Bottomfeeding: no drain, no waste

sm0k4 · Apr 30, 2011

zen_trikester said:
Well, I'm going to take a crack at this for a bit and switch my cabinet over I think. I have a tray of 8 set up and will be able to clear the space by next week. I am doing some as 50/50 perlite and coco and some as 3/1 perlite and vermiculite per a standard hempy. I'm feeding maxi bloom only, and it is my intention to top feed to pull some air into the root area.

Sloppy, or anyone trying this, if you have any issues, please report!!

Here is my tray. It is a plastic shoebox-sized storage box cut down with a section of a tray specific to my pots inside of it. The pots are mini treepot mt38's and the tray is an MT38T cut into an 8 container section.
This is my little cloner in "vacation mode" with the auto draining bottle like the dog waterer above. I've been doing this for a year or two and go out of town every couple months.

I top feed and allow the water to chill in the tray, but they need to be flushed every 2-3 weeks. My EC went up over 1.5 and pH down to 5.2 after a few weeks of feedings.

Bottom feeding to only the tray may be the way to go so you don't get salt build-up. Flushing a lot of pots is a PITA. I might try just flooding the trays next rather than top feed.

sm0k4 · Apr 30, 2011

zen_trikester said:
Yeah, coco holds onto a bit of mg so I hydrate my coco (bricks) with a dose of microblast and that seems to eliminate any problems right from the get go. I used .5-1 tsp per gal with my organic soil for a bit while moving away from Epsom salts and it was fine. Seems to be a rather large window between not enough an too much, but that may be more of an organic thing IDK. I use tap, so my intent is to see when the plants start asking for it since the maxi has a fair bit of micro nutes in it already and the coco should be handled when I dydrate it. My Apollo 11 is somewhat of an MG whore, so she'll be the first to bitch about it and she is in the first batch.

So far I like the way the perlite/coco holds onto the cuttings over the perlite/vermiculite mix. It is far more soil-like. I'm hoping I can find a way to recycle either medium. Not because I'm cheap, but because I am in an apartment and don't like to throw things like that out for security reasons. Seems that the cuttings take a little while longer to respond to the hydro nutes than they do in my organic soil. I already burned the crap out of a few cuts using full strength nutes on them right away, but once they drop roots they seem good with it. I assumed they wouldn't be happy but I figured it would be a good idea to get that out of the way right off the bat!!

Cool that we are doing some similar things. That helps a lot if one of us has a problem.

With my cuttings I just plop them into 12 oz. plastic cups with only coco as the medium. I water them when the top layer is no longer soaked, but moist. They really need the wet to dry transition so air gets to the stem. Usually every 1.5 to 2 days I need to water a little. I only feed them 300-500ppm solution. Some don't feed at all for the cloning stage and they do just fine also so there really isn't a need for any nutes when watering clones. One person said he doesn't pH his water for clones either but I still do that. I don't want the coco pH to get out of balance. My water is pretty hard from the tap.

They take 6-8 days to root and roughly 2 weeks to start showing new growth. Out of the 16 cuttings I took since using coco, only one didn't root in a reasonable amount of time so I tossed it. Coco is the shit, I really like it. No need for cloning machines or elaborate setups. I just throw a wet towel in the room for extra humidity and keep temps at about 80 degrees F. They love it.

Iraganji · Apr 30, 2011

Thx for the post, Iraganji. I was just wondering what you're reason was for the perlite layer at the bottom of your pots? Do you think perlite is better at wicking or draining than the coco, or do you think it trims/protects the roots, or something? I've thought about doing this many times, and I'm still attracted to the idea, even though I'm not quite sure what the benefit is.

It is to keep things from getting too soggy since the pots are sitting in water 24/7. They function as a wick for the coco.

zen_trikester · Apr 30, 2011

sm0k4 said:
I top feed and allow the water to chill in the tray, but they need to be flushed every 2-3 weeks. My EC went up over 1.5 and pH down to 5.2 after a few weeks of feedings.

Bottom feeding to only the tray may be the way to go so you don't get salt build-up. Flushing a lot of pots is a PITA. I might try just flooding the trays next rather than top feed.

