I have the king cloner. What, like 36 ports... I have never used a humidity dome. Ever. Once the cutting is placed in the cloner there is no need for any dome. The stem sucks up all the moisture it needs. I do however trim the tips off of the biggest leafs of the cutting. I Only use tap water and if the temps in the room are above 65, they have all rooted enough to plant within 10 days. 38 is astonishing. I'm almost sure it was low temps causing the delay. A change from warm lights to bright, but cool ones was likely enough for the stall.
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Distinguished and Nurtured Kind
- Thread starter dank.frank
- Start date
Been a few years since I cloned anything... been hammering the seeds for a bit so I don’t get bored.
When I used to clone I’d always stand some extra bare cuttings in glasses of water in the corner of the veg room ... often more of them would root than in the prop.
When I used to clone I’d always stand some extra bare cuttings in glasses of water in the corner of the veg room ... often more of them would root than in the prop.
I remember a story about clones being cut and kept in a ziplock bag in the refrigerator, can’t remember the time frame but we will probably hear from somebody who has done it!
Edit: dank.frank back in the saddle
Edit: dank.frank back in the saddle
When my plants are super healthy, I can take cuts and store them in the crisper/vegetable drawer for 3wks or so, and still get them to root without issue using hydro/bubble cloning methods.
Used to do it all the time if there were super healthy cuts and a plant needed to be cut back and replanted. It works.
dank.Frank
Used to do it all the time if there were super healthy cuts and a plant needed to be cut back and replanted. It works.
dank.Frank
Hey Frank, glad things are working out for ya man. Sometimes in life though, I have to accept that I simply don't have the experience to chip in on someone else's dilemmas in life, and just keep my mouth shut. This has been one of those times. Any advice or words I offered would have been at best, worthless.
Now on with an area I do take part in. Have you developed any more led theories?
Im of the mindset now, that its purely a case of plants liking the light their ancestors were bred under best. I think we've been nieche breeding for hpscfor so long, we now have to find the individuals amongst the populations that respond well to it and start breeding them for the led world. Popping seeds rather than working clones has led me to that belief. I don't think altering nutes for led is the way to go, but breeding will sort it out. What do you think, I do like bouncing thoughts off you.
Now on with an area I do take part in. Have you developed any more led theories?
Im of the mindset now, that its purely a case of plants liking the light their ancestors were bred under best. I think we've been nieche breeding for hpscfor so long, we now have to find the individuals amongst the populations that respond well to it and start breeding them for the led world. Popping seeds rather than working clones has led me to that belief. I don't think altering nutes for led is the way to go, but breeding will sort it out. What do you think, I do like bouncing thoughts off you.
Don't worry GMT. I won't forget you!!!! 
I'm really not sure. To be completely honest. I've NOT used the lights, with properly amended soil to date. I've seen issues, but I can't really say for certain why.
I do think, if you want thick stems under LED, you need airflow. You need to rustle the plants. Those in the path of airflow are what I'd want to see. Those not - are suffering a sort of thin/brittle stem like I'd see under Fluro/T8/HOT5.
I think I need a couple SMALL, recirculating fans. Just to keep the plants...moving gently, 24/7.
While this is NORMAL, to prevent hot spots - air flow slightly above the canopy but below the lights - I think it's NECESSARY with LED. NOT in the gap, but actually air flow on the plants.
I'm not seeing the general girth in the stems that I see with CMH/HID. I know from previous experience, if the stems are thin, they can't support big flowers. That's the ENTIRE reason, I've complained before about vegging with T8 and transitioning to HID. You have to veg under HID a bit to get the plants to beef up for flower. That 9-11 days, every cycle - essentially costs me an entire cycle each year.
This is why I think an upgrade in VEG - to LED - was my original goal, IF - they allow me to transition seamless from veg to flower without any additional veg time under HID...
Now - I'm FLOWERING under these quantum LED panels - and I'm still, not in anyway at all, sold - convinced - willing to say much of anything. That's not because they are HGLED - notice, I'm not saying much of anything at all about the Mars Hydro unit either.
