Scarhole's root pruning sex reversal method for fem seeds

SCARHOLE's method for reversing your females for fem seeds via root pruning.

Found out how escobar *an Dr Greenthumbs do their root sex reversing *for fem works.

Searched for this information for yrs an just found gold.


It's not really mine, lol. I haven't even tried it (yet)

But I am taking credit for being the first to share how this is done on all the grow forums.

Ya heard it here first
I share the wealth an stay in health!
Fuckn breeders an their secrets? Lol
I asked what escobar an drgt what they did an they wouldn't talk.

I may switch to root pruning from sts.
If I can get it to work.
Whoooooooot





http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24414015/


When the shoots of young hemp (Cannabis sativa L.) plants were cut off the roots, cultured as cuttings, and regenerating (adventitious) roots were removed as soon as appearing, ca. 80-90% of the plants became male (had staminate flowers) whereas if the roots were allowed to develop a similar percentage became female (pistillate flowers). Treatment of de-rooted cuttings with 6-benzylaminopurine (15 mg/l) restored the percent of female plants to ca. 80. It is suggested that the root system plays an essential role in sex expression in hemp and that this role is related to cytokinin synthesis in the root.




The author first developed this with spinach...*




7-d-old plantlets of spinach (Spinacia oleracea L.) were immersed with their roots for 24 h in 25 mg/l gibberellic acid (GA3), or 15 mg/l 6-benzylaminopurine (6-BAP), or 15 mg/l indole-3-acetic acid (IAA), or 10 mg/l abscisic acid (ABA) and subsequently grown on long (18-h) days, the ratio of plants with male and female flowers, which in the controls was almost 1:1 (48 and 52%, respectively), was greatly altered. The treatments with 6-BAP, IAA and ABA raised the percentage of female plants to 88, 76 and 71%, respectively; the GA3 treatment increased the percent of male plants to 79%. When young, vegetative spinach plants (3 visible leaves) grown in 18-h days were cut a the root neck, and the shoots grown with their bases in nutrient solution, with adventitious roots either being allowed to develop or being systematically removed, 85% of the plants without roots became males, 85% of those with roots became females. But if the cut shoots were first, for 28 h, placed in a 15-mg/l 6-BAP solution and then grown in the absence of roots, the percent of female plants was restored to 84. These results fully agree with those obtained previously with hemp, namely, that plant growth regulators exert a regulating effect on the sex expression of dioecious plants when applied through the roots in early stages of development; that the root system plays an important role in determining the sex of these plants, that this role of the roots is associated with the synthesis of cytokinins in them. Dioecious short- and long-day plants do not differ in these respects.



Amazing!
Who wants to try it?
As a get more information I'll update you....

I want to start with a fem seed an see if pruning the hell out of her or a cutting an fuck with the roots early on see if I get a male? Will it make fem Seeds if I succeed?

Sounds like the perfect way of passing on hermie susceptibility with plants that might turn soon as they fill their pots imo.
Anything that quick n easy to "reverse" isn't worth my time ime.
Weak gear begets weak gear.
If you managed to "force" something to be male (been a couple of claims to being possible but I've never seen it in real world application yet) before it sexed than it'd just be a male, nothing "fem'd" or "reversed" about it.

cheers,...............................................gps

Gram Paw smurf said:

Sounds like the perfect way of passing on hermie susceptibility with plants that might turn soon as they fill their pots imo.
Anything that quick n easy to "reverse" isn't worth my time ime.
Weak gear begets weak gear.
If you managed to "force" something to be male (been a couple of claims to being possible but I've never seen it in real world application yet) before it sexed than it'd just be a male, nothing "fem'd" or "reversed" about it.

cheers,...............................................gps

Click to expand...

If you use this method you are selecting intersex plants for your pollen source. Not very smart. Use STS but first confirm the female clone will not show male flowers with any stress by the environment, because if they do they are intersex. Intersex begets intersex, if that is what you want.
-SamS

Sam, are there any advantages to using "intersex" plants? Also, could you define the term clearly? Thanks

An intersex plant is male or female, but makes flowers of the opposite sex, lots or a few.
I know of no advantage, if I want the genes I try and remove the intersex traits first by breeding and selection, or just kill it if I can't.
-SamS

G`day Scar

I have known this tech for some time .
Esko learnt it from Soma ...
The person who told me , asked me not to make it public . But the cat is out of the bag now .

I disregarded it on the same basis that Sam S described . If it turns that way its prolly an intersex that only shows under the root pruning stress .

You are very successful with the STS . I wouldn`t disregard that as yet .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

Good to see to Elmer.

First I ask do you all Think all fems are herm?
This is different than random stress making a herman an hormone manipulation.

A Inter sex trait that appears randomly is no good.
I want to see if can get a female plant to become male For fem pollen - only when root pruning the first weeks- .
Obviously the prodgeny must be stable when stress tested . (Unless I root prune the first weeks of life.)

Scientifically, root pruning has nothing to do with intersex traits. Certainly, an 'intersex' susceptible plant will more readily revert sex upon root pruning than a 'stable' sex.

