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SAVING NUTES IN COCO - NECESSARY NEED FOR "WATER TO RUN-OFF"

Kustom_ax

Well-known member
Veteran
Hi everyone,

Consider a coco grow where one uses only mineral based fertilisers and water till run-off, and run-off to waste.
Lets assume coco is always kept wet (e.g. water everyday in a 2L pot) in order to maintain a stable EC/PPM. Because, once water content decreases, by consequence, TDS will rise – pretty basic. And let's also assume enough aeration of the roots is achieved – perlite or some hypothetical O2 retaining/releasing additive.

The paradigm seems to be "feed your coco everyday and water till you see [x]% run-off". But, feeding with every water till run-off implies a constant loss of minerals to that run-off, right? Why is this necessary?

Isn't there a way to circumvent this mineral wastage?

In this regard, I don't fully understand the need to feed with every water. If part of the objective with watering everyday is to "flush potential salt build up" but also "feed your plant" that seems contradictory. I understand plants cannot uptake salts –duh– but adding water with a ppm of 800 would hardly help anyway. I am being very very dense here?

Would a watering schedule with minimal or zero run-off, "plain" and "feed" waterings simply be a viable way to make better use of your fertilisers?

I know the margin might be minuscule, but it would also help your wallet in the long run!

If we consider that the coco is being kept wet at all times, doesn't "the paradigm" mean that 1) plants aren't consuming nutes fast enough so there no realistic need to feed at every water, and 2) watering with mineralised solution every time is wasteful and counter productive in the eventuality of a salt build-up?

What're your thoughts and experiences with this?
I am WAY off?
Is salt build up, and/or feeding at every water, inevitable?

Cheers,
Kustom_ax

:thank you:
 
It’s possible but it’s not easy. 1.0-1.2EC of an extremely balanced solution through the life of the grow is the way I’ve seen it done. It’s hard to avoid the build up by week 3-4 of flower. Anyone who has used Blumats can relate.
 

Dropped Cat

Six Gummi Bears and Some Scotch
Veteran
A 10 per cent run off is standard, but many have done well
with a fresh top off with minimal/no run off.

Those same folks swear by a pH swing to offset the salts build up.

Read the plants, they always a few days behind your nute routine.

Keep us posted, we're counting on you.
 

Grapefruitroop

Active member
:lurk:
I was wondering about the same things that OP is into..


Im running a similar experiment but slightly different cause i transformed the substrate mix into a hybrid version of soil...its soil basically but with lots of aeration (30 peat 30 coco 30 perlite 10 ewc)



I fed every single watering since transplant in veg with an Ec hovering around 1.0...never runoff MegaCrop/MaxiBloom + Ncalmg



Now im at week 7 of flowering and im impressed that i made it with no deficiencies or any excess nute, no burnd tips, perfectly healthy and fast growth..


Sure i saved on nutes but probably that 30 % peat helped to keep the fuel tank with a bare minimum gas.....
With the lack of CEC of the Coco i think you must feed every watering to offsett also the high demanding environment that a growroom is....and like others said it can be easier to feed with runoff in coco to make sure to get the two things at the same time...proper nutrition and no salt buildup .
Very nice thread!:tiphat:
 

mowood3479

Active member
Veteran
Djm has a couple of epic threads where he does coco dtw with zero runoff they whole cycle.
I do similarly but will fertigate to runoff mayb a few times a run.
I run botanicare pbp with heads 6/9 mix. (With pbp it’s 5/15 ml per gallon (veg,bloom)
 

BubbaBear

Member
Watering till run off is a safe way of keeping things on track and avoiding salt build up but if you use drip clean, dont feed a heavy feed schedule and once a week do a decent watering with run off with just calmag and water or some tea and you'll be fine.
 

prune

Active member
Veteran
Unless you are able to perfectly balance the plants uptake with what you supply there will be imbalances. Anything in excess will build up slowly but surely, more and more as you approach the critical finishing stage, and begin to adversely effect your supposed balance. It's not a pretty finish and is one of the reasons that 90% of everything is crap
 

SuperBadGrower

Active member
My manufacturer recommends runoff at least weekly not only for salt buildup but also for root exudates which may attract or feed bad guys
 

Desert Hydro

Active member
Veteran
im right there with you. not because of the cost savings, but because of the water conservation. I am in the desert on well water so i have to haul water in. i cant be throwing water away. my PPKs recirculated the same water for months at a time with no issue. i would add nutes or plain water depending on what the ec was doin in the main res. i am now doing the same with my coco grow. i collect my runoff and add it back to the res, then adjust the ec and ph accordingly. no more wasted water, i collect my AC runoff and now i am doing less trips to get 100 gal at a time.
 

madalasatori

Well-known member
Veteran
DH I remember reading on here years ago that using ac run off to water plants was bad news. Can't remember why..
 

