Greenleaf Nutrients...

Avenger said:

I have a question, Is the label guaranteed analysis for the dry powder or is it for the liquid concentrate after you add the powder to your water?

Click to expand...

liquid, but the only difference is ratios when converting to powder guaranteed analysis

dramamine said:

This doesn't make sense. Your saying that the powder is more concentrated than the liquid stuff? Hard to argue that one... Or are you saying that your dilution instructions aren't accurate and this is why it was so salty? Like I said, it was a very small dose. It pushed the EC quite a bit.
What I'm saying is I mixed it by weight, so your response is moot.

Click to expand...

Yes, more concentrated than liquid just for a few additives where there isn't really much total ingredients. Its designed to give a better value to the customer getting more for what they pay for, also its an all organic product for that particular one. The concept of nutrient burn usually comes from too high a dosage of synthetic nutrients, but anyways its a bit complicated as it often manifests in nutrient deficiencies. Finally, the correct dosage of the product should raise ppm 100-200 (EC .2-.4). Considering its dry nutrients, its difficult to get 'hot spots' with ppm anomalies, so I really am not sure what happened if you said it raised your EC 1 point. If this is true, then the product is even 4x the concentration value so its a better deal, 1 package would make 2000Liters for $13? Sounds like a really good deal. This isn't backed up by evidence maybe you could email your order # to customer service and they could work out you a refund or product exchange. Why don't you do this?

If you have a PPM/EC meter, the best way to measure nutrients is using those tools, that goes for liquid nutrients as well. I normally ignore manufacturer recommended doses anyways when using most brands.

TheBioMaster said:

Like I said dramamine, dont waste your time or breath. This cat thinks he knows more than anyone else and we are all just idiots....ROFL!! Clearly he does not even have a BASIC understanding....AT ALL!! He certainly does not even have a clue what carbonates or bicarbonates are or there function. But I am sure he will be glad to fill us in with his EXPERT knowledge...ROFL!!


I am glad this guy thinks I am a nice person now....LOL!! Before he posted I had some characters flaws...LOL!!

Click to expand...

You still haven't answered your question, you claim that magical and botanicare cal mag plus are both quality cal mag products because they have bicarbonates, yet neither product has it listed in guaranteed analysis.

I also don't think I know more than everyone else, many people on this forum have exceptional knowledge about nutrients, and most of them use their own custom blends. If you would read a few threads you would find that out BioMaster.

Also, I don't think that you are ALL idiots as you claimed, I just took issue with you in specific (don't group yourself with other posters here as you represent yourself only). In fact you are the only person who I have heard claim the things you have and I haven't heard anyone agree with you on these claims such as "nutrients aren't just salts mixed together". It seems like you get most of your information from retailers or manufacturers selling you nutrients or products, such as "Chris at Veg+Bloom told me so and so," when you realize that someone selling you products isn't the best person to take advice from I think you will have reached a good turning point. Do your own research and think for yourself.

squarepush3r said:

when you realize that someone selling you products isn't the best person to take advice from I think you will have reached a good turning point. Do your own research and think for yourself.

Click to expand...

I'm gonna take that advice and back out of this thread slowly...

dramamine said:

I'm gonna take that advice and back out of this thread slowly...

Click to expand...

Go ahead, I encourage people who want to learn to do so themselves. In fact I made a guide for people on how to do so several years ago, you can find it here. Although your goal was to try to play gotcha by using my own words against me implying that I was incredible, I do encourage people who are willing to make their own nutrients to continue with that path, you can save some $ and surely learn a lot.

For those who don't want to invest the time and resources into doing so, we have high quality products for good prices. Check out some other grow forums to see what people are doing, they seem to have good results.

Ok, I get it, thanks for clearing that up! One minute I am nice person the next I have character flaws, and now I am a idiot. Nice skills you got there bro. Sorry I did not like your products or have even remotely a good experience, and sorry that I did not see a "Quality Product". But I am even MORE sorry that you decided to be a total prick about it and try and make it personal, just because the experience and comments are negative.

And for the record, you would not know a "Quality Product" apparently if I smacked you in the face with one!!!

