The Coughie House

Coughie · Sep 29, 2016

Coughie said:
I've actually been sitting here, for the first time, after swearing I wouldn't...
I've been considering learning about and undertaking the idea of Selfing her..

Maybe some S1's would show me something more like what her mother was..

But I dont want to derail my 'project' as it is - I still want to make a heady-version of a Bubba-esque sort of line.. Something 'new', in combination anyway..

That's what the momma was, something-Bubba.. almost entirely indica
Two-toke Sleeper

I'm copying a respected approach to this Selfing idea, in hopes of stimulating some more thoughts and conversation;

With permission:

dank.frank said:
It's to intentionally bottleneck plants to reduce variation within each filial generation, so you have some aspect of control what you are reintroducing into the next generation. This breeds towards single phenotype stability.

****edit****

Each generation between backcrosses should be isolating something specific. Each time you self, you are removing gene traits and limiting variation, but also, "locking in" a single individual trait. The purpose of the backcrossing is to restore the variability of the original parent.

Example of something easy to grasp, using a single plant selection, to stabilize towards a single desired phenotype.

Say our goal, is to make a silly frosty OG. So we make -

F1 - OG x Deep Chunk

We want silly resin, but we want an OG type plant, so our F1 selection, is a single lanky, Piney OG pheno from 100 plants. Looks 80% OG with much more resin. Yields less. Poor calyx to leaf ratio - but the most frosty of the 100 plants that still grew like we expect an OG to grow.

We take this female to the same OG mom..

BC1 -OG x (OG x DC)

Now we seek an individual plant that again most fits our desired outcome. We sort 100 seeds - and find our OG has really gotten lost in the Bx1 but our resin is through the roof.

We select from the 100 plants, 5, that best fit our desired outcome - the most OG looking of the batch, with the most resin.

***This is where people mes up. They try and select plants that "have it all" when you should be selecting for individual traits.***

Because we are working with poly-hybrids and we want to maximize our path to stability, we want to take those 5 plants and self them, to see exactly how much diversity each of the 5 contain within themselves.

BC1 - A - 100 s1 seeds
BC1 - B - 100 s1 seeds
BC1 - C - 100 s1 seeds
BC1 - D - 100 s1 seeds
BC1 - E - 100 s1 seeds

Now, all you are looking for in these plants, is out of 100, what percentage have extreme resin output, even if this breeds you away from your OG type box.

Let's say, BC1 - D wins and had 40% plants that showed extreme resin output. (every other factor being irrelevant) You select the 5 best of that 40%, to make your S2 lines with.

BC1-D-A - 100 s2 seeds
BC1-D-B - 100 s2 seeds
BC1-D-C - 100 s2 seeds
BC1-D-D - 100 s2 seeds
BC1-D-E - 100 s2 seeds

BC1-D-A performs best with about 60% of the offspring showing extreme resin production. You select the 5 best from the 60% and self them to make your S3 lines to sort.

You do this until you hit a point of satisfaction in regards to stability for the single isolated trait.

So to follow the previous outline, assume this was achieved by S4. A plant in the S4 generation, when selfed, showed it's offspring (S5) to be 90% high resin content. Let's call this satisfactory.

***This S4 plant is your parent because it passes the desired trait forward. NOT some further random plant from the S5 line, unless of course, you want further stability, pick the best 5, sort 100 s6 each, find one to be 95%...and use the S5 as the parent instead.

The point being, don't use a plant in a backcross from an untested generation even if you believe it is a refined improvement, until you have actually tested it's selfed generation to see if it will actually perform as desired.***

BC2 - OG x S4

The reason you make this backcross is to reintroduce your P1 OG female to restore traits that were lost in the selfing process while isolating a single trait.

You sort 100 BC2 seeds and you KNOW any plant worth selecting should have the high resin content you desire, but now you want to select plants that also have high yield. So now, you select 5 plants that have the high yield, that also maintain high resin content...and you self those 5, again checking only to see which plant is going to pass BOTH traits on to the next filial generation with the greatest consistency....

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

It is very time consuming, but if done right, you can theoretically build a very good, truly stable cannabis strain.

TomHill said once you start hitting F5 and F6 though, lots of latent gene traits begin to resurface, without cause or reason. I can not personally speak to this. I can however say - if you are trying to improve your personal stock via single plant selections, this method will work.

dank.Frank

I only have the single plant to work with, but wish to find and isolate phenotypes leaning more towards Coughie's mother than Coughie's personal expression...

I'm hoping there's enough of her mom in there, that I can find it.

rykus · Sep 29, 2016

If I was trying to get a less bubba esque result and wanted more to explore the coughie side I would maybe instead of crossing both crosses to the bubba cut, maybe cross the less desirable cross to the bubba to get the taste and strength and the back cross that tithe other cross to stay mostly coughie based...

I'm make nug some Coffee Cake bx3 seeds I want to send to the server fund, going to pollinate some flowers this week so coup,e months off but is sat dominant and very dry. Frosty, and as the name suggests very dirt earth coffee taste...