Be that as it may, root pruning is not a form of stress to induce sex reversal but actually works quite similar to STS.
Roots and only roots build cytokinin, they also build strigolactones which in turn increase auxins and influences their transport. Removing the roots will completely deprive plants from cytokinins, partially from strigolactone, and indirectly lower the auxin content and alter its distribution. This causes an imbalance in hormone homoeostasis in favour of gibberellins. The latter are the main 'male' hormone whereas cytokinins and auxins are linked to 'femaleness' (BTW auxin content in hemp is up to 30 fold higher in females then males). It's common knowledge that treatment with GA leads to female->male sex reversal and consequently pruning roots is the same, just 'more natural' .
STS on the other hand, according to the latest findings, blocks copper channels (and does not inhibit ethylene production per se nor directly blocks ethylene perception). Anyway, a lack of copper (needed for ethylene synthesis) leads to a lower ethylene production. Ethylene is at least one reason why auxins cause 'femaleness' (remember, auxins lead to increased ethylene production) and ethylene acts, at least in this regard, as GA antagonist. Again, a shift in hormonal equilibrium causes sex reversal. Consequently, one would have to call STS a form of nutrient (copper) starvation. By definition, nutrient starvation is also a form of stress. Hence, STS is stress induced sex reversal and will select for intersex plants . That last sentence, ICMag users know that by experience, seems not true although I know many who think it is.
Bottom line is: If you 'believe' STS a safe method, then root pruning is so too. If you don't like STS, don't prune roots either.

So it isn't your info and you haven't tried it but it's "Scarhole's method"

interesting

You have a point JD.
Unlike me, that boy knows about good marketing and salesmanship .

I wonder if he read the whole article or just the abstract...

I thought dr gt let the plants keep flowering an extra month or whatever until there were nanners

interesting. i might try this.

for making S1s of an elite clone then you already know the value of the phenotype - and if it does have intersex traits then they will have been judged as acceptable given the other outstanding traits that made it an elite

"Wish you luck Scarhole and thanx for mading thread about this as i asking my self long time now can be possible or not.

*

I have writen words from E$kobar when he was explaining this method.

*

1.Where is developing flowering hormon in plant? * *answer- in tips of a root

*

2.In what time of flowering he develops? * answer- Between 7-21 days of flowering time

*

3.What will happend if we cut those root tips in that time? *answer -If we cutt those root tips we will change female to male

*

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * and then we can use this pollen for creating fems.

*

*

That is what i have writen down from E$kobar when he was explain how to do it,

but didnt say all...or maybe he is...glad you will check this claims.

*

*

*

All the best

*

DS

I am curious OO, have you used STS or root pruning to make females produce male flowers? How many times have you used STS on Cannabis? Is your advice from your personal experience or just what you have read someplace?
If the first answer is yes, have you grown out large numbers of the progeny made from root pruning stressed females that made pollen?
Were they more intersexed? I have found so.
I have pre-tested female clones for intersex using all kinds of environmental stresses, root pruning included, and I have found any that show male flowers are much more likely to have progeny with the same. Why is that? While with STS if I pretest the female clones with every environmental stress, and do not use any females that do express male flowers, and use the ones that don't I do not get intersex progeny, why is that? As far as I know I was the first to use STS in the Cannabis counter culture, years before any others started selling all female seeds, I never sold any all female seeds I only used them in breeding programs for single Cannabinoid varieties, we had no intersex progeny, if we screened the plants used for intersex traits with environmental stress, before using them in a STS program..
To me STS and environmental stress are not "quite similar". Certainly not in results.
You have ok logic but the conclusions are not correct in my experience. What is your experience?
-SamS

Only Ornamental said:

Scientifically, root pruning has nothing to do with intersex traits. Certainly, an 'intersex' susceptible plant will more readily revert sex upon root pruning than a 'stable' sex.

Be that as it may, root pruning is not a form of stress to induce sex reversal but actually works quite similar to STS.
Roots and only roots build cytokinin, they also build strigolactones which in turn increase auxins and influences their transport. Removing the roots will completely deprive plants from cytokinins, partially from strigolactone, and indirectly lower the auxin content and alter its distribution. This causes an imbalance in hormone homoeostasis in favour of gibberellins. The latter are the main 'male' hormone whereas cytokinins and auxins are linked to 'femaleness' (BTW auxin content in hemp is up to 30 fold higher in females then males). It's common knowledge that treatment with GA leads to female->male sex reversal and consequently pruning roots is the same, just 'more natural' .
STS on the other hand, according to the latest findings, blocks copper channels (and does not inhibit ethylene production per se nor directly blocks ethylene perception). Anyway, a lack of copper (needed for ethylene synthesis) leads to a lower ethylene production. Ethylene is at least one reason why auxins cause 'femaleness' (remember, auxins lead to increased ethylene production) and ethylene acts, at least in this regard, as GA antagonist. Again, a shift in hormonal equilibrium causes sex reversal. Consequently, one would have to call STS a form of nutrient (copper) starvation. By definition, nutrient starvation is also a form of stress. Hence, STS is stress induced sex reversal and will select for intersex plants . That last sentence, ICMag users know that by experience, seems not true although I know many who think it is.
Bottom line is: If you 'believe' STS a safe method, then root pruning is so too. If you don't like STS, don't prune roots either.

