Six Ace Monsters Outdoors

The Hatter said:

You have a very good idea here, but I think the black box phase where you control their light exposure will need to continue long past the initial flowering onset and should probably only stop once the natural length of the day is roughly 12/12.



You are going to get some absolutely insane bud structures from these reveged plants once they start flowering again. They will be like big pom pom hydra buds.

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Given that my grow this year is largely an experiment, I'm looking forward to next year, trying to decide what exactly the experiment taught me this year, and what I should change next year to make the grow more successful.


We are basically on the same page in terms of the need to continue black-boxing the plants longer next year. But I'm not sold on your suggestion that I continue until the natural day/night cycle reaches 12/12.


Trouble is, the natural day and night length doesn't reach 12/12 until after the fall equinox in late October - later if you count the extra hour of twilight added by dawn and dusk.



I don't claim to be any sort of expert, but I've done a great deal of reading on the subject. I'm not certain that a 12 hour day/night length works magic outdoors like it does indoors. Several writers (mostly posters here at ICMag) have suggested that the triggers to start cannabis into flower and keep it there are substantially different outdoors. Outdoors, the plants are sensing many more parameters, like natural changes in sunlight color as fall approaches, day/night temperature fluctuations, and probably some other elements of the plant's atmosphere that we don't realize are playing a role in triggering flowering.


A simple 12/12 light schedule can't be the trigger for flowering outdoors, since the day length now is still well over 13 hours (when twilight is included.) And yet, all of the cannabis plants in my garden, both Sativa and Indica, have already been in flower for a week or two - naturally.


We share the inclination to simply extend the black-boxing next year for a longer time. While it may not be a complete answer to the theoretical questions in my mind, it IS at least, the one parameter that we can control most easily. It just keeps me at home for more evenings.



You're sure correct about the pom-pom look to the colas that are now re-vegging: they are already getting huge (and heavy!) I'm planning to build a cage around Zamaldelica today, and then remove the greenhouse structure once all her branches are well-supported. Those growing pom-poms are getting heavy, as well as huge.

They're looking lush, CowboyTed! I had a feeling, being closebyish, that the zam might react like that. I've had NepJams flower late July and be done by early September, but many of the Ace strains I've grown outdoors have started around now, then it starts getting cold at night, and that's rough on early flower. I've gotta bring mine in
Also, you could try smaller pots to initiate flower earlier, but this means smaller plants. Not much, though

It's been a while since we've seen all three of the Malawi ladies together. Here are Malawi (right) with her daughter Golden Tiger on the left, and her granddaughter Zamaldelica in the center.





The greenhouse came down this week, and the Zam and GT girls got new cages. I'm hoping that might be the end of caging, though I anticipate lots more time fastening branches to the cages to keep the branches upright as they grow heavy. I may throw a grid over the top as well, for the tall straight center stalks.


Here are Snow Moon (left) and Bangi Haze x Ethiopian just up the hill:





These two came outdoors at the same time, but the little Snow Moon was half the plant that Bangopi was, and yet Snow Moon now towers over her neighbor, and keeps pace with the Malawi Girls in the front row too.


And now a word from our sponsors . . . we couldn't keep these ladies laced in trichomes without the vital nutrients and just plain ol' good tilth brought to the garden by our good friends at Cuatro Caballos Compost. Get down to your local horse-happy neighbor and ask for Two Scoops!





That's about two years' worth of horse manure, reduced to compost. It makes up a third to a half of the soil in my garden.

Wow

Trouble is, the natural day and night length doesn't reach 12/12 until after the fall equinox in late October - later if you count the extra hour of twilight added by dawn and dusk.

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Most strains don't need to be right at 12/12 to start flowering, dropping below 14 hours triggers a lot of them. You're right about it not just being day length, it's also the days getting shorter.

The more equatorial a strain is, the shorter the day length has to be to trigger flowering. Last year I had a tropical strain that wasn't triggered to flower until the solstice, right now was when I was seeing white hairs. This year I had a tropical hermaphrodite I removed a couple weeks back that wasn't forming white hairs yet. Probably the reason everyone goes by 12/12 instead of 13/11 or 11/13, it's foolproof and you don't have to worry about equatorial types taking forever to trigger. I'm a lot further north then you so my days are over 15 hours day light which may have played a part in the late flowering trigger as well.

Really nice job this year, those plants looked great. I'm glad you learned a lot, every year I grow I learn and improve. That pile of manure made all the difference for you. Probably should have black boxed them a week or two longer, right up into September. I was doing a similar experiment with a tropical clone, forced to to flower and then planned on ditching the box on Sept. 1st but it went crazy hermie in mid August and I ditched it. In a perfect world we'd all have timers and automated setups, light dep is a lot harder to manage in reality then in theory.

therevverend said:

Most strains don't need to be right at 12/12 to start flowering, dropping below 14 hours triggers a lot of them.



. . . In a perfect world we'd all have timers and automated setups, light dep is a lot harder to manage in reality then in theory.

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As I think about how to design the experiment next year, I'm wondering whether you may have a more realistic solution here:


Why not try black boxing in July, but not at 12/12. Instead, start black-boxing in July and start at 14/10, and see if it triggers flowering. After all, it's the tropical Sativas that need the early start. If they start flowering at 14 hours, then I could continue black boxing until roughly the first of September, when the natural day/night lengths (at this latitude) will roughly match the natural day/night period.