We will get there. I will eventually give an over-all thought on the experience. It will be several crops before I really give a final review - but ultimately, if I keep the lights up or if I take them down and go back to 315w CMH - will say more than anything I could ever possibly type.
For now, I'm growing with LED. I'm probably the biggest skeptic ever, and I told both companies that before they sent me products. toys vs tools. I feel like I have a fisher price grow room play set hanging above my plants.
We shall see.
dank.Frank
I'm really not sure. To be completely honest. I've NOT used the lights, with properly amended soil to date. I've seen issues, but I can't really say for certain why.
I do think, if you want thick stems under LED, you need airflow. You need to rustle the plants. Those in the path of airflow are what I'd want to see. Those not - are suffering a sort of thin/brittle stem like I'd see under Fluro/T8/HOT5.
I think I need a couple SMALL, recirculating fans. Just to keep the plants...moving gently, 24/7.
While this is NORMAL, to prevent hot spots - air flow slightly above the canopy but below the lights - I think it's NECESSARY with LED. NOT in the gap, but actually air flow on the plants.
I'm not seeing the general girth in the stems that I see with CMH/HID. I know from previous experience, if the stems are thin, they can't support big flowers. That's the ENTIRE reason, I've complained before about vegging with T8 and transitioning to HID. You have to veg under HID a bit to get the plants to beef up for flower. That 9-11 days, every cycle - essentially costs me an entire cycle each year.
This is why I think an upgrade in VEG - to LED - was my original goal, IF - they allow me to transition seamless from veg to flower without any additional veg time under HID...
Now - I'm FLOWERING under these quantum LED panels - and I'm still, not in anyway at all, sold - convinced - willing to say much of anything. That's not because they are HGLED - notice, I'm not saying much of anything at all about the Mars Hydro unit either.
We will get there. I will eventually give an over-all thought on the experience. It will be several crops before I really give a final review - but ultimately, if I keep the lights up or if I take them down and go back to 315w CMH - will say more than anything I could ever possibly type.
For now, I'm growing with LED. I'm probably the biggest skeptic ever, and I told both companies that before they sent me products. toys vs tools. I feel like I have a fisher price grow room play set hanging above my plants.
We shall see.
dank.Frank
The fridge thing does work with healthy cuts for sure lol
I'd be curious as well how that led to hid transition works out. I'm actually looking at replacing my 400 watt veg light here in the future. Ive vegged under 4ft t5 and transitioned to 1ks without an issue before. But now my dilemma is needing to find a more efficient veg light for the tray thinking 315cmh......couple pics of t5 to 1k plants
I'd be curious as well how that led to hid transition works out. I'm actually looking at replacing my 400 watt veg light here in the future. Ive vegged under 4ft t5 and transitioned to 1ks without an issue before. But now my dilemma is needing to find a more efficient veg light for the tray thinking 315cmh......couple pics of t5 to 1k plants
Maybe it's less of an issue in a SOG than when growing bushes? That'd be nice to know!!
dank.Frank
dank.Frank
thinking a par meter may help, even if it was borrowed for a few days. Let me explain what happened to me.
In my led veg area test situation i went from two t5 fixtures that had 6 bulbs a fixture, 6500k at 54w a bulb. I swapped in 2 mars hydro tsl2000 in the same area. i had the led light within 2ft of canopy. I knew it was bright, but it wasnt until i stuck the par meter at the canopy i learned how bright it was. i had to dimm the lights to 60% or so to reach 500pfd or umol or whatever the reading is. plants where getting to much light prior.
with that said maybe your past soil nutrient mixes are not sufficient enough today with the new lighting? try dimming back the lights. I can send my par meter if you want?
i still wanna get 2 of those 500w cmh fixtures. i think 2 of those could hammer down a 4x8 veg area pretty well
just a thought
In my led veg area test situation i went from two t5 fixtures that had 6 bulbs a fixture, 6500k at 54w a bulb. I swapped in 2 mars hydro tsl2000 in the same area. i had the led light within 2ft of canopy. I knew it was bright, but it wasnt until i stuck the par meter at the canopy i learned how bright it was. i had to dimm the lights to 60% or so to reach 500pfd or umol or whatever the reading is. plants where getting to much light prior.