Instead of taking the negative and LEARNING from it to make your product (and I use that term oh so loosely here) better, you just pretend to know more and then attack the person bringing the negative information forward. How ORIGINAL!!! LOL!!

The statements I made about bicarbonates and others are TRUE, not false no matter how many times you try and confuse the issue. All you do is reveal more of what you do not know. Maybe some very basic water chemistry and plant biology classes is in order.

And stop demanding proof moron of these BASIC FACTS that can ALL be VERY easily verified. Again you just show more ignorance on the matter.

You cant fix stupid. I was actually trying to be nice.

Post all the crap you want bro. I have no time for idiots like you. I think I am also done with this thread and this horse shit that this guy post.

Talk about twisting up peoples words....trying to reason with this cat is like trying to reason with a 3 year old, whatever you say he just reverses it and says it back. LOL!! This is the same thing that happens when you try to reason with a child. LOL!!

I have worked with many nutrient companies first hand, and what I really said was that not ALL nutrients are just salts mixed with water which is ALL your product is. Get it right fucktard!! This guy is CLUELESS!

There are nutrient companies that use very special processes to obtain the right "form" of the ingredient. They also spend THOUSANDS of dollars and YEARS of time trying to isolate a certain element or mineral in a special form. This takes MONEY and HARDWARE and TIME!! Something this guy is totally clueless about!! So it kinda bugs me when he puts this label on it and says "Just like X product but lots cheaper!" That is UTTER BULLSHIT!! Especially when I can tell that most of the ingredients came from a fucking grocery store!!

The guy behind House & Garden for example used knowledge experience he had been collecting since CHILDHOOD to formulate there new product recently released called Amino Treatment. This man over a lifetime of work was finally able to isolate a VERY special enzyme that is found in seeds. The process and method used to obtain this took YEARS to develop. This is just ONE example, there are MANY MANY more examples I could list.

Nutrient companies do not buy shit like grape juice concentrate and put it in the formula they sell you!! You seem to not even be able to grasp a understanding of the "Derived From" section of a product label.

Do not even get me started on the Cal/Mag BS again......

If you want to be a amateur and sell some salts at a good deal, no problem there!!

BUT STOP CLAIMING ALL THIS BS YOU ARE CLAIMING WHEN YOU CLEARLY DO NOT EVEN UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS IT TAKES TO MAKE THE NUTRIENT IN THE FIRST FUCKING PLACE!!

What you have demonstrated with your attacks on me and others who had issues; was that you have ZERO decency or respect or KNOWLEDGE for making nutrients AT ALL!

Buying salts and mixing your own nutrients is a good thing and more people should take the time and learn about how to do this.

hi guys i recently purchase a box of this for £6.20

its N.P.K ratio is 12.5-25-25 when watered down 4 times it gives you
N.P.K of 3.1-6.2-6.2 and it contains all the macros more or less the same as ionic canna and other nutes , this feed has every thing but calcium in it , all the chelates are the same and in the same order

i think it water down to about 6000lt of nutes
not tried it yet but used to mix my own salts and going to give it a go soon

http://www.thompson-morgan.com/garden-supplies/fertilisers/chempak-low-nitrogen-feed/kww2553TM

dramamine said:

I'm gonna take that advice and back out of this thread slowly...

Click to expand...

PRICELESS post dramamine!!

delete duplicate post

TheBioMaster said:

Ok, I get it, thanks for clearing that up! One minute I am nice person the next I have character flaws, and now I am a idiot. Nice skills you got there bro. Sorry I did not like your products or have even remotely a good experience, and sorry that I did not see a "Quality Product". But I am even MORE sorry that you decided to be a total prick about it and try and make it personal, just because the experience and comments are negative.

And for the record, you would not know a "Quality Product" apparently if I smacked you in the face with one!!!

Instead of taking the negative and LEARNING from it to make your product (and I use that term oh so loosely here) better, you just pretend to know more and then attack the person bringing the negative information forward. How ORIGINAL!!! LOL!!

The statements I made about bicarbonates and others are TRUE, not false no matter how many times you try and confuse the issue. All you do is reveal more of what you do not know. Maybe some very basic water chemistry and plant biology classes is in order.

