Deficiencies with high PPMs

Hi...


And here we are again...

Like every round I have difficult times...



Last few rounds I manage how to make big healthy plants/roots in rockwool slabs in veg.


So I went to bigger space with bigger reflectors and bigger plants to push my limits.


Good to know is I make really healthy plants and roots in veg with 500ppm 6x daily with huge runoff I was recirculate 30gallon rez 10 days replace at max.

I recirculate 30gallon rez for first two weeks in flower with 650-700ppms the deficienties show up very rapidly so I push to 800 at the starting week 3... the defs were worse...So I start use pure R/O without tap water for more space for nutrients.

Im at 1100ppm with 850-1000ppm runoff at week 4 it depend on radiation. And didnt saw much improve with 1000ppm yet... Few plants looks great in lower radiation places but majority have huge defs. This is new for me Im seriously worried I was thinking about lockout or wrong badge of nutrients.
I make my best so I stop recirculating rez and use 10% runoff like the pros with R/O 1000ppm.

I think I should use 1000 ppm at week 2... and I guess I wouldnt see so much yellow leafs.
The question is how much PPM I should use now.


pH system in my hands is not ideal but I grow big nice frosty buds with it in the past.


In veg and stretch phase Im around 6.4pH
In bloom Im at 5.5 pH in slabs... the rez pH the whole season is at 6.0pH ... plants are eating and chasing pH isnt worthy... they are happier with stable pH rather when I was chasing perfect point and stress them with unstable pH.


The question for you guys Is....



Have I really that hungry plants or I missing something? I really try to be a good grower and I have hard time to push PPMs so high im worried about roots and nute burn!! Roots are the hearth of the plant! and I know I can have still high yield but with reasonable PPMs.



Typical N def are all over the plants and at the top I can see P def.. purple leafs like in the flush phase! damn with 1000ppm... is It possible? Truth is I never have so many big plants and so good enviroment.




Im almost sure its not lockout and nutrients should be normal.

I always thought anything above 1.5 EC is too much.

But that typical N def with 1.8 EC is overhelming they just wanna more food.

General EC feed strength guidelines

• Propagation: 0.5-1.5 EC or 320-960 PPM
• Underfed Mature Plant: 1.5-2.0 EC or 960-1,300 PPM
• Optimal Range for Mature Plant: 2.0-3.6 EC or 960-2,300 PPM
• Too Much: Above 3.6 EC or 2,300 PPM
• Plant Damage: Occurs at or above 5.0 EC or 3,200 PPM

Could you use a scale other than PPM? We can't measure ppm, we measure conductivity and some meter then convert this to ppm. Unfortunately this conversion math isn't set in stone. Some use a factor of 500 while others use 700. Almost 50% more. So hearing someone talk in ppm isn't useful

yup, figure out your EC conversion based on your brand of TDS meter. There are many conversion charts online.


Also, let everyone know what nutrients you are feeding with.

Sorry for that. I use EC many years as main scale but I find myself more comfortable with ppms.


I use 0.5 conversion so 1000ppm is 2.0 EC for me.

What nutrient line are you using?

Lower leaves (older leaves) show symptoms first, since the plant will move nitrogen from older tissues to more important younger ones. Those leaves are mostly on top and very few and sparse. A light green fade will show up over many leaves at a time with a Nitrogen deficiency. Can you post a photo of the bottom of the plants?

I think you meter may be broken or calibrated incorrectly. They can't be getting that much feed. As an example of the plants range, the CF Truncheon can't even measure past ec3.6 and it was only extended to 3.6 after CO2 users complained they needed a couple of lights to show how far over they went if they missed the actual level they wanted. Many years ago it was said that ec2.73 was the maximum we would ever need. Personally I find anything over 2.0 problematic. I look at your plants and would guess they're getting 1.3 and would add more N in the form of urea if you're still in rockwool. Perhaps a gram in each 10L.

The red can be genetic but it generally stress. N def can certainly cause it. Though a bit more P is good for pH stability and stacking some weight on. It doesn't look like it would hurt.


For now you need another ec meter or fresh bottle of calibration solution. I bet you could make some with ro and salt to simply prove the meter rather than calibrate it exactly.
Edit: yes here we go, 3.6g of table salt in a gallon is 1000ppm someone claims. Add some fudge factor because who knows what a gallon really is, and you get 0.4g in 450ml to get within 20% of 1000ppm at least (hopefully closer)

Simple solution:

Stop overfeeding.