Grapefruitroop

Active member
I reuse the a/c water too....no problems at all....003 ppm.
I red too about those concerns but after a deeper search seems to be all rumors...
Its a good practice doh to bleach the hoses and clean the coils between grows to avoid slime, molds and dust buildups.:tiphat:
 
I use aquarium manifolds to control flow to each plant. By week 3 they are feeding for 1 minute, 8 times a day. If you aren't multi feeding you might as well be in soil. There is minimal runoff once it is dialed. Every few days I start each pump manually right after a feed. If there is no runoff after 20-30 seconds open the valves more. The only time the shop vac comes out is when i flush right before harvest.

picture.php
 

TanzanianMagic

Well-known member
Veteran
Hi everyone,

Consider a coco grow where one uses only mineral based fertilisers and water till run-off, and run-off to waste.
Lets assume coco is always kept wet (e.g. water everyday in a 2L pot) in order to maintain a stable EC/PPM. Because, once water content decreases, by consequence, TDS will rise – pretty basic. And let's also assume enough aeration of the roots is achieved – perlite or some hypothetical O2 retaining/releasing additive.

The paradigm seems to be "feed your coco everyday and water till you see [x]% run-off". But, feeding with every water till run-off implies a constant loss of minerals to that run-off, right? Why is this necessary?

Isn't there a way to circumvent this mineral wastage?

In this regard, I don't fully understand the need to feed with every water. If part of the objective with watering everyday is to "flush potential salt build up" but also "feed your plant" that seems contradictory. I understand plants cannot uptake salts –duh– but adding water with a ppm of 800 would hardly help anyway. I am being very very dense here?

Would a watering schedule with minimal or zero run-off, "plain" and "feed" waterings simply be a viable way to make better use of your fertilisers?

I know the margin might be minuscule, but it would also help your wallet in the long run!

If we consider that the coco is being kept wet at all times, doesn't "the paradigm" mean that 1) plants aren't consuming nutes fast enough so there no realistic need to feed at every water, and 2) watering with mineralised solution every time is wasteful and counter productive in the eventuality of a salt build-up?

What're your thoughts and experiences with this?
I am WAY off?
Is salt build up, and/or feeding at every water, inevitable?

Cheers,
Kustom_ax

:thank you:
Well that certainly makes the nutrient companies happy. I found a workaround.

1. Estimate how much water the medium loses between this watering and the next.

Coco has a water holding capacity of 40%. Let's say you let that go to 10%, or a 3/4 reduction of moisture, to 1/4. As a ballpark number, let's say that this increases TDS x4.

2. Take 1/4 of the recommended TDS, and that's your nutrient concentration.

So a recommended 2.0 EC becomes 0.5 EC.

As the medium dries, the nutrient concentration increases, and will never exceed the desired concentration.

You water or feed whenever the top of the medium is no longer moist in the morning. Which would be about 2x per week. (One feed, one watering).

Feeding drying media is different from feeding constantly wet media.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8885065&postcount=15

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8892663&postcount=16
 

Hydrobud

New member
If you don’t want the waste then just recirc it mate. Can reuse the run off a hundred times.
Think what a Wilma system is. Flood and drain tables, water farms etc too. They can all use coco and just constantly re-run the same nutes through it over and over again.
Means you can use the ppm meter to tell you how strong to feed aswell.
The plants feeding causes fluctuations in the mix so as long as it was balanced to start with, you just follow the ppm.
If it’s going up you need more water. If it’s going down you need more nutes.
Saves a fuckin fortune on the food bill.
Makes it easier to keep the feed spot on so you use a lot less.
And most inportantly the only waste you get is every 7-10 days when you clean the res out.
Time it right and you waste almost nothing.
 
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