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Best top-feed medium - optimal balance between dissolved oxygen and nute availability

tilopa

Member
Looking for discussion and advice on media (substrate) for top-feed hydroponics. I say top feed instead of top drip because I believe the best system is one that give a strong "burst" of water in a short interval as opposed to a slow continuous drip system.

Looking at the range of available media and systems, with dissolved oxygen (DO), and nutrient availability/delivery in mind, we would have Aeroponics on the one end of the spectrum, and plain dirt on the other end. Aeroponics is arguably the best system for root health and growth, but it is much less forgiving, very hard to get right, and expensive. On the other end of the spectrum for a fool-proof system throw some bagged soil in a fabric pot and its hard to go wrong. I am interested in putting together a system that is a hybrid somewhere in between. Something that has very good DO but is not overly difficult to dial-in.

To break it down a little further, I'm calling the system a hybrid because a true (pure) hydroponic system would have water as the medium. Systems that fall into this category are: Aeroponics, DWC/RDWC, and NTF. I'm not interested in those types of system because I feel they are too much work, time, and cost to get right.

I've come to the conclusion that the system that is the best compromise between simplicity and optimal growth is automated top-feed. But key to that optimal growth part is the medium, and key to the medium is how well it creates DO and nute delivery. And to have good DO it has to be relatively porous, and drain well.

So, with all that in mind what is the best medium for a top-feed system?
 
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DunHav`nFun

Well-known member
By far and away with all the lil holes , nooks , and crannys that stored and held O2 either 24/7 or between timed feeds , not to mention all the irregular shaped nuggets that supported and locked around rootmasses for support , Lava rocks performed the best for me with big plants fully recirculating SWC/Krusty buckets , while also being top shelf as well for my timed fed Ebb and Flow buckets once I moved on to increased smaller plant numbers with flip rooms for more harveys per yr......but....

The easiest shit I ever ran before retirement was DTW Coco that killed it , and timed fed sequences with 1/3 coco/stringy fibers with 1/3 coco chunks , 1/3 coarse perlite in # 5 smartpots fed once a day till end of stretch , and twice per day once swellage set in till end of cycle......anyways .....Good luck and....

Peace.....DHF....:ying: …..
 

RockinRobot

Active member
Firstly. If ALL of the nutrition for a plant comes from a water based nutrient solution then it's hydroponic, whether there is media (F&D,Drip) or no media (DWC).


Based on your original question for media though...

Personally I think, if you aren't going medialess (DWC or NFT) then Flood and Drain in hydroton watered 3x/day is your best bet. My personal preference is Hydroton but lava rock works well also, as will loose rockwool croutons, though I personally don't like rockwool as I think it holds way too much water.

If you're set on a top feed the same 3 choices apply for media and hydroton would still be my first choice. It can be re-used, though cleaning is a bit of a pain. It doesn't cost much more than rockwool croutons though so I just replace every grow.


Grown in Hydroton F&D using Maxi-Bloom dry ferts

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tilopa

Member
Thanks for the replies. I'll look into lava rocks.

Nice looking plants Rockin.

Currently I'm doing flood and drain in buckets with rockwool croutons. I don't like the croutons because, as you said, they hold too much water and I don't think it would be wise to water more than once per day. I don't like flood and drain because it tends toward salt building. Also, I have to change the rez too often, or add fresh water, because once the rez gets down to about half full each flood brings the water level down to the bottom and the pump will burn up.

top feed seems cleaner to me because you are directing a controlled amount of solution down. In any case, I agree the difference between flood and drain and top feed is less significant than the media used.

I was thinking of trying half hydroton and half rockwool croutons. Do you think that would work well?
 

RockinRobot

Active member
Thanks for the replies. I'll look into lava rocks.

Nice looking plants Rockin.