Cheers and good luck! Love these projects!

ipot · Sep 29, 2016

this is interesting. coughie looks like a nice plant. I think you should self it.

Coughie · Oct 1, 2016

ipot said:
this is interesting. coughie looks like a nice plant. I think you should self it.

rykus said:
If I was trying to get a less bubba esque result and wanted more to explore the coughie side I would maybe instead of crossing both crosses to the bubba cut, maybe cross the less desirable cross to the bubba to get the taste and strength and the back cross that tithe other cross to stay mostly coughie based...

I'm make nug some Coffee Cake bx3 seeds I want to send to the server fund, going to pollinate some flowers this week so coup,e months off but is sat dominant and very dry. Frosty, and as the name suggests very dirt earth coffee taste...

Cheers and good luck! Love these projects!

Thanks for the kind words folks, it's nice to know there's some support for the crazy-ass ideas that my brain cooks up, and some enthusiasm to help me see it through.

I see what you're saying rykus, and that's an interesting take on it, for sure.. I think selfing Coughie herself might give me a better idea on how heavy I'd want to aim to keep her influence in the larger-cross..

Whether I'd want to dust both (Coughie x NL5Haze) & (Coughie x Velvet Rush) with Bubba pollen; or dust one of them with Bubba pollen and put [(Coughie x NL5H-or-VR) x Bubba] on the other of the two..

I can see that depending on the outcome of the selfing process, and how those females expressed themselves. I have no idea what is or isn't laying dormant or recessive within Coughie's (the cut) genetics. I only know the bag that I smoked and this plant that I have.

unregistered190 · Oct 2, 2016

Nice, gonna follow along :tiphat:

Coughie · Oct 2, 2016

unregistered190 said:
Nice, gonna follow along

Glad to have ya along for the ride!

So the Blue Mystic x Velvet Rush were a bust,
Too old, I think

A bunch of them sprouted, but most of the ones that managed to shake off the seed coats, ended up growing quite mutated... Roughly one-third of them were terminal - they produced cotyledons and never grew past that. No true leaves at all.

Going to call it, on those.
Trying to figure out my next step.

There's the Gypsy Nirvana Nepalese that are old too, but I dont want to run frustration after frustration... But they need popped, to see...

I dont really want to spend the time popping the Malawi or the Panama right now

And I might have to use the Jarilla - possibly descending from Limon Verde? - in my breeding scheme if I cant find any other Mexicans..

So now I'm staring at this drawing board..

Coughie · Oct 2, 2016

Well, I'm a glutton for punishment..

Wish me luck!

blue_tick · Oct 2, 2016

Coughie said:
Well, I'm a glutton for punishment..

View Image

Wish me luck!

i'll sit in to check these out for sure. :lurk:

Coughie · Oct 2, 2016

flboy said:
i'll sit in to check these out for sure.

Hey man, glad to have ya!
Stick around a while, this is only the beginning~

Lots of landraces to come,
As well as some other special genetics that've been mentioned previously in this thread

A lot going on 'round these parts~

Kalbhairav · Oct 2, 2016

Nice coughie,

I'm a big fan of Nepalese. Got a Nepalese Jam going at the moment. Also have two packs of the original CBG Nepalese Highland as well.. Hooe these do well for you.

Coughie · Oct 2, 2016

Oh man, I wish I could have scored the Nepalese Highland,
I ended up with these instead - very little information on them.

Even Gypsy isn't really sure - via PM - if they're from Ingemar or from another batch of Nepalese seed he picked up in Kathmandu.. I know there a couple other folks on the forum who have these seeds as well, but I haven't heard of any of them cracking them open..

Relatively uncharted waters, here...

Thanks for coming along for the ride~!

blue_tick · Oct 2, 2016

sometimes that is where you find the gems man. but once you show them that's when all come outta the word work and everybody that has them will be popping like crazy

peace

Coughie · Oct 2, 2016

Lol yeah that's kind of what I figured as well,
And these seeds could be as from as far back as 2006-2008
So they need popped regardless, they're not going to make it much longer

On the plus side, about 3/30 sank immediately upon putting them in a wine glass of water
They'll stay there for 24-36hrs before I plant them directly into soil

I never put seeds anywhere near dioxin-laced paper towels; just water to soil, or if they're fresh, straight to soil.

Will have some more pictures once their little faces start poking out of the dirt

blue_tick · Oct 2, 2016

be here passing good vibes for those rascals to pop out. love to see what happens when they make an appearance LOL. might be like pulling your pecker out in a whore house or fly's on a big pile lol

Coughie · Oct 3, 2016

All 30 sank.
They'll be in the dirt as soon as I see a few tails
Tonight or tomorrow, hopefully.

Seeing how many I get before I get anything else wet, but I'm leaning towards popping this Durban Bubble x Velvet Rush ..
Sure to be some soaring sativa headiness in them-there beans!