Sounds logical for sure. I will keep an eye.

sm0k4 said:
With my cuttings I just plop them into 12 oz. plastic cups with only coco as the medium. I water them when the top layer is no longer soaked, but moist. They really need the wet to dry transition so air gets to the stem. Usually every 1.5 to 2 days I need to water a little. I only feed them 300-500ppm solution. Some don't feed at all for the cloning stage and they do just fine also so there really isn't a need for any nutes when watering clones. One person said he doesn't pH his water for clones either but I still do that. I don't want the coco pH to get out of balance. My water is pretty hard from the tap.

They take 6-8 days to root and roughly 2 weeks to start showing new growth. Out of the 16 cuttings I took since using coco, only one didn't root in a reasonable amount of time so I tossed it. Coco is the shit, I really like it. No need for cloning machines or elaborate setups. I just throw a wet towel in the room for extra humidity and keep temps at about 80 degrees F. They love it.

I wish I had room for plastic cups!! I only have room for 1/2" diameter vials. Ha! Thanks for the comments friend.

zen_trikester · May 24, 2011

The one on the left is all soil except one mini hempi cup in the front. The center and right trays are bottom fed/passive hydro/hempy trays. So far so good!

I did notice some roots that had dropped were not white and pretty like what I see in typical hydro threads... not sure if that is potentially a detriment to this. Everything looks green and healthy. Hardest part is getting them going. Seems soil is still faster in that regard.

thesloppy · May 24, 2011

zen_trikester said:
I did notice some roots that had dropped were not white and pretty like what I see in typical hydro threads... not sure if that is potentially a detriment to this.

Really? Hmmm. I can see the ends of my roots (since I grow in ghetto 2-liter bottles, and the bottoms are clear), and they usually all start out nice and white....though they will usually brown off after a week or two in the light.

Looks good, ZT.

NorCal · May 24, 2011

Who says you have no room for a veg area? Here's mine!

You gotta work with what you got so I chose to use shelves I configured myself with 6 bulb t5 fixtures. The components can all be bought from the container store ( for the shelving unit) and although this unit cost about $500 it fits exactly In The space available and all the lights and trays fit perfectly. It allows me to keep 12 mothers,3 trays of clones and 96 plants vegging at all times. All on a 7' wide by 8.5' tall wall.

I've been bottom feeding for years now. I use ebb and flow for flowering but I like to veg my plants by bottom feeding in black trays. I fell like it pulls the roots down towards the bottom of the pots because that's where the water is. Right when I transplant a clone it goes in to a five inch peat pot. I can fit 8 of these 5" pots per black tray and I can fit 12 black clone Trays perfectly in my veg area. The clones will usually poke through the 5" pot in 5-7 days. I have about a total of 1000w in t5 lighting but it's very efficient. If I continue to top my plants I can usually veg them for about 3 weeks in there. Which is plenty. It's a lot of wattage to run 24/7 but the feeling of having this room fully stocked At all times is priceless. I keep a 20 gallon trash can full of nutes and water about once a day with 16 ounces in each black tray. Takes me a total of about 15-20 min daily. The 5 " pots are usually so root bound and bushy by the time I use them that once they get their final transplant before they get flipped they take right off.
These are some of the smaller plants with a 3 week veg.

One of the bigger ones

Then after 10 days in flower

thesloppy · May 24, 2011

Awesome setup, NC. You're squeezing a lot out of that little space.

Bob-Hope · Jun 6, 2011

40 days ago under 96w.

Posted

16 days into 12/12.

Im feeding around 2 ltrs a day per plant, except for the plant thats right middle, this is in a smaller pot and is a sam.t.s haze skunk and is 11wks in with 7.1/2 wks still to go.

BoB

zen_trikester · Jun 6, 2011

NorCal said:
Who says you have no room for a veg area? Here's mine!

Yeah, I have a nosey 12yr old who is oblivious to my grow and needs to stay that way! I can't just add random cabinets without a backstory, and a lock just brings out the curiosity. Here is my veg area. It was formnerly a slideout vhs tape storage drawer and is approx 7"w x 20h x 14d. I can comfortably keep 7 moms, a 18 space cloner and 8 vegging plants in here.

