Profiling postal packages.

killabrown420 · Feb 1, 2008

Sorry if I worded that funny, The country in question is Costa Rica. And there I believe they are more worried about whats being shipped out (raw columbian bam bam) then whats coming in.

I think sending usps priority would keep shipping reasonable and not allow the package to sit anywhere long enough to permeate.

The vac sealer is a cheap 50 dollar one but that shouldn't be a concern considering the amt i'm sending.

coop · Feb 1, 2008

killabrown that should work, just make sure your not smoking or nothing when packaging, maybe have someone do the sniff a roo

Julian · Feb 1, 2008

killabrown420 said:
Sorry if I worded that funny,

Nah, was worded fine/precise.Just flakin out, doing couple things at the same time......

The country in question is Costa Rica. And there I believe they are more worried about whats being shipped out (raw columbian bam bam) then whats coming in.

You got it.....so much coming through and out of there it's not even funny..(and, of course, they're in on it all anyway, so :smoke:

.....) Costa Rica one of those places :biglaugh:

I'd still pack right though, would be concerned with someone grabbing it...printed label, business name and return address.etc....)

I think sending usps priority would keep shipping reasonable and not allow the package to sit anywhere long enough to permeate.

Well, maybe, but, make no mistake...it will permeate by the time it gets there, but, IF if was exposed to a dog it would most likely be in US....Note: They might also think it was money if packaged a certain way, so, keep that in mind also.....anything going out those directions they suspect money (currency).....

It will...permeates anything and everything history has shown us....over time..(time, heat,movement contributes I believe)....I'd be more worried about losing it though then a bust...ya know?....I doubt Costa Rican officials would have a coronary over a z of bud..(since they produce like 500,000lbs a year and protect the guys growing it :biglaugh:

...)

The vac sealer is a cheap 50 dollar one but that shouldn't be a concern considering the amt i'm sending.

Well, send it right....maybe cut up into smaller pieces, etc....I'd probably cut into 8th's and put in hem or pockets of something...you know man..could put in food, whatever.....(Lot of countries, as said man, very loose regarding the mail...I've had a lot of shit grabbed.......and, varying things......whenever you have unsupervised, loosely regulated, dirt poor people handling your mail :biglaugh:

, I mean.....it's no surprise :biglaugh:

....

coop · Feb 1, 2008

i think your permeating

Blowstrees · Feb 1, 2008

Good read Irish. Thanks for the info!

acgreenjeans · Feb 2, 2008

Any thought as to how posting something with an "ebay-looking" profile? Auction number on front, posted with paypal postage? Seems that might put it under the radar...

Julian · Feb 2, 2008

Well, as in thread, every single aspect of package profiling can be countered, except source city/state and destinations, and, as always, smell if package gets presented for sniff. No matter what methods are, scent permeates over time, so....

Paypal account (to fund postage) can be created without without valid info....little creativity can also be funded and not lead to you or anyone you know also..(You can't order debit cards for those accounts though, because no valid addresses and I think now they want social to issue cards..)

Issue if countering boils down to source/destination issues, which can't be countered, and, they do pull and open legit packages, so....

Edit: I did see case that were using the eBay branded boxes, (You can order co-branded eBay-USPS boxes for free through eBay account) and, I think what made it suspicious was no eBay related/prepaid label/postage,etc. They have been onto that for a while though, so, same as all above....countering profile, and, again, source issues.

If your going to do something like that key is to make load a lot of clean packages (drop off 20 packages going out, 1-2-3-4 dirty, etc, or better yet, start selling and then start working them in over time, etc, but, also what comes into play is that you will have a problem with certain destinations and continuity, as other/receivers side will see them if often enough and then suspicion comes into play, slap a parcel watch on them, and,your back to square one...

Note: I am well versed on using eBay, extensive experience (maybe 1,000+ dirty packages) but dropped it when I started finding cases popping up that supported they were looking closer.....