I'm curious enough about it that I'm going to try it with a few clones, and see whether Malawi, GT and Zam will start flowering with a drop from 24 hours daylight to fourteen. If so, then I can also experiment with a drop from 16 to 14 hours daylight and see whether it triggers flowering.



That would be similar to what the plants might experience in the garden outdoors if I let the plants veg under natural sunlight until mid July, then start black-boxing them.


In a perfect world, I'll determine how to grow tropical sativas to maturity here, and then grow them outdoors in summer, while growing smaller, more manageable and shorter-flowering indicas indoors over the fall/winter/spring.


Ultimately, what I'm trying to do is to produce the most variety in my stash, while growing only the 12 plants I'm allowed under Colorado law. With a limit like that (and only six in flower at any given time) I will need to be creative to grow enough supply to serve my needs. I want to make maximum use of the summer sun, since I don't have to pay for it. Growing six sativas outdoors each summer, as large as I can grow them, seems like the best way to maximize the value of the summer sun.


Then I can diversify the stash a bit more through trading with friends and growing indicas indoors during cold weather.

Hi CowboyTed,

Sounds like a good plan! Glad to see your outdoor plants big and happy.
I would increase the feeding on the pure Malawi as she is already showing macronutrient deficiencies and she is certainly in the moment of taking more nutrients now in full flowering.

Looks like the Zamaldelica is revegging due to the increase of photoperiod after stopping the light dep as The Hatter correctly pointed out.... tropical sativas of this kind are very sensible to increase of photoperiods in flowering. If they feel they suddenly have a photoperiod increase of 2 hours more of light per day after being on 12/12 then they will start to reveg, interrupting their previous flower production.

Golden Tiger, Zamaldelica, Bangi Haze x Ethiopian, Panama and Snow Moon ...
all are looking great! Best wishes for the rest of the flowering!

2 hours or more eh dubi- thats some sage gold right there...

Hi CowboyTed,

Hope you managed to get a good harvest this outdoor season before the cold started to hit in your area. Please, keep us updated whenever you have the chance.

Cowboy, sure enjoyed your summer grow. We have much in common in repurposing what nature throws at us. Your wire mesh containers are similar to the gabion baskets I use. My go to amendments are also horse manure, leaves and compost. The weather threw a lot at you. I'm hopeful you were able to harvest a crop. Concrete reinforcing wire, when staked properly, offers strong support. These cages could be quickly tarped if you had time before a storm hit. I realize hail is tough to forecast and many times is embedded in a thunderstorm but Doppler usually picks it up. I also use a cattle panel greenhouse covered with 6 mil. plastic. The framework is anchored and has withstood 75 mph winds and medium size hail. As you know, wind driven dime size hail will leave a garden riddled. Good luck and keep pluggin along.

Howdy Ace gang!


I'm happy to revive this old thread to give you all a long-delayed harvest report.


Well, before the harvest report, we need to hear about the, um, bad weather report.


I'll start with a couple photos of the girls the best they ever looked. These photos were taken the day I caged all the plants in order to hang tarps and blankets on the oversize cages. I knew there was a storm brewing.


Lessee: back row, from left to right is Golden Tiger, then Zamaldelica, Malawi and Panama. In the front row, Bangi Haze x Ethiopian and Snow Moon.






A better angle to enjoy the Bangi Haze/Ethiopian and the Snow Moon. That Snow Moon was one very impressive plant that day. She was simply huge, far bigger than I expected from an indica.





I got them all tarped up before the storm came. The snow doesn't look bad in this photo. In fact, the snow was never much heavier than this, but we had three days straight with daytime temps below freezing, and that is just more than tarps and blankets can protect a poor cannabis plant from.

After the cold snap, the girls were not looking great. Here's Panama:





and Zamaldelica:





Bangi Haze/Ethiopian:





And Snow Moon:





All of them would have liked a couple more weeks to finish, besides Snow Moon, which was very close already. But I had little choice but to harvest them prematurely, and salvage what bud I could.


I spent the next month or so busy with the harvest, drying and curing. I didn't weigh the bud from any specific plant. Snow moon was the largest producer, by far. I did gather the best bud from the whole garden once it was dried, and weighed a total of 2.6 pounds of the largest buds from each plant. I probably had twice that much in smaller bud and popcorn.


Sadly, my harvest was diminished in quality because of the early harvest after freezing, but also as a result of wind. It doesn't take much wind knocking the branches around before all the trichomes from the exterior of the flowers are gone.


I have been slowly reducing the small and popcorn bud to oil: one batch of Qwiso for each jar of bud, and then another batch of Swiso from the same jar to capture the remaining oils. I smoke the Qwiso, and eat the Swiso That has been my primary way of using my harvest. I haven't smoked much of the bud yet, but some of it smells very nice. OlDirtyHuman's Panama cut has the single best terps, with rich lemon smells. Zamaldelica is my next favorite for its fruity terps.


None of them has a spectacular high, which doesn't surprise me, given the early harvest. But they are all nice enough, and the Snow Moon definitely makes me sleepy. It's the best quality bud, since it was nearly mature when I harvested. My God, I have and endless supply of Snow Moon kief and hash! I have enough bud to last me until next year's harvest, easy!


I have plans for next year to grow six plants inside the greenhouse. They will necessarily be smaller, but I suspect the quality will be greatly improved, since the wind won't beat them up, and they will be better protected from freezing: I can fire up a propane burner in the greenhouse during another long cold spell.