That aside, your op looks sweet NorCal, and Bob's too. I should be doing some harvesting from these hempy tray plants in a few weeks, and the last of my soil plants will be out of the flower cab the week after next.

stonedar · Jun 6, 2011

that's beautiful Bob-Hope

Midnight Rudy · Jul 14, 2011

Has anyone tried using coco with osmocote + and just just adding water into the res? I have done this basic concept with with hydro nutes and it worked out great, but wondering if the time release prills mixed in with coco would work. that would be the easiest thing on the planet if so. I am using some osmo+ on outdoor veggies this year in strait coco and it is working great so far.

thesloppy · Jul 14, 2011

Midnight Rudy said:
Has anyone tried using coco with osmocote + and just just adding water into the res? I have done this basic concept with with hydro nutes and it worked out great, but wondering if the time release prills mixed in with coco would work. that would be the easiest thing on the planet if so. I am using some osmo+ on outdoor veggies this year in strait coco and it is working great so far.

Not me, I've certainly considered doing a run with some sort of pelletized organics, and I've done so in my dirt & topfeeding days, but I've never got around to trying out any pelletized/time released stuff in the coco.

Midnight Rudy · Jul 16, 2011

thesloppy said:
Not me, I've certainly considered doing a run with some sort of pelletized organics, and I've done so in my dirt & topfeeding days, but I've never got around to trying out any pelletized/time released stuff in the coco.

thanks sloppy

I'm doing a big from seed run right now and not sure I want to try it. Loosing a cut or two is one thing but seeds, I think I will just stick to what I know.

This does work well though with just maxibloom and some epsom. I mix epsom right into my coco. I give them a good tapwater flush at 2 weeks and then just water from there on out. I like perlite and coco 50/50.

My biggest issue, having come from organic dirt, was going too light on the nutes early on. Once they throw down roots and make the slightest bit of upward progress, I go with full strength nutes now, and that gets them going faster. Getting that timing down has made passive hydro work really well for me. If I ever try the osmocote thing I will try to remember to post back, but it will likely be a couple of months.

Midnight Rudy · Aug 9, 2011

I just left 17 seedlings in a bottom feed tray with full strength maxi bloom for 10 days unattended. I used small pots (3x3x8"h) in a kitty litter box that fits the bottom of my cabinet. I used a 1/2 gal bottle of nutes like the automatic dog waterer as mentioned earlier in the thread and that worked very well. Growth was vigorous on most, a couple didn't seem to do much while I was gone, and I did have one casualty unfortunately. I am very happy with how this worked out for me considering the length of time and how young they were.

Media is chunky coco (the landscape mulch version) mixed 50/50 with perlite and 1/4 tsp epsom salt per 1 ltr container. Nutes were tap water with 1 tsp maxibloom, + 4 drops superthrive per gallon and roughly 1 TBSP vinegar to achieve a ph of 6.0 ish. Easy peasy.

thesloppy · Aug 9, 2011

Nice, MR!

John Deere · Aug 9, 2011

Glad I finally noticed this thread. I like the idea and I'm going to experiment with it a bit.

I've got a Sour Bubble in 1G smart pot and she's been drying out a bit more than I'd like before her daily watering. I just placed her in a rubbermaid bin and 1/2 gallon nute water. (KISS/maxibloom) The water is a shade over 2" deep. I'll be interested to see how much it's dropped by tomorrow.

thesloppy · Aug 10, 2011

That's pretty close to what I do, JD. Coco in 2 liter pots, about 2 inches of water, and maxibloom for nutes. Bottomfeeding lets me water my plants about every 3-4 days, rather than every 1-2, which has saved me time and grief. Some big plants, towards the very end of flower, will still manage to drain my 'reservoir' in a day or two.

cyat · Aug 10, 2011

I been doin it in kiddee pools, saves time and plants seem to love it.
about to put my first autopot in effect which is a bottom waterer.

thesloppy · Aug 10, 2011

cyat said:
I been doin it in kiddee pools, saves time and plants seem to love it.
about to put my first autopot in effect which is a bottom waterer.

Yeah, I've been tempted by the autopot's many times before. Ironically the thing that most attracts me is the thing that also scares me off: I love the idea of a big reservoir and autofeeding, but I'm terrified of it failing and flooding.

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Bottomfeeding: no drain, no waste

sm0k4

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