Guest · Feb 2, 2008

Julian , I've been reading this thread for a couple days as I was expecting an item or two from SoCal.Info taken from this thread was used to my advantage and everything went smoothly.You sure as hell know your sh*t!!!I'm always happy to read good info.Anytime a package was lost(small amounts) nothing ever came of it, maybe 1% have been MIA.Great reading.PEACE!!!MUCHA!!! :joint:

Tronic · Feb 2, 2008

Julian,

i have no pms yet but when i do you can be assured you'll be recieveing one.

Its amazing the things people think about, at the same time. love ebay. :joint:

have a good day!

Julian · Feb 2, 2008

MUCHA LUCHA said:
Julian , I've been reading this thread for a couple days as I was expecting an item or two from SoCal. Info taken from this thread was used to my advantage and everything went smoothly.

What it's all about brother.....(Being as knowledgeable as possible about your opponent and their methods, (ideally, you become your opponent...applies to everything) and using that to your advantage to "win".....

Glad all went well.......Irish's thread though...I'm just throwing in what I can....

You sure as hell know your sh*t!!!

Years (upon years) of experience and pursuing as much knowledge able it as possible....

I'm always happy to read good info.Anytime a package was lost(small amounts) nothing ever came of it, maybe 1% have been MIA.Great reading.PEACE!!!MUCHA!!!

Well, your good, everything received(has been) but, to put a spin on it......"lost" should be taken as a problem.....(might be, might not), can't risk it though, you know?.....could have been grabbed by someone, or, could have been grabbed and parcel watch slapped on recipient addy's.....you never know, and, even if truly "lost" (which I don't believe in), means it's floating around out there and it will be discovered eventually, with addy........

See, the terrifying thing about mail is, of course, it's unlike any other activity....(IN which we have mobility, a number of options, etc......outdoor growing, sales, delivery, etc....) Mail man, your giving a name and address :biglaugh:

...No name and address attached to an outdoor grow.....indoor ops and sales and deliveries we can take hundreds of countermeasures.......ie: You control 99% of events which could lead to discovery.........

Packages?.....receiver is a "sitting duck"....., and, as above or elsewhere, I mean.....they will investigate so claims of innocence don't fly.....(emails, phone records, evidence of other packages, internal records of previous shipments from same regions, addresses, etc....so......it's unlike any other activity in that respect and a lot riding on every package (because make no mistake....a problem with a single package can lead to everything coming down for some......ie: One should always think: "What if a search warrant was issued today".......what would they see, what would they find, etc.....Example: I do a lot of outdoor, and, while a lot goes many places, UI do hold onto fair amounts for ps. When done?...scales, bags, sealers, etc, everything gets the fuck outta my presence....

Mail, despite what trolls and others will state....it's the riskiest form of all activities, should be taken the most serious....one should be as educated as possible on every aspect possible....it's the least forgiving of all...(as far as "mistakes".....ie: anything else, you can make 1-5-10 mistakes......this?....single mistake can bring down the whole show...As above.....sure, might not be enough to do any damage, might readily walk.....but what will the warrant uncover?, what about legal fee's.....what about phone records?....

There are a lot of ways to counter certain things...(story altered a little.. :smoke:

)...Had a foaf, he had a problem, but, see, package was sent to a guy he "knew from the bar" who he was letting stay with him...(duffel bag with clothes not his size in basement next to blanket and pillows to prove it....) I also believe there was a note in the package in question addressing to the guy, which specifically said don't let the foaf know he was getting anything sent to his address, or he'd throw him out if he knew.....

Anyway...just an example...... :smoke:

Julian · Feb 2, 2008

Tronic said:
Julian,

i have no pms yet but when i do you can be assured you'll be recieveing one.

Its amazing the things people think about, at the same time. love ebay.

have a good day!

Well, alter it and post, might be something people might draw from....

Nah, I haven't used eBay for couple years now (2?).....they're onto that.....

Referencing the above though for people regarding eBay? Problem addressed was continuity.

Imagine if you will:Someone sends out eBay packages, from, let's pick somewhere....let's say Houston. Okay, but, they send 7 packages, all to , let's say Ohio.

Not 7 packages to 7 different cities........not 7 packages to 7 different states.......7 packages to same city and state.

