a self pollinated F1, what might pop out?

igrowone · May 23, 2011

inquest

it does kind of look like a bucket, it's actually a tube made of aluminum flashing which makes for an inexpensive but efficient grow chamber

yes4prop215

this is why i opened the thread(as well as planting the despised seed)
i've seen quite the number of growers that report results like these from hermie seeds, enough anyways to actually try it
so far, so good is all i can say

Yes4Prop215 · May 24, 2011

yea some of the best strains were created from hermie genetics...the key is to find good backcrosses to get those hermies out...im still a newb when it comes to this so eager to learn how to stabilize these beans i have...if i could get this strain to not hermy i will have a straight winner on my hands...

i used double reverse doses on her and she stilll hermied...so not sure what im doing wrong..definately no light leaks or anything like that.

igrowone · May 24, 2011

Yes4Prop215 said:
i used double reverse doses on her and she stilll hermied...so not sure what im doing wrong..definately no light leaks or anything like that.

i have looked over some reverse threads, they were interesting
i have seen posts mentioning that the DM Reverse formulation has changed - doesn't work like it used to?
even at best, reverse seems to have varied results

inquest · May 25, 2011

Yes4prop215, Where are the pollen sacs located when induced to flower? I have a south african that shows 'em lower on the plant and only a few, to boot. If caught early and removed I have no more problems with them. Also, in my case it seems to be a response to moving from 24/0 to 12/12 abruptly. She responds better to a gradual change or vegging on 14/10.

Barring an environmental que, it's likely that the only way you'll get rid of it is through breeding with very stable (non-herm) genes. Then selecting only the non intersex plants and hope that they have the smoke you're after.... if not, try, try again! It's all a numbers game.

p.s. Dont get too hung up on backcrossing. To get the most out of that technique you must know a lot about the genes of the plant you intend to backcross to. If you make S1's of your prospective BX plants you'll see which traits he/she breeds true for.

Good luck on your project!

igrowone · May 30, 2011

time to gauge the progress - 5 1/2 weeks of flower
balls - 0 pistils - many, many pistils - in other words, no hermie still
this is good, the offspring is so much like the parent, by looks, i'd say almost a clone
the 2 big differences, no hermie(yet) and smell, this plant has no smell
barely noticeable when rubbed - my first no odor plant(i think these are fairly uncommon)
so pic from the top, the main cola is building steadily

igrowone · Jun 6, 2011

the 6 1/2 week has arrived, and yes we have no bananas, we have no bananas today
interesting how the genetic dice role, but some weeks still to go
very much a near duplicate of the parent, clone by seed(almost)
if it runs true to the parent, 3 maybe 3 1/2 weeks to go
pic is out of the grow chamber for a profile, just 78w of cfl's used

igrowone · Jun 13, 2011

the 7 1/2th week of flower, all is well, no balls, which is the big thing from this grow
fan leaves have mostly dropped, may have been a heavier feeder than my other grows
but reasonable return for my 78w, should be an oz or so
even the smell improved with this 'cross', a soft perfume has formed in the bud
the parent had foul smelling foliage, and a heavier perfume odor in the bud
there seems to have been improvement in the hermie trait and odor trait, hard to complain about that

igrowone · Jun 21, 2011

8 1/2 weeks of flower, looking like the strecth run has started
which is how i think of the last week, and feeling good about things
no signs of male parts, which accounts for the good mood
a very low but pleasant odor, and the buds started frosting up
nearly every trait of the badly hermied parent has been expressed
smell, plant height, structure, ripening time - all quite similar
everything but the hermie trait

igrowone · Jun 28, 2011

the time came to harvest, and a summary seems in order
this seed/plant came from a selfed parent, and it was messy
a 'severe' hermie(i.e. intersex trait), which put out male blooms fast and furious
the progeny showed absolutely no sign of male bloom
the usual advice on seeds like these is to toss them, i'd say 'not so fast'
the S1 strongly resembled the parent in almost every way, except for the male parts
last pic of the finished plant

northstate · Jul 4, 2011

Great to see this go down. Thanks for documenting it also as I have been interested in this too. We have a MangoHaze that put out three seeds last year at the bottom, so "what the hell right?" popped em and one just blew the others away came out female and is now almost six feet tall. Cloned and backed up but smells just like momdad. Eyes peeled for nanners later, but so far so good. Thanks again for starting this. NS

igrowone · Jul 4, 2011

northstate said:
Great to see this go down. Thanks for documenting it also as I have been interested in this too. We have a MangoHaze that put out three seeds last year at the bottom, so "what the hell right?" popped em and one just blew the others away came out female and is now almost six feet tall. Cloned and backed up but smells just like momdad. Eyes peeled for nanners later, but so far so good. Thanks again for starting this. NS

Thanks for your post, who knows how many grows like these we will see? I got interested from the few results I had seen posted. A lot of non hermies seem to spring from hermies.
Now I do see there are cases where the hermie trait will dominate. Other times, not so much. From my minimal genetics knowledge, I'd be skeptical as calling the hermie trait being a 'dominant' type of trait. It seems to be more complicated than that.