And stop demanding proof moron of these BASIC FACTS that can ALL be VERY easily verified. Again you just show more ignorance on the matter.

You cant fix stupid. I was actually trying to be nice.

Post all the crap you want bro. I have no time for idiots like you. I think I am also done with this thread and this horse shit that this guy post.

Talk about twisting up peoples words....trying to reason with this cat is like trying to reason with a 3 year old, whatever you say he just reverses it and says it back. LOL!! This is the same thing that happens when you try to reason with a child. LOL!!

I have worked with many nutrient companies first hand, and what I really said was that not ALL nutrients are just salts mixed with water which is ALL your product is. Get it right fucktard!! This guy is CLUELESS!

There are nutrient companies that use very special processes to obtain the right "form" of the ingredient. They also spend THOUSANDS of dollars and YEARS of time trying to isolate a certain element or mineral in a special form. This takes MONEY and HARDWARE and TIME!! Something this guy is totally clueless about!! So it kinda bugs me when he puts this label on it and says "Just like X product but lots cheaper!" That is UTTER BULLSHIT!! Especially when I can tell that most of the ingredients came from a fucking grocery store!!

The guy behind House & Garden for example used knowledge experience he had been collecting since CHILDHOOD to formulate there new product recently released called Amino Treatment. This man over a lifetime of work was finally able to isolate a VERY special enzyme that is found in seeds. The process and method used to obtain this took YEARS to develop. This is just ONE example, there are MANY MANY more examples I could list.

Nutrient companies do not buy shit like grape juice concentrate and put it in the formula they sell you!! You seem to not even be able to grasp a understanding of the "Derived From" section of a product label.

Do not even get me started on the Cal/Mag BS again......

If you want to be a amateur and sell some salts at a good deal, no problem there!!

BUT STOP CLAIMING ALL THIS BS YOU ARE CLAIMING WHEN YOU CLEARLY DO NOT EVEN UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS IT TAKES TO MAKE THE NUTRIENT IN THE FIRST FUCKING PLACE!!

What you have demonstrated with your attacks on me and others who had issues; was that you have ZERO decency or respect or KNOWLEDGE for making nutrients AT ALL!

Buying salts and mixing your own nutrients is a good thing and more people should take the time and learn about how to do this.

Click to expand...

You don't even make this difficult for me.

http://www.jasons-indoor-guide-to-o...ening.com/high-ph-hard-water-hydroponics.html

High pH - Hard Water Hydroponics

by Jon J.
(Prescott Valley, AZ)​

My well water has a pH of 8.2. I have tried lowering the pH so I can use it for hydroponics, but it bounces back (less than 24 hours). In reading, it seems that would be caused by hard water. The million dollar question is how do I correct my waters pH. Jon

Answer: Jon- the main culprit for hard water is Calcium Carbonate. In small amounts, the pH of the water will only need a small adjustment. The ideal pH of the water you start with would be 7.0. After adding hydroponic nutrients and additives, the ideal pH of the solution should be around 5.9-6.2.

Having Calcium Carbonate in your water will cause more of a problem than just having your pH out of whack. Calcium Carbonate will register on your TDS or EC meter, and the more Calcium Carbonate in the water, the less room there will be for your nutrients. On top of this, the pH down that you add to correct the problem also increases the TDS/EC of the solution (leaving even less room for your nutrients). Finally, plants tend to uptake the Calcium Carbonate before they will uptake other forms of Calcium which are more usable to the plants. If you grow in water with high levels of Calcium Carbonate, there is a very good chance your plants will exhibit a Calcium deficiency (or other nutrient deficiency).

Click to expand...

There you go Biomaster, your all power carbonates which you hail as the cornerstone of quality products, is simply hard water which most people buy water filtering machines to remove. It is not an effective ph stabilizer nor is it an effective calcium source for plants to absorb.

