Local materials

Microbeman · Apr 21, 2019

p-nut I have only used the mash/grain in compost but plan to try it as a mulch, a fermentation and worm feed.

P-NUT · Apr 22, 2019

I would suggest to go lightly on feeding it to worms and mix with some bedding or castings. They didn't like it unless it was mixed in real good for me. The guy I bought my worms from said he cooked some by adding too much. I've been contemplating using it as a mulch but haven't taken the plunge yet. Let me know how that goes.

h.h. · Apr 22, 2019

I ended up mostly using the spent grain to feed the pigs.
With that a lot of it just passes through as roughage.
The birds will eat it at a certain point.
I think its still fermenting when I get it. It then hits a second I'm guessing lactose bacterial infection.
Makes it hot for the worms. A bit problematic to compost. As mulch it packs. Sort if like DG.

Not to be a downer. The upside is you get a lot of it. Its a matter of finding its place.
Maybe a sour mash?

Keeping the palm fronds outdoors is probably a good idea. The one time I had gnats was from using fibrous mulch (yucca). Lots of gnat protection.

Rico Swazi · Apr 22, 2019

Microbeman said:
Sorry..no photos today. Long day. I'm charging up the Nikon though. My helper picked a full Rubbermaid type tub of nut sedge so I'm fermenting it for nutrients ala TimXJay. Not much sagebrush until one hikes up into the mountains. There are lots of cacti, aloe species, palms, many flowers.

I've got dried leaf and sawdust for carbon as well as straw, palm fronds, spent brewers mash. I plan to get a chipper shredder, then we will have lots of material from tree management guys.

You mention Jay, have you seen or heard from him? I was a member here around 2006 up until the exodus to TSD (2012?). I joined but never posted much there either, never joined LG as everything was available without membership. Thanks for doing that btw.

Jay was way ahead of his time as he was all in on using local materials for fermentation and use in the garden . Would love to see what he has going now. Happy earth day jaykush :wave:

Are you fermenting the tubers also or just aerial parts? Separately? Did you make LAB using local microbes or will you be using only clean water for your fermentation?

Would nut sedge be one of those medicinal plants you plan to study? Have you done any study on ashwagandha as its another ancient Indian ayurvedic medicine as I am sure you are aware.

no hurries or worries man, enjoy every day to the fullest
Thanks for answering my Qs

Microbeman · Apr 22, 2019

I have not heard from Jay since he was posting briefly on the forum Gascanastan initiated and went out of this world. Probably Jay was completely turned off by the experience.
Yes Logical Gardener is a research resource - mostly

We put the whole plant, roots and dirt into a bin, added EM stock, molasses and water, then put on a tight lid; in the sun.

I'm working a few plants at a time. Right now trying to grow red clover, dandelion, heal-all, yarrow, wormwood, wild lettuce, chamomile, cayenne, lavender, valerian. Also trying to learn some locals. Getting adjusted to how the plants respond to the sun here is a challenge.

h.h. · Apr 23, 2019

I seeded red clover.
Never saw much of it.

Cacti:

Spineless

https://www.lutherburbank.org/about-us/specialty-gardens/spineless-cactus

Phychoactive
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echinopsis_pachanoi

Endophytic bacteria
https://www.researchgate.net/public...n_Improve_the_Development_of_Cactus_Seedlings

h.h. · Apr 23, 2019

Desert gardening book. Based in Arizona.

https://www.amazon.com/Desert-Gardening-Fruits-Vegetables-Complete/dp/1555610021

Olives

http://www.sacredearth.com/ethnobotany/plantprofiles/olive.php

Acacia

https://www.treehugger.com/green-fo...as-soil-problems-be-the-future-for-farms.html

https://www.perennialsolutions.org/fukuokas-food-forest

Honey mesquite

https://www.horticultureunlimited.com/plant-guide/honey-mesquite/

Rico Swazi · Apr 23, 2019

P-NUT said:
Microbeman, how do use the spent brewers mash? I have access to a few hundred gallon a week. We feed it to our cows.
As for palm trunks I have a swamp full of sago palms that have fallen and broke down over the years and it's some of the richest soil I've seen. I have them taking over some cow pastures and was thinking about cutting them down and extracting the palm hearts the using the trunks for hugelculture. I have also used palm fronds as a mulch with success. Was thinking of using some palm fronds for a mulch indoors but don't want to introduce any microscopic mites and have that headache.

I was wondering what the effect of using the brewers mash in combination with sago palm in the hugelkultur bed?
Perhaps a little lacto to hasten the whole process but not necessary IMO, grains should do nicely on their own

Would love to see it all come together for you in a big way P-NUT
as it would hopefully inspire more people to use what is local. Good plan and good luck :tiphat:

h.h. · Apr 23, 2019

Rico Swazi said:
I was wondering what the effect of using the brewers mash in combination with sago palm in the hugelkultur bed?
Perhaps a little lacto to hasten the whole process but not necessary IMO, grains should do nicely on their own

Would love to see it all come together for you in a big way P-NUT
as it would hopefully inspire more people to use what is local. Good plan and good luck

Left in a container, SBG spent brewery grain goes through a second (LB?) fermentation on its own.