with that said maybe your past soil nutrient mixes are not sufficient enough today with the new lighting? try dimming back the lights. I can send my par meter if you want?
i still wanna get 2 of those 500w cmh fixtures. i think 2 of those could hammer down a 4x8 veg area pretty well
just a thought
If I remember correctly, when HGLED posted the PPFD numbers, they were about half what she was expecting. I could be wrong on that, but, it seems like that was the case.
She gave me light distance based on number of hours to achieve a maximum photosynthetic rate, more or less - how I translated to layman's terms what she was telling me. It WOULD be interesting to have some hard in house data about what sort of light foot print I'm getting in the soil bed at different places.
She was adamant that the plants could receive TOO MUCH light and respond negatively as a result. Personally, I find if I keep the light as close as was suggested by the manufacturer, the plants don't seem to like it. If I hang the panel like a more traditional grow light - 10 -18" - then the plants seem to really enjoy this carnival spectrum. They grow rather quickly....a bit flimsy - but that is in part, running Sour D crosses and not enough air flow over the plants themselves - that will be addressed before flower, even though I'm just doing SOG, I still want to give them some legs first before flipping.
It is a WHITE light - with reddish/pink hue to it though. It's very odd. But when looking directly at the plants and at the light being cast, it appears, white. You can hold your hand under the panel, and it doesn't cast a shadow. I assume that is the point of even distribution of lights across the panel and the whole ppfd science stuff. I'm curious to see how that plays out across a canopy of flowers.
This is the over all question, to myself, at this point: If I get the soil healthy, will there be any issues? The plants aren't exactly 100% at this point. They look...tired. But, the soil is very exhausted at this point too. I'm not sure what is causing my issues, because I know the soil isn't proper, so in my mind any issue is a result of nutrient deficient soil - not odd plant behavior because of LED or an odd spectrum. It should have been re-amended after the last round, but it wasn't. I just started vegging in it, in order to keep this seed round 100% under the HGLED lights, as I agreed to do when accepting them. That means the clones have been under the XB200 the entire time as well - but off to the side, as you would any clones under a dome, really.
I am amending 1/2 the soil bed today. I still have mothers from the Mochiesel and London Loud growing on one side of the bed, so as I get rooted cuts of each plant, I'm culling the old mothers and making room in the soil bed for the second set of 16 plants.
Once that 1/2 of the soil bed is empty, I'll amend it as well, plant the second set of 16. Hang the second HGLED XB200 - it's still in the box. Vegging these out and the clones has only required the usage of 1 panel.
HONESTLY - I really DO like what I'm seeing and I do think they have potential to do what was claimed. I do think I might be able to hit 2g per watt. Hanging the second panel is going to make that room INSANELY bright. It's weird how bright these things are...or appear to be.
Here in lies the problem. I hadn't really considered this. My end goal for the room, is 2# per cycle. A serious challenge in a 2.5' x 5' space.
HGLED XB200 = 200w x 2 = 400w = 800g, by her claim of 2g per watt. That's still not 2#. I need to hit 2.3 gpw basically, to hit the goal.
Last round, was the first time EVER breaking the 1 gpw barrier...so, I think I'm expecting too much from these LED panels in the first place. If I manage to pull 1# off 400w of LED, I suppose I should be super happy. I'd be happy if I pulled that with a 400w HPS.
32 plants. That's 1 oz per in a 4 per sq ft setting. That's really pushing the limits of a system I think. THE ONLY thing that will make this possible is having the soil bed, and the plants being able to expand a much larger roots system than is truly necessary to grow that single, solitary cola. 1# is 1/2oz colas and I if I recall correctly, that is much more in line with the expectations stated from overgrow.
At the end of the day, it's likely only going to be possible with a monocrop of a very particular cut that performs well in this given system.