You are trying to round up a battle cry to get people to stand up and agree with you with your crusade against me, but you stand on almost nothing. You buy this "Secret Enzyme" $100/bottle BS that only cannabis nutrient companies will be foolish enough to try to sell you, if you look at the real agriculture world, outside of cannabis, no one buys this shit or would even try to pull it on commercial farmers. A real touching story about how an H&G owner works his entire life since childhood to isolate a selected enzyme that is so amazing! Did you know that H&G basically stole a lot of formulas from Canna and they had employee(s) defect from Canna to create this company. So the way I understand, some employees just defected from Canna to copy formulas and create their own company based on the same concept of Hydroponic Nutrients. Not groundbreaking or interesting.

Also, did you know magnesium sulfate, b vitamins, amino acids, and other ingredients can be bought "in a fucking grocery store?" This really makes your argument silly, as well as other things like dextrose, glucose, blackstrap molasses, plant extracts, brewers yeasts, can all be "bought in fucking stores" and Advanced Nutrients uses them as ingredients, as well as other nutrient companies.

Enjoy your calcium carbonate grows BioMaster, I bet you get some fat budzzzz.

Ganja baba said:

hi guys i recently purchase a box of this for £6.20

its N.P.K ratio is 12.5-25-25 when watered down 4 times it gives you
N.P.K of 3.1-6.2-6.2 and it contains all the macros more or less the same as ionic canna and other nutes , this feed has every thing but calcium in it , all the chelates are the same and in the same order

i think it water down to about 6000lt of nutes
not tried it yet but used to mix my own salts and going to give it a go soon

http://www.thompson-morgan.com/garden-supplies/fertilisers/chempak-low-nitrogen-feed/kww2553TM

Click to expand...

Hi Ganja baba. I followed that link above, and I can't find any label information or details about that, so I can't comment on what kind of quality it is. Could you take a picture or scan of the label with ingredients and analysis, and I can tell you if it is good or not. Also, what is your application, indoor (hydroponic) or outdoor (soil) growing? Will be able to answer once I get some more information.

hi squarepush will do . i tired to find a pic ofthe back of the box on the net but could not find any .

on a side note i am using metrop at the mo and its quite concentrated and supposed to be pure with out other additives . whats your take on this range are you aware of it by any chance .?

Ganja baba said:

hi squarepush will do . i tired to find a pic ofthe back of the box on the net but could not find any .

on a side note i am using metrop at the mo and its quite concentrated and supposed to be pure with out other additives . whats your take on this range are you aware of it by any chance .?

Click to expand...

hey Ganja, I haven't heard of it before I think its a UK product but I was able to Google it and found a bit of info. Here is their website

http://www.metrop.net/3_uk_MR1 grow fertilizer.html

Which product do you use specifically, and do you use soil or hydroponic growing medium?

The MR1 product I linked to looks like its a nice quality product but seems geared towards soil due to nitrogen source. Is this the product that you use? best

I wonder where BioMaster went, I though he decided to stop posting in this thread, but maybe it appears he was behind the scenes in contact with Advanced Nutrients legal department?

Advanced Nutrients(AN) today filed a claim for C&D and threaten legal action against Greenleaf Nutrients(GN). The basis of their claim is that GN is "passing off their products" as AN, however this is not true as can be clearly seen on the main homepage of GN website.

http://greenleafnutrients.com/

On the third paragraph down on the homepage, it clearly states all products are our own products, and mention of any other brands or names is simply for comparative purposes. The FCC allows comparative advertising on the basis that the customer can compare product, however "passing off" or fooling the customer into thinking they are buying a different product is prohibited.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/policystmt/ad-compare.htm

It is clear all GN has done is used comparative advertising, as none of their products have the same name, they simply state on some pages "this product is similar to another product ______." Thus, there is no intent of confusion or anyway someone could think they are actually buying an AN product. Further, it is also stated that our products ship as a dry powder product, and AN's products sell as liquid formulas typically in 1 Liter liquid containers or larger.

Regardless of this, AN is falsely claiming that GN is trying to counterfeit products and pass off fake products, and thus attempting to shut down GN website and will use legal action. This is simply an act of bullying by a multimillion dollar company against a very small company to scare them into shutting down their site and forcing their domain host to delete their website and remove their account.

So, I will let ya folks know how it turns out, but we definitely don't plan to let ourselves by bullied around just caus were small =p

Maybe they want to shut you down cause they don't want people that try your products to think their stuff is anything like yours. It would be an embarrassment for them.