Claude Hopper · Jul 4, 2011

Thanks for the thread and work documenting your results.

supermanlives · Jul 21, 2011

glad it worked out for ya .we know very little about hermies as far as i am concerned. i have just had 2 male sour bubble plants turn herm and pollinate themselves. i will be trying those seeds for sure

igrowone · Jul 21, 2011

thread still kicking, so i'll mention how it smokes

in short, as good as any of the breeder seeds i've tried so far
it strongly resembled the parent in appearance, almost clone close
smell was somewhat different, much lower than parent, but vaguely similar
after 3 weeks of cure, still low odor with a bit of the dryer sheet odor
but the taste is very good, much better than the parent
some kind of fruit peel, maybe some tangerine in there
it tastes nothing like it smells, which is bit mysterious to me

i had been using cfl's that were past their prime, so yields weren't high
about 3/4 of a zip, which means i really need another female
so another hermie(aka cheap feminized) seed has been sprouted, about 500 left to go

Treetops · Jul 27, 2011

igrowone
Nice work...helps us rookies, when something like this happens to us...Had a NorCal Daddy's Girl go hermie was told its a first for it...Havent had time to throw them down yet, but I will..Got lots of seeds of her/it to try...
Thanks....
Peace
Treetops

igrowone · Aug 7, 2011

day 19

day 19

TreeTops, glad to give you some hope, if you do try them, feel free to post results here
which brings me to the current 'experiment'
the 2nd run, and something more sativa(maybe)
the early leaves were more indica, but the plant width and # of nodes say sativa
it's still a mystery, but if stable like the last try, then it's all good

igrowone · Aug 15, 2011

1 week of flower

1 week of flower

i think the genetics of the plant are addicting
much enjoying in seeing some traits pop out, and some new ones
this run looks like an interesting mix of sativa/indica
looking very sativa leaf wise, but very compact like an indica
but is it stable? there's the rub

igrowone · Sep 4, 2011

day 47

day 47

the 2nd run of this S1 hermie seed
1st time was a hermie free grow
back to earth for the 2nd seed, hermied just like the parent
i was prepared this time(kind of), been plucking roosters everyday
bud looks mostly unfertilized, but a few seeds is acceptable
one observation, the scent of this plant is very similar to parent, are the 2 traits linked?
i doubt there is an answer, but was worth putting out there

EcstaticErratic · Sep 8, 2011

Cool thread, so you flowered and are done with the first seed you grew out..
and germed another one? but this time... herms.

:chin:

interesting... I have a strain thats like that.. maybe 1 seed every QP
she hermied and pollinated another strain of WW
so I grew that seed out CP x WW and she was a beast grew fast, and without nutrients... no male flowers... but was very very prone to Powdery Mildew didn't make it to flower.. yet.

Its all a dice roll, but chances are it should be 75% just like the parent plant right from hermied self pollinated seeds?

BlueGrassToker · Sep 8, 2011

Hermaphroditic tendencies in cannabis are controlled by the genes of the parental plants. The severity of how much a plant shows intersex, aka hermaphrodite, is dependent on how dominant the trait is in each parent and how the genetic map shakes out during the recombination of the parental genes during meiosis.

A mother plant may well display the hermie trait, but it may be that the trait is held in it's genetic map in latent fashion. In other words, the rest of that particular mother plants siblings may not display the trait at all...because they all hold the trait as a latent trait.
Similarly, a mother plant may well not show any hermie at all....however it could hold the hermie gene in dominance and we simply don't see it with that single plant. It's sibling seeds may well produce a majority of plants that display hermie.

Without knowing the dominance, or latency, of a particular trait in each individual parent plant (such as the intersex trait), there is no way we can simply assign a percentage of what will be produced in a cross.

Assuming the B is the hermie trait....with "B" dominant and "b" latent....
aB x AB cross will produce a higher percentage of hermie trait progeny than say a Ab x ab cross.

As a basic rule of thumb, an F1 cross will produce plants in a 1:3:1 ratio. 1 like mom, 1 like dad, and 3 being a mixture of the two. Use the above info coupled with this to figure a guestimation.

a self pollinated F1, what might pop out?

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