I'm betting there is a quick flip mono-cropper is in the London Loud - or in the FAM95 - or the last of the Snow Monkey.
BUT - the truth is - the 12wk Cobalt Haze is a perfect candidate for this style. So is the 11wk Sis/PK. They have the necessary STRETCH. 2.5-3x+ minimum for a successful SOG. I need that stretch to have enough bud sites to get any kind of yield. I'll get a chance to see how the Sis/PK performs this round though.
dank.Frank
She gave me light distance based on number of hours to achieve a maximum photosynthetic rate, more or less - how I translated to layman's terms what she was telling me. It WOULD be interesting to have some hard in house data about what sort of light foot print I'm getting in the soil bed at different places.
She was adamant that the plants could receive TOO MUCH light and respond negatively as a result. Personally, I find if I keep the light as close as was suggested by the manufacturer, the plants don't seem to like it. If I hang the panel like a more traditional grow light - 10 -18" - then the plants seem to really enjoy this carnival spectrum. They grow rather quickly....a bit flimsy - but that is in part, running Sour D crosses and not enough air flow over the plants themselves - that will be addressed before flower, even though I'm just doing SOG, I still want to give them some legs first before flipping.
It is a WHITE light - with reddish/pink hue to it though. It's very odd. But when looking directly at the plants and at the light being cast, it appears, white. You can hold your hand under the panel, and it doesn't cast a shadow. I assume that is the point of even distribution of lights across the panel and the whole ppfd science stuff. I'm curious to see how that plays out across a canopy of flowers.
This is the over all question, to myself, at this point: If I get the soil healthy, will there be any issues? The plants aren't exactly 100% at this point. They look...tired. But, the soil is very exhausted at this point too. I'm not sure what is causing my issues, because I know the soil isn't proper, so in my mind any issue is a result of nutrient deficient soil - not odd plant behavior because of LED or an odd spectrum. It should have been re-amended after the last round, but it wasn't. I just started vegging in it, in order to keep this seed round 100% under the HGLED lights, as I agreed to do when accepting them. That means the clones have been under the XB200 the entire time as well - but off to the side, as you would any clones under a dome, really.
I am amending 1/2 the soil bed today. I still have mothers from the Mochiesel and London Loud growing on one side of the bed, so as I get rooted cuts of each plant, I'm culling the old mothers and making room in the soil bed for the second set of 16 plants.
Once that 1/2 of the soil bed is empty, I'll amend it as well, plant the second set of 16. Hang the second HGLED XB200 - it's still in the box. Vegging these out and the clones has only required the usage of 1 panel.
HONESTLY - I really DO like what I'm seeing and I do think they have potential to do what was claimed. I do think I might be able to hit 2g per watt. Hanging the second panel is going to make that room INSANELY bright. It's weird how bright these things are...or appear to be.
Here in lies the problem. I hadn't really considered this. My end goal for the room, is 2# per cycle. A serious challenge in a 2.5' x 5' space.
HGLED XB200 = 200w x 2 = 400w = 800g, by her claim of 2g per watt. That's still not 2#. I need to hit 2.3 gpw basically, to hit the goal.
Last round, was the first time EVER breaking the 1 gpw barrier...so, I think I'm expecting too much from these LED panels in the first place. If I manage to pull 1# off 400w of LED, I suppose I should be super happy. I'd be happy if I pulled that with a 400w HPS.
32 plants. That's 1 oz per in a 4 per sq ft setting. That's really pushing the limits of a system I think. THE ONLY thing that will make this possible is having the soil bed, and the plants being able to expand a much larger roots system than is truly necessary to grow that single, solitary cola. 1# is 1/2oz colas and I if I recall correctly, that is much more in line with the expectations stated from overgrow.
At the end of the day, it's likely only going to be possible with a monocrop of a very particular cut that performs well in this given system.
I'm betting there is a quick flip mono-cropper is in the London Loud - or in the FAM95 - or the last of the Snow Monkey.