Lowman said:

Maybe they want to shut you down cause they don't want people that try your products to think their stuff is anything like yours. It would be an embarrassment for them.

Click to expand...

Lowman, the B-Alive product raises PPM approximately ~250 when used at instructed dosages given. There are also ~500 servings per 1 Liter order size. We test our products in house, we have it mathematically computed, and 3rd party measurement verified this. Any dramatic deviation from this reading is simply your own error in measurement or dosage. Now I apologize if the instructions were written poorly or not clear that you didn't understand it at first or anything like that, but we even tried to resolve the issue with you on customer support. You mixed incorrectly and refused advice on correct dosage after having questions about it, there's not much I can say to you.

I will send out a free product to someone on this forum to independently verify actual PPM values and post here. For you really to hold a grudge still based on your own mistake is really rather unbelievable to me!

squarepush3r said:

Lowman, the B-Alive product raises PPM approximately ~250 when used at instructed dosages given. There are also ~500 servings per 1 Liter order size. We test our products in house, we have it mathematically computed, and 3rd party measurement verified this. Any dramatic deviation from this reading is simply your own error in measurement or dosage. Now I apologize if the instructions were written poorly or not clear that you didn't understand it at first or anything like that, but we even tried to resolve the issue with you on customer support. You mixed incorrectly and refused advice on correct dosage after having questions about it, there's not much I can say to you.

I will send out a free product to someone on this forum to independently verify actual PPM values and post here. For you really to hold a grudge still based on your own mistake is really rather unbelievable to me!

Click to expand...

Bullshit!!! I did not measure wrong! You did not try and resolve it online either. You kept saying the same thing over and over again....instead of answering the questions and concerns I had. I am not dyslexic or have bad eyesight which you have tried to point out earlier.

You sir are a complete phoney tryin to cash in on the nutrient market with bogus crap.

Have a great 420. I can only hope your bogus website is shut down very soon so no one else gets duped...like I did.

Lowman said:

Bullshit!!! I did not measure wrong! You did not try and resolve it online either. You kept saying the same thing over and over again....instead of answering the questions and concerns I had. I am not dyslexic or have bad eyesight which you have tried to point out earlier.

You sir are a complete phoney tryin to cash in on the nutrient market with bogus crap.

Have a great 420. I can only hope your bogus website is shut down very soon so no one else gets duped...like I did.

Click to expand...

hi Lowman

I am not trying to make you mad or rile anyone up, but the dosage is .5 grams powder per Liter which is stated on the label and instruction. I tested this in the morning, and yesterday, also we have computer simulations which estimate ppm by formulations, and using at the correct dosage gives approx 200-250 ppm. There are 500 servings per 1 Liter size. All the tests and calculations also verify the range of 200-250 ppm.

I encourage you to remeasure right now and double check as you stated you still have some left over. The instructions can be seen right here again.
http://greenleafnutrients.com/PDF/BAlive.pdf
Again, this should be an easy matter to resolve, and I said I will send anyone experienced on this forum a free order to independently verify.

Also you may be surprised, but we don't profit very much from the nutrient market. In fact every other company I can surely say profit much more on a % basis and a whole number basis. Being fairly small now means we can't buy huge bulk orders of ingredients so we pay a bit more for materials than major brands.

EDIT: Also, Lowman, the last thing we want is for people to think we are taking their money being greedy. Please as I mentioned earlier we would love to give you a refund, we have full refund policy even shipping, email customer service privately for your money back and keep whatever product you have.

I have been looking for a nute thread with some sense in it all over the www and this looks like the first one I've found.

Been growing hydro for over 20 years now and the first thing I will tell you is I DON'T know what I am doing. I have used Dyna Grow, NSR Greeleaves, GH Flora and now Greenleaf Logic Grow.

I found Greenleaf Logic Grow on ebay a couple of months ago when I was looking for a reasonable price on cal/mag. I am not into additives and I don't know if the cal/mag is of any value. Theoretically a decent fertilizer has everything needed in it and when combined with tap water you don't need cal/mag or anything else. I have run into trouble the last few grows when I shifted the light time. I was switching from grow fert to bloom fert too early and/or not calibrating my pH meter often enough and always ending up with a lot of brown leaves. I wanted the cal/mag just in case calcium was a problem. I think my problems stemmed from operator error rather than nute deficiencies. If you don't have the pH right the nutes are useless.