Test your runoff.. that's what going to tell you whats going on . If your PPM or EC is too high just adjust with PH corrected water

BlackBart said:

Test your runoff.. that's what going to tell you whats going on . If your PPM or EC is too high just adjust with PH corrected water

Click to expand...

Exactly

I think I have to start again. I thought the edited in bullet points were what this grow is doing but it seems it's off the net. It's also insane. Does anybody here actually feed a plant at least 2.0 ? Anybody...anywhere...

N is only really pushed out by K if we follow the idea it's over fed, but excess K grows plants like hardwood. I'm not seeing it.

I see no mention of when the feed is switched from grow to bloom. Just when the ppm's change. I suspect the feed is changed on day 1 of 12/12 rather than about 3 weeks in.

I put my EC meter into calibrating solution it reads it right...

It read right R/O with 0.01 PPM
It read right tap water...
Even EC meter for 10 bucks hit about 100ppm the same.


Run off is 5.5 - 6.5 depend on slab and how huge plants are on it.
EC runoff 1.7-1.8 feeding 2.2 EC


Everything told me im underfeeding.



This stem last time was about 7.5oz ... 2.0 EC and the defs were better but similar but only two big girls were on slab.. and in the whole system they were alone that big.

I have 4 this big on slab right now and they are starving!
We should realize Im feeding FOUR huge root systems in one slab?! Its about 4 gallons if full saturated.


Im at week 4 on grow ratio not even bloom but I should go 50/50 or full bloom the pH drop on few slabs occurs already.


The yellowing startsfrom bottom ... but now its everywhere. Poor girls doesent want let go this sucked up leafs I must pluck them of.


Dont get me wrong last time I grow strain together with this girls when 1.6EC was too much they were dark green and burned! And this girls was starving whole grow.. it was craziness! I totally ruined the light feeder strain.

f-e said:

I think I have to start again. I thought the edited in bullet points were what this grow is doing but it seems it's off the net. It's also insane. Does anybody here actually feed a plant at least 2.0 ? Anybody...anywhere...

N is only really pushed out by K if we follow the idea it's over fed, but excess K grows plants like hardwood. I'm not seeing it.

I see no mention of when the feed is switched from grow to bloom. Just when the ppm's change. I suspect the feed is changed on day 1 of 12/12 rather than about 3 weeks in.

Click to expand...

I follow few instagram growers from CA.

They grow in RW blocks and feed their plant way above 2.0 EC I know they have CO2 rich enviroment...



Im really stupid and missing something important or I just must push the EC.

kalopatchkid said:

What nutrient line are you using?

Click to expand...

?


I would say your way behind on P and K.

Puzzling man. The more I listen the more I realise you're not without skills to.

I found rw slabs too wet and see some of the damage that causes on a few leaves. N is usually an early sign of being to wet if the leaves are not limp, which yours are not. Hows your temperatures?

I'm still looking a a range of signs that say the feed is low. I would, yet again, check your meters. Expecting both to be calibrated on the same solution that's wrong, or something like that.

If you were under leds I would have other ideas, but you talk of shades so I guess sodium

Im on the wet side with slabs... 80-90% WC

The best plants have burned tips already.
They are in lower radiation spots they are in most drier place at slabs.. but they have biggest buds...


I think the only what can I do is change nutrients or let slabs dry way more
so I dilute rez to 1.8EC and start with lesser irrigation frequency...



I just leach whole rez to them to dilute EC in the slabs becouse EC will skyrocket with lesser water content.

what mechanism make this nutrient lockout? pH in norm... nutrients from GHE.
The nutrient profil should be O.K. I grow two weeks already with DTW.

and why in vegetative phase they grow nicely with that teoretical overwatering ... without any sign of def

Well guys I figure out the cause.




it's sad that on a forum with such a history guy always gets advice just to check his meters
no, this problem isnt basic.

I solve it but It was pain.

Brother your name is quite fitting you are talking absolute Baloni


You been here since 2012 and haven't take the time to learn to read your plants. Overfeeding and underfeeding can sometimes look similar the solution is not to try and feed more the solution is to find the imbalance in your nutrient regime.


Are you using any calcium / magnesium supplementation?

troutman said:

Simple solution:

Stop overfeeding.

Click to expand...

You sir have right I guess. I really cant read my plants after so many years. Its shame




.
I found pictures from 2013 when I was in rockwool. What I tought its massive cal/mag def was just huge nute burn...


Stupid guys have hard lives. Be kind to them. rofl

So you think it was overfeeding?