Your property starts smelling like stale beer.
Okay for a bit.
I spread it thin.
Really not my favorite.
Good thing is I can get a lot.

Rico Swazi · Apr 23, 2019

Microbeman said:
I have not heard from Jay since he was posting briefly on the forum Gascanastan initiated and went out of this world. Probably Jay was completely turned off by the experience.
Yes Logical Gardener is a research resource - mostly

We put the whole plant, roots and dirt into a bin, added EM stock, molasses and water, then put on a tight lid; in the sun.

I'm working a few plants at a time. Right now trying to grow red clover, dandelion, heal-all, yarrow, wormwood, wild lettuce, chamomile, cayenne, lavender, valerian. Also trying to learn some locals. Getting adjusted to how the plants respond to the sun here is a challenge.

I missed the fun. (sarc) I believe there was writing on the wall for those who could read between the lines. No doubt Jay was one of those who had seen and read enough early on so he split. I can empathize with him for that thing with TSD really bothered me and shut me down for a spell.

Logical Gardener is a gold mine.
Speaking of MIA, have you been in contact with Spurr?
Let him know he is appreciated if you do see or hear from him.
Curious as to the temps of the fermenting tub in the sun. Will this be one of those challenges you speak of or is all going well?
Very nice line up of plants for a cup of green tea. (and ferment of course)

Nice to have this discourse with you and thank you for your time

Rico Swazi · Apr 23, 2019

h.h. said:
Left in a container, SBG spent brewery grain goes through a second (LB?) fermentation on its own.

Your property starts smelling like stale beer.
Okay for a bit.
I spread it thin.
Really not my favorite.
Good thing is I can get a lot.

probably lacto yes is why I said not necessary IMO

have you tried it on your huglebeds?

h.h. · Apr 24, 2019

I struggle to call them huglebeds.
It has the influence, but the style is different.
I have spread the sbg over it all, but I also use a lot of gathered leaf, wood chips, wood chips from rabbit bedding, and some sawdust from a cabinet shop. Hard to evaluate.

I haven't seen much growing in spots where I used it for food. Choked the weeds out. I'd have to check it this spring to truly evaluate. I'm not there.

h.h. · Apr 25, 2019

I'm thinking back a couple winters, I was using the SBG in my fermentations, so some did end up in my soil.

I'm going to guess 1 gallon in 50, maybe twice that. I got notes somewhere. Not here.
Good or bad, I got a couple rounds out of it with little feeding.

h.h. · May 5, 2019

Any aloe or aqave processing plants locally?

Rico Swazi · May 9, 2019

h.h. said:
I struggle to call them huglebeds.
It has the influence, but the style is different.
I have spread the sbg over it all, but I also use a lot of gathered leaf, wood chips, wood chips from rabbit bedding, and some sawdust from a cabinet shop. Hard to evaluate.

I haven't seen much growing in spots where I used it for food. Choked the weeds out. I'd have to check it this spring to truly evaluate. I'm not there.

I struggle to call them hugelbeets :biggrin:

Working on another bed myself, pit style, with the help of a few locals

these beds will serve as a bioswale (for lack of a better name) connecting to the french drain at the corner of the property.
(river rock in foreground)
Been wanting to do this for some time now as the soil has loads of clay and has caused drainage issues in the heaviest of rains.

this is as far as I got... lots more work to do

I use lots of soil in the making of my beds along with the carbon inputs. Difficult to evaluate the best 'mix' or percentage of soil to organic matter but beds that fail usually do so for lack of soil to wood contact.

Hey MM, bet that battery is good and charged by now
and sorry if a bit off topic

seriously, would love to see more pics when you get time
thanks brother

h.h. · May 9, 2019

"Bioswell". Interesting.
That was my thinking. I just didn't know it.
I can get a lot of runnoff when it rains. I wanted to catch it and absorb it as a means of retention while charging up the soil and as a means of supplying the trees.

Microbeman · May 9, 2019

Hey MM, bet that battery is good and charged by now
and sorry if a bit off topic

The big part is being too lazy to drag the tripod outside and been working on acquiring the lot next door and keeping things wet, 3 heavy waterings a day now, [might hafto eat my words about the pepper plants] and renewing my visa, putting new counters in the kitchen. I put in counters I can roll carts with shelves under instead of cupboards which all go moldy here. Tore all the cabinets out tiled the walls and tiled on top of wooden counters.

I've got a few photos on my phone. You asked for it;

The kitchen project;

Front before planting

Microbeman · May 9, 2019

Crop of clover, grass, dandelion, heal all, chamomile inside brick, little bushy tree in agony was transplanted yesterday

Coffee and Papaya

h.h. · May 10, 2019

I like the shelf idea.
I lose stuff in cabinets.
Nice tile.
Eclectic.

Rico Swazi · May 10, 2019

Wow, blew my mind to see all the work you have done in such a short time. I asked and you delivered big time. Thanks. Love the before and after of the yard. The red brick border and tree ring are a nice re-use of a local material. looks nice too. Have to agree with h.h. on a very eclectic color scheme, interesting yet soothing, well done.

Wish you success on acquiring the lot next door. Is there a dwelling on it or empty lot ?
Are you considering doing a huglebed on your property?

Hats off to you for the effort in making that place your own
enjoy your day

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