Greenleaf cal/mag is dry and packed in a moisture proof envelope which is good. I haven't mixed it up yet so I don't know if it is any good and I really have no way of knowing short of repeating the same conditions over again with and without the cal/mag. I never seem to use the same set of nutes all the way through.

Along with the cal/mag was a sample of Greenleaf Logic Grow. It was sealed in a moisture proof envelope which was good. Moisture is a problem with nutes. As far as I can tell most of the dry formula nutes have a problem with the calcium nitrate that is used. If it gets hydrated it will cause problems with the other salts and so is usually kept separate necessitating a two part dry mix. GH makes a three part nute because of problems with potassium precipitating out I believe. Point here is that you can't mix everything up in one lump sum unless you can keep it dry and good luck with that as air has moisture in it.

I figured I would try the Greenleaf Logic Grow and see what happened. Did my usual routine of starting clones in my NFT set up. I didn't like the color of the Logic Grow but that is a minor complaint. One problem with the Logic Grow is that the various ingredients have a different size and shape to them. When you are scooping the material from the source you can get too much of the little stuff and not enough of the big stuff or vise versa.

I measured very carefully, both by volume and by weight. After mixing I diluted the solution a little as has been my practice. After two weeks my clones had not taken off the way they usually do. After three weeks I noticed I was about a week behind in the growth I expected. I gave up on the Logic Grow and went back to GH. In two days the clones all but leaped out of the gutter as they took off. I was very disappointed in the Logic Grow and would not use it again. I will pay for shipping water across the country before I try Logic Grow again.

The next dry nute I am going to try is Cropking Hydro-Gro. Check out Cropking yourself online. They appear to do nothing but hydroponics. They seem to sell to commercial growers so I am making the assumption they know what they are doing or they would not be around. Their Hydro-Gro is a two-part dry mix. As I stated before you apparently can't let the calcium nitrate get any moisture with the other chemicals.

I do have to say the nutes for cannabis are a lot of hype. I think the commercial growers must chuckle at the amateurs growing cannabis with all their additives and the RO water. I tried the RO water route and will say it is needless and can cause problems because you are removing micro nutrients from the water that are needed.

Fertilizer for cannabis is so full of hype and all these threads are full of shills that are pushing a product.

Greenleaf Logic Grow is a nice idea but they have a lot of work to do on their formula.

ole-possum said:

I have been looking for a nute thread with some sense in it all over the www and this looks like the first one I've found.

Click to expand...

My advice...keep looking.

TheBioMaster said:

That kinda sucks lowman, but your right, live and learn. Ive wasted a few bucks for sure in the past and it kinda taste bad..... If your looking for a really good affordable nutrient line check out Blue Planet Nutrients. Shoot the guy Corey an email and he will hook you up bro, with some quality nutrients. I think he will send you samples to try even possibly. This dude knows his stuff for sure. We tried his 2 part and 3 part with a pk booster and the stuff rocks and is super cheap.

Click to expand...

i'm demo'ing blue planets organic line called farmers pride. not bad stuff. a couple of my bigger growing casey jones are showing some nitro deficiency. they recommend feeding with everyother watering and i think some plants need nutes with every watering. i think their offerring a deal if you do a grow thread

I did a grow with their logic grow in veg. In 12/12 With another off brand from eBay called QuickGrow bud with greenleafs blooming powder. I dont have one bad thing to say about any of the three products.

I just ordered GL's 1 part lucas formula and will be runningit on my next grow.

**EDIT** I also love the fact they ship your stuff to you for free and their prices are great.

I was just reminded of why I don't like the General Hydroponics Flora series. My solution tends to go to a low pH. When I try to add pH Up (potassium carbonate and potassium silicate) to the solution the the potassium precipitates out. I have to raise the pH with sodium hydroxide.

My plants are over one week behind. I think because I used Greenleaf Logic Grow.