Click to expand...

Please do this and report the results, first stress test and find a female clone or better clones that does not stress and make male flowers, then prune the roots and make seeds, be sure and stress test both of the female clones used to make the seeds, find any intersex plants when you grow the seeds?
No all fems are not intersex, if made correctly.
-SamS

scarhole2 said:

Good to see to Elmer.

First I ask do you all Think all fems are herm?
This is different than random stress making a herman an hormone manipulation.

A Inter sex trait that appears randomly is no good.
I want to see if can get a female plant to become male For fem pollen - only when root pruning the first weeks- .
Obviously the prodgeny must be stable when stress tested . (Unless I root prune the first weeks of life.)

Click to expand...

Sam, you should know by now that my practical experience is limited. I don't understand why you keep on poking at that and keep repeating how many plants you grew and that you've been the first to this and that...
Now to the statement: I did not give an advice, I merely summarised the scientific background so people can understand why something happens and start thinking for themselves.
Try to get down from your high horse and get over your ego. I'm not your competitor, this is not a race, and it's not about being better than the other. You grow big numbers, you get practical experience, and I contribute science, what's so bad about that? Think about it as mutual supplementation in the name of public benefit .

In order to make you feel good again: I used silver on a few plants and that's that. Happy? Does that now change the molecular mechanism by which silver acts? No, it doesn't.

We still don't know how cannabis does it to become intersex nor what factors (e.g. genes, epigenetics) contribute, right?
Could you give me a rational explanation (and not one of those 'I grew thousands of plants, I saw it with my own eyes, just believe me)?

Then again: I haven't said that intersex is not inheritable, quite the opposite. You're right, one should pre-test (I have never said otherwise) and maybe not use susceptible plants. But how does that link to the rest?

What if you took several clones from one single plant with stable sex expression, reverse one with STS, one with root pruning, one with GA, and others with several forms of stress (the latter should not work, though): Will one treatment result in more 'hermies' in the offspring than the others? THAT is the question, not how many 'hermies' you get when reversing a bunch of unknown individuals.

Regarding my conclusion: I wrote 'BELIEVE', nothing about facts or experience . You may be right, the crowd out there is a horde of brainless zombies and unable to think for themselves and hence needs spoon-feeding. I'm very bad at that and therefore don't address this part of the community but the intelligent ones who might also get hints and read between the lines.

EDIT: Sorry Sam, you have a way to make me go bonkers from time to time. Hopefully, there are no hard feelings and we can keep it civilised (with the obligatory poke in the eye and a handful of salt in old wounds now and then) .

Sam_Skunkman said:

I am curious OO, have you used STS or root pruning to make females produce male flowers? How many times have you used STS on Cannabis? Is your advice from your personal experience or just what you have read someplace?
If the first answer is yes, have you grown out large numbers of the progeny made from root pruning stressed females that made pollen?
Were they more intersexed? I have found so.
I have pre-tested female clones for intersex using all kinds of environmental stresses, root pruning included, and I have found any that show male flowers are much more likely to have progeny with the same. Why is that? While with STS if I pretest the female clones with every environmental stress, and do not use any females that do express male flowers, and use the ones that don't I do not get intersex progeny, why is that? As far as I know I was the first to use STS in the Cannabis counter culture, years before any others started selling all female seeds, I never sold any all female seeds I only used them in breeding programs for single Cannabinoid varieties, we had no intersex progeny, if we screened the plants used for intersex traits with environmental stress, before using them in a STS program..
To me STS and environmental stress are not "quite similar". Certainly not in results.
You have ok logic but the conclusions are not correct in my experience. What is your experience?
-SamS

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Scarhole, sounds interesting. I'll give it a go. Cytokinins for the ladies gibberllins for the dudes.

Forgot to mention:
Several mainly German speaking breeders such as Serious and Alpine Seeds believe that treating plants with STS WILL induce hermaphroditism in cannabis. This, as for example Simon points out, is based on vast experience (well, likely millions of plants less than you Sam) and due to heavy metal intoxication, disturbed hormonal homoeostasis, and epigenetic changes which ultimately lead to genetic aberrations...
In contrary, 'natural' means of sex reversal won't show this behaviour.
Whom should we trust and who is actually right?
I guess (read GUESS) too, like you point out repeatedly, that it mostly comes down to proper parent selection.

I agree with only ornamental
I have used StS for 3-4 yrs, probably 4 batches of fem seed per yr.
Stared as a test to see if fems are all realy unstable.
All the fem s have have grown have been stable as hell.
Not one herman from them.
And no complaints on the 1000s of seeds I shared.

Sts Dosent even stress a plant or harm it @ a 1:1 ratio applied daily, 10x stronger 7x more applications then the Clarke's method. Sts reverses based on hormones not stress.
As long as a herm dosent pollute your breeding no worries.

But that's an issue in every reg breeding project also...