it with 3 Viparspectra's and around may 15th a 4th one will be installed to get decent coverage (they have horrible coverage).

I mean flowering plants need at least a lot of light, if I were to flower these plants now with these lights(fluence), how would I increase the light without frying them, no bloody idea TBH.


I will also order a new LED lamp because I started a second grow already and don't want to fuck them up with this lamp. I am thinking mars hydro TS3000 (budget). Would also be nice to have a LED that produces some heat for winter lol although now that will become less of a problem.

As soon as I have a nice stash I will try the SPydrx again. I will also contact Fluence again but before I do maybe someone here will be able to see WTF the problem is. In any case I also ordered a new pack of a5s1.

Cya tomorrow

Do you have any kind of plastic or pvc or anything that could be off gassing ? Is it a new tent ?

Hope the plants get healthy.
It really messed with your head when you can't work it out and things just get worse.

Really sucks about your friend.
F. In virus.

Hi guys,

a promised the update. Will do it in multiple posts as there are many pictures and different dates.

16/03

This is the last day the a5 were in the tent. Humidity and temps were low during the day sometimes 18-19 degrees with minimal exhaust and low humidity of about 20-30 %. Even though this is not optimal I never had problems with these conditions before. But I wanted to make it as comfortable as possible, I thought the healthier I get them, the more light they can handle.

So I installed a humidifier with warm mist that I already had. I tried different things. Putting it in the tent directed at the oscillating fan was the most effiient setup. It increased temps and humidity and gave a comfortable 23-24 degrees. But I only had it in the tent for half a day as the leaves and especially the tips started freaking out. And only the leaves that had light bleaching and the ones that had that weird unhealthy green color.

So then I put it out of the room so that it was sucked in the tent and was immediately dispsersed by the oscillating fan. Still it didn't work.

Then I ordered a cool vapor one. Also this ones caused the plants to freak out and it made the temps drop and didn't increase humidity that much.

I then ordered a co2 meter to see if I could make the exhaust exit in the same room with the door a lil bit open to raise temps. It was no problem, in fact during the day it was always 470-600 and when I was at home with everything closed it was always 600-900 PPM. So there was enough co2.

Doing this raised temps and humidity again with the cold and hot vapor humidifier outside of the tent. Growth rates increased due to higher LST and general temps but still the plants did not look happy.

The lights at this point were still at 100% but about 110-120 cm from canopy. Still plants were acting up and the a5 was suffering. The Skunk cross was also yellowing more and more.

Because I wanted to have an even canopy and because the a5 were suffering more than the skunk cross, I removed the first 5 nodes and started LSTing them. I figured this way the a5 will have time to catch up. Plus I can always remove excess grow to make everything fit.

I had spider mites and because I wanted to wait 10 more days to buy predators, I sprayed the plants with natriumsalts (soap kind). This one is safe for when you put out predators later and you don't have to wait too long.

I always use this and I treated all plants, the tent and the mothers. The mothers did not mind but the plants in the tent did and were severely damaged. One plant even died after a few weeks (a 8 month old white jones x gg3 mom that I wanted to flower as ell).

It is like somehow they get so weak in the tent that they can't take anything. They grow slow, don't drink much, really weird. (for this I made adjustments but more on that later).

Here some pics from 16/03



Poor a5, this one was my favorite and the fastest growing plant of all the seeds in the beginning. You can see how sad she lookss...



Here the weird leave thing. I know it looks like droopyness from overwatering but that isn't it. I have had other plants, like a white og mom and a small cut also start to droop like this after 12 hours in the tent.

Some tips are pointing down, some up, the weird color is from the light stress. And it is these points in the leaves that died off after being sprayed.



The weird coloration and weird tips started when I tried using himidifiers but already before they had yellowing. It is not any nutes because they received their first nutrients 3 days ago (slow release organic tab). PH of the soil is 6.8 -6.5 which is fine for organics.



It is hard to see but these leaves look totally unhealthy. Only the newest shoots look somewhat normal but they are way too dark green for being new shoots. The leaves, and especially the older ones are much thinner and look what a weird color of green the lower ones have. This has been a problem since the beginning, even on the plants that did not have severe yellowing from the start.

ENd of part 1

Ok guys I will do a few more posts and ther rest tomorrow. I had quite a few windows open with images ready to upload and had already written to updates. I was planning to click on submit after I as done. And then the fucking computer crashed so I have to start again. I already lost 2 hours so after these I will go relax and do the rest tomorrow.

Update 21/03

SO this is after I sprayed the plants against mites

These are a5 s1



This is after 5 days under MH and LED par values here were 110. The lights are quit high to get more coverage, the motherplants don't need much. They are not to make clones but to keep the genetics. If I need one to make clones I put it under the viparspectra in the center cuz there it is about 250 micromol.