Coughie · Oct 8, 2016

Tails never showed, for anyone wondering
They might pop for someone with more time, who goes through all the "old seed" steps, but quite honestly, with the little information on them, and as busy as I've been lately, I just 'tried them' and let it be what it was gonna be..

And it's gonna be, a'moving on,
Got a few things wet:

(7) Durban Bubble x Velvet Rush

(10) Seedsman's Cheese fem
(5) Seedsman's Blueberry fem
(3) Seedsman's White Widow fem
(2) Seedsman's Nev Haze fem

Thanks Seedsman, J_TricH,
Won the Weekly & Monthly, chose Cheese x2 & Blueberry x1
And they sent the Widow and Nev Haze freebies

The Durban Bubble x Velvet Rush is a cross I tossed together recently

I still have the ~5 Blue Mystic x Velvet Rush that popped, and trying to get them to outgrow the mutations, looks like I might get 3-4 of the 5 to pull through..

Things are about to get interesting around 'ere~!

unregistered190 · Oct 8, 2016

Have you ran Seedsman's genetics before? The contest each month is a neat idea.

blue_tick · Oct 8, 2016

damn brother i was hoping for those to pop out for you. sounds like you have a good back up plan anyway.

i'll be checking out the new list you post as i need to make a decision to what i will want from seedsman. thinking early durban or skunk 1

Coughie · Oct 8, 2016

unregistered190 said:
Have you ran Seedsman's genetics before? The contest each month is a neat idea.

I've popped some Seedsman freebies before... Sleestack x Skunk #1, and this feminized Cheese.. I was a relatively new grower, had spider mites that I didn't identify until it was full-blown and didn't have all the 'weapons'/knowledge I have now..

So I battled them off pretty good, but I'd always find them hiding out on the damned Cheese cuttings... So I tossed them, waged war, and beat the damned things..

Never got to flower the cheese out but in veg it was definitely a smelly-foot-cheese kind of thing, nothing 'fruity' about it like what a lot of 'Cheese' around these parts smells like (I think it's just a Skunk #1 that they pass off as 'cheese' for the name, around here)

Sleestack x Skunk #1 got tossed because I didn't like their structure, essentially.

So.. I have, but I haven't.
Lol

flboy said:
damn brother i was hoping for those to pop out for you. sounds like you have a good back up plan anyway.

i'll be checking out the new list you post as i need to make a decision to what i will want from seedsman. thinking early durban or skunk 1

Yeah I was hoping they'd pop too but I have more than enough to go through that losing this one wont necessarily slow me down.. A couple other specific ones might make me cry, but I should get to them before they're too old..

I heard a few things about RSC Lebanese declining in germination rates though, so I'll need to get to those soon.

I'm a bit of a finicky grower when it's come to selections, so we'll see how many of these fem's make the cut.. Cheese was a decent grower the first time around, lovely structure and strong aromas, so I wanted to win that round in particular, to give it another chance..

Didn't expect to win the Monthly (or the weekly either, but put my best foot forward there) so when I got to choose another two packs, I couldn't help getting another Cheese and then the Blueberry was just to fill the slot

For anyone curious about the Durban Bubble x Velvet Rush..

Durban Bubble herself is cutting of a cross between Durban Poison x Blue Moon Rocks; she puts off some serious weight, requires staking, doesn't stretch much in flower, and is limited during the vegetation period by the amount of root space you give it... her massive roots, do indeed, lead to massive fruits.

Velvet Rush is... well, Velvet Rush.... Highland Blue Thai, maybe HBT x Afghani, not really sure..

Both of them are rather cerebral, so the combination should be sending minds to the stratosphere.

With the Blue Mystic x Velvet Rush... I've read that "it grows like Blue Mystic and smokes like Velvet Rush"
So it's rather cerebral as well... Blue leaves, purple flowers, decent yield..
Don't know much more about it..

I've been thinking about crossing the two;

(DB x VR) & (BM x VR)

Not sure which way, but.. somehow, possibly..

See if I can get the large roots, large flowers/high yield, cerebral smoke, extend the stretch and find some vegetative vigor, the blue leaves and maybe even the purple coloration to the flowers.. Asking a lot, but, maybe..

Coughie · Oct 12, 2016

Planted:

(7) Durban Bubble x Velvet Rush

(6) Seedsman Cheese fem
(5) Seedsman Blueberry fem

The White Widow & Nev Haze popped too..
But I'm just not a big fem-fan, they didn't make the dirt..

Have both NL5Haze & Blue Orca Haze anywho
And White Widow.. meh..

Those 18 seeds join the (5) Blue Mystic x Velvet Rush, (5) [Mazar/Guerrero x Blue Mystic/Velvet Rush] & a solo [The One x The Black/NL5H] seedlings..

Actually planted them two days ago, a day after soaking,
Checked on them today, most tap roots seem to be digging down,
Should have heads popping in a day or two~

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