Currently I'm doing flood and drain in buckets with rockwool croutons. I don't like the croutons because, as you said, they hold too much water and I don't think it would be wise to water more than once per day. I don't like flood and drain because it tends toward salt building. Also, I have to change the rez too often, or add fresh water, because once the rez gets down to about half full each flood brings the water level down to the bottom and the pump will burn up.

top feed seems cleaner to me because you are directing a controlled amount of solution down. In any case, I agree the difference between flood and drain and top feed is less significant than the media used.

I was thinking of trying half hydroton and half rockwool croutons. Do you think that would work well?

I would ditch the rockwool completely and go straight hydroton.

If you're dead set on top feed then running DTW in coco or recirculating hempys with perlite may be better options.
 

COS

Active member
After having root aphids for the second time in coco Im going back to rockwool. There coming from the coco my room is completely sealed no one else goes in but me and change clothes before entering my room.

Just cut and trashed everything I'm not fighting these fuckers again. Spray, clean and wait 2 months.

Never had any bug problems in RW but I did get root rot every now and than. But this time I'm using OPR control at 420 mv on my res.
 

COS

Active member
I use dosers with stock tank nutes DTW drip, only have to mix nutes and adjust ph once every 3 months.

I use smart bee controllers to automate my waterings, co2, temps, humidity, fans, filters, res chiller. This allows me to remotely control the grow with my phone for weeks at a time if I have to travel.
 

Gypsy Nirvana

Recalcitrant Reprobate -
Administrator
Veteran
- yeah - 50 good posts - on topic in the grow forums - will give you the ability to edit posts - we have to do this to make sure new members - are good for the site - and not just about, to mess about - and cause trouble -
 

roybart

Member
I would ditch the rockwool completely and go straight hydroton.
I agree, just wash it a few times to get the dust out. If you want to get anal, you can sort out the hydroton and keep the larger balls to the bottom and the smaller balls on the top.
I use rockwool for starting seeds only
 

RockinRobot

Active member
I use dosers with stock tank nutes DTW drip, only have to mix nutes and adjust ph once every 3 months.

I use smart bee controllers to automate my waterings, co2, temps, humidity, fans, filters, res chiller. This allows me to remotely control the grow with my phone for weeks at a time if I have to travel.

If you only mix nutes once a run how do you adjust feed levels?
 

tilopa

Member
I'll probably switch to hydroton in my F&D system, it's an easy transition and I can see if it works better. F&D and top feed are basically effectively the same. I'm not sure which is more reliable, meaning which is harder to fuck up.
 

COS

Active member
If you only mix nutes once a run how do you adjust feed levels?


Each doser can be readjusted and my veg room has a different set of dosers from the bloom room.

However I find that vegging under CMH and flowering under CMH I don't have to adjust the nutes much if any at all. Under HPS yes I definitely have to cut back on the calcium nitrate when flowering.

Veg room runs 630 watt DE CMH, bloom room runs 1000 watt DE CMH dimmed down to 860 watts.
 

RockinRobot

Active member
I'll probably switch to hydroton in my F&D system, it's an easy transition and I can see if it works better. F&D and top feed are basically effectively the same. I'm not sure which is more reliable, meaning which is harder to fuck up.

IMHO Flood and drain is harder to mess up. Drip lines can clog on top feed. It's a lot tougher to clog a 1/2" feed line to a flood table than a 1/4" feed line or even a drip emitter.

I don't know if hydroton will necessarily give better harvest than rockwool (would think they would be about equal) as both are designed for the same purpose and rockwool done right grows great plants, however hydroton is MUCH less likely to give you root rot issues as it doesn't hold nearly as much moisture as rockwool. You also don't need to adjust feed schedule as plants get larger as may be necessary with rockwool as the cubes fill with roots.

With Hydroton flood 3x during lights on and you're golden. I personally flood for 10 minutes 3x/day (Timer runs for 10 it takes an additional 5 min to drain).

No airstones are needed unless you're running beneficials. Only real point of failure is Pump and Timer
 
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