I moved the A5s1 closer to the more powerful LED each day. They started out under the MH.

They immediately started looking better with thicker leaves.



My favorite one, the one that was almost dying also slowly started greening up here



Many yellow shootss were lost and all the yellow spots you see in this pic eventually became dry and died off.



New shoots slowly starting to green up.



Again here all light bleached tips died off, new green shoots looked okay. this was the first time I saw any real green on this plant lol. Sad isn't it.

This A5, the most healthy one(before) stayed in the tent and at this point here, I also removed it from the tent, 5 days later than the rest...





This is what I mean with plants just behaving unlike I ever seen before.

These are two identical clones.
Both revegged moms pruned at the same moment and sprayed with insecticide from the very same bottle and batch.
The one on the left stayed in the mother room. The one on the right had been a few weeks in the tent and was a healthy plant.

Notice the difference in color. (don't mind the fact she has a bit too much nitrogen) and how much they recovered from pruning. Bear in mind the one on the right was also repotted to 5 gallon. Almost no new growth and here she was already almost dead. SHe died 3 days ago, rip...

Only variables are light and location.

So it has certainly, in case anyone thinks these plants might be so onversensitive, nothing to do with the genetics as all plants that have been in this tent, under this light have major problems.

I replaced this plant with a revegged white og mom, and well , more on her later....

So back to the tent. At this point I still had these 2 in the room, I tried them simultaneously and indepentently but the plants just didn't like it. It made the tips of the leaves twist and turn. up and down. very strange.

So they were outside the tent. I had a tube connected for intake and the exhaust fan on minimal here (to keep temps as high as possible which was 18-21 degrees most of the time...). With the door almost closed and intake and exhaust in same room I could get 23-24 but the plants didn't like it.

I also tried fan on off 15 minutes to raise temps and humidity but it damaged the tips of the plants , they freaked out...

CO2 levels were always fine. Before I got the meter I thought that maybe, because intake and exhaust are in the same room with door a bit open, that co2 levels were lower than ambient co2 and maybe that could explain why they have the bleaching and slow growth.

It turned out that co2 was always 470-520 with windows open and nobody there and 600-800 in the evening with people present and everything closed. So that wasn't it.



As you can see here the top and lower branches have really damaged shoots that were almost not growing.



Close- up

And that was it for today. Don't want to be a nazi but try to wait with replying till I finished it cuz there are more to come.

Thx for reading this horror story

LostTribe said:

What is your humidity?

Ha I fried them on a new LED too. In recovery mode under t5 48 hrs later they are green again. Gonna give them a few days and a few feeds and then dimmed to the low. What height are you at for the light?

Click to expand...

Humidity before certain measures were 20-40%. Then after measures got it to 60-80%. High humidity and lower light intensity (with dimmer at minimal about 50 micromol) made them bounce bacn and green up again.

Lamp height before dimmer was 110-140 cm. WIth dimmer I lowered it to 60 cm (with dimmer on minimal setting.

Cantharellus said:

Do you have any kind of plastic or pvc or anything that could be off gassing ? Is it a new tent ?

Click to expand...

Hi, no I have used this tent for years with HPS and other LED's. I did however, due to extreme low temps with the fluence, add a heating tube, heating cables and also coated all entrances in the tent with a insect glue and I covered the pots with this glue to keep crawlign insects from reaching the plants.

But problems started before adding these things.

Some more A5 x hph x skunk suffering







Here in this pic on the left a newly rooted white og cut. Notice the difference in the color of the green shoots compared tothe plant on the right.

The cut came from the mother room.



A5 s1 s look at the leaf tips, apart from the burn they go in all directions

Look at this plant: 2 branches have shoots that are growing, the 2 other branches do nothing







And this a5 cross was almost totally fucked




As you can see the spraying with the already present light damage fuked them up even more, yellowing, browning, part dying off, oh the horror!!!



Again leaf tips going in all directions, this mainly happend when using humidifiers

Look how pale the color is

So at this point I decided to make some adjustments


I installed a heating tube that I placed inside the intake tube, to futher raise temps (with exhaust on lowest setting. I also wrapped another heating mat around the tube. I also installed 20 metres of heating cables to raise root temps as the lights run too cool for winter.

I also removed the humidifiers as they made the leaves freak out and I did it oldskool, with towels and a bowl. This did not fuck with the leaves and raised humidity better than the humidifiers.

With this I was able to raise RH to around 50 and temps to around 22-24.



In the corner I have an oscillating fan.



Lightswere about 80 cm from canopy at this point still at 100%