BUT - the truth is - the 12wk Cobalt Haze is a perfect candidate for this style. So is the 11wk Sis/PK. They have the necessary STRETCH. 2.5-3x+ minimum for a successful SOG. I need that stretch to have enough bud sites to get any kind of yield. I'll get a chance to see how the Sis/PK performs this round though.
dank.Frank
The xb200 does seem to work nicely... the chem og I’m smoking now was grown under my one and gave nice dense buds that seemed to finish up flower very quickly... whether that was due to the light or genetics I’m not sure.
Only thing it lacks is heat for this time of year.
This round I’ve put the mars ts1000 next to it in a 1sqm tent to see what happens... looks very bright.
Only thing it lacks is heat for this time of year.
This round I’ve put the mars ts1000 next to it in a 1sqm tent to see what happens... looks very bright.
What small cans would you use DF?
I’m in the same position now and the only thing I can think of is CPU fans or a mod desktop fan
I’m in the same position now and the only thing I can think of is CPU fans or a mod desktop fan
@Genetic Freaked - Nothing less than a CAN50 for me. My weed stank. Have you ever looked into odor socks though? Maybe something like that would work for a more micro stealth type cab.
Normally, I add this back to the entire bed. Last round, I felt got a bit hungry. I've vegged excessively long in the bed and depleted nitrogen supplies. I'm applying the amendment mix to each half this flowering cycle, also in part, because of the super close density of the plants and the demand that will require.
It's on like donkey kong. Veg for a few days and let the roots spread and the plants get firmly in place, and we are off to the races. Finally.
I appreciate the patience everyone has had with me - especially - Karma G, HGLED and Mars Hydro.
dank.Frank
Normally, I add this back to the entire bed. Last round, I felt got a bit hungry. I've vegged excessively long in the bed and depleted nitrogen supplies. I'm applying the amendment mix to each half this flowering cycle, also in part, because of the super close density of the plants and the demand that will require.
It's on like donkey kong. Veg for a few days and let the roots spread and the plants get firmly in place, and we are off to the races. Finally.
I appreciate the patience everyone has had with me - especially - Karma G, HGLED and Mars Hydro.
dank.Frank
@genetic freaked - I now realize that is supposed to be fans. Look into the whisper quiet bathroom ceiling fans by panasonic, if I remember correctly.
dank.Frank
dank.Frank
Df I've used odor socks but they don't really work for whole room operations. I use them strictly o we my intake air now. Can lite 66s for the exhausts for me. Change them every couple cycles to be safe.
Tentative harvest date between March 8-22. Might just squeak out an IC cup entry yet. Yikes.
IF there even is a cup this year. Still no word???
dank.Frank
IF there even is a cup this year. Still no word???
dank.Frank
Df that's a long wait. Idk if I could do it and still be in business
I don't think I'll try the out of country entry this year. It'd be more likely for me if it was in the states.
I don't think I'll try the out of country entry this year. It'd be more likely for me if it was in the states.
OH...WAIT!!!
I almost forgot the money shot. Just so everyone is clear I am using the tech as intended. These plants have been under this spectrum since about the 2nd week of their lives. They started under T8 fluro racks, just because I know that works for germination.
The room is too bright to really stand in and look at very long. But it's that hazy overcast day sort of bright that just makes you wince - even though it's not that bright out. It's sort of odd, but if it does what was promised...
Side note - cleaned and oiled the fan in this picture this evening - I can't even begin to explain the difference. I THOUGHT it used to move a lot more air. It did. It was barely moving comparatively.
dank.Frank
I almost forgot the money shot. Just so everyone is clear I am using the tech as intended. These plants have been under this spectrum since about the 2nd week of their lives. They started under T8 fluro racks, just because I know that works for germination.
The room is too bright to really stand in and look at very long. But it's that hazy overcast day sort of bright that just makes you wince - even though it's not that bright out. It's sort of odd, but if it does what was promised...
Side note - cleaned and oiled the fan in this picture this evening - I can't even begin to explain the difference. I THOUGHT it used to move a lot more air. It did. It was barely moving comparatively.
dank.Frank