Problem is it's against statistical averages that one would post 7 items and all purchases happen to be within a 10 mile radius of each other....get it? :smoke:

...so, goes back to actually doing auctions...(ie: You drop 10 packages and all to completely different locations, different size packages, different weights,etc....(remember also points of interest.....your end, other end......)

Lost train of thought...anyway, yeah, I ran that for a while, worked well, no losses but changed it all up when I started seeing them grabbing things.....

Julian · Feb 2, 2008

Registration of domain.....hosting, etc, all might require verified payment sources (credit card....)

That is the one beauty of eBay...can start account, can make paypal account with all completely bogus info.....(and before anyone disputes that......go try it yourself :smoke:

...)

You use another account with correct info to order supplies, and, you sell valid things to fund the paypal account...ie: you register account as joe blow, 123 main street, you sell an item for 50 bucks, person who buys pay pals you the 50 bucks , you have now funded account to purchase and print your postage :smoke:

No personal info needed :smoke:

Or one could set up a business selling bulk bags of activated carbon :smoke:

.....

Trivia: a single gram of activated carbon has a surface area of up to 6 tennis courts(1500 square meters of surface area in a single gram) :smoke:

Tronic · Feb 4, 2008

ok here goes:

Basically, i totally know and understand teh rules of ebay and paypal (extensively) and was gonna touch on how they could be effectively used for a "legit" transfer of funds/postage to get certain um..... 'valuable'.... packages to destinations intermittently.

totally agree with you on the whole statistical average phenominon, however it's too easy to set up accounts with legit yet clean business addys and go from there.

im sure you catch my drift. not to b used continually, but occasionally its execptional.....

anyway, so much to always learn and take in, always.

stay safe ya hear

Julian · Feb 5, 2008

Well, nothing can be done continually.......everything changes...and, have to try and do everything you can to be aware of what changes are taking place in real time and adjust approach accordingly.

In the end, as said, I mean, the problem all boils down to source and destinations, which can't be countered.

Problem is though, lot of people fall into a comfort zone because something "has always worked".......Famous last words (among many :biglaugh:

....)

Nothing works indefinitely...

Julian · Feb 5, 2008

People should also try to be realistic and stay grounded as far as what they can and can't do......

I get a lot of packages sliced open.....smaller cuts, maybe 2-3", most likely made by knife or scissors, when they suspect something and dog doesn't hit on it. (They do the same on train and bus lines, Amtrak,Greyhound when they board them at certain points in the country.(There are actually 2 contradictory laws regarding manipulation and handling of luggage so as to try and get a release of air from it.....

Anyway, so, a lot of people talk about what they can, and can't do......but, the written law and actual practice are 2 different things....

Mail, packages........could they just walk a dog over the belt(s) instead of screening?, well, in my opinion, I'm sure they do, and then work the story to come out to what is legally acceptable..........ie: They say the spotted package and noticed because of this and that, and, then presented to dog when enough to support a reasonable suspicion....Unless you were there and witnessed it, really can't argue such...but, I know I have packages sliced open often.....period, fact, and, anyone familiar with shipping knows a clean precise cut is not shipping damage :smoke:

...(Unless it was accidentally placed on a boxcutter :smoke:

...)

Same goes with all aspects,......."They can't do that"....well, they do, all the time.

Like all professions........you have those with ethics, standards, principles....

And those with none. :smoke:

kriptoper · Feb 13, 2008

The postal svce processes nearly 703 million pieces per day, the odds are in favor, if you think about it. Just be smart.

Julian · Feb 13, 2008

Unfortunately, the shipment your package is a part of may be only 500-2,000 pieces, depending on specifics, of which 50-300 may be pulled for further inspection.

Edit: Few seem to be aware of the scope of package screening and the purposes, assuming only for drugs. While topic has been geared towards this topic (green), it hasn't been addressed that they are looking for 100 other things at the same time..(hundreds of prohibited items, from porn through ammunition through agriculture and more, forged postage, incendiary devices, currency,etc, etc....)

jollygt · Mar 17, 2008

they should have made you head of security great job julian

Jim Rockford · Mar 26, 2008

I guess being one who has seen 3 seed orders not reach any friends in the last couple months in my city, I have to wonder if they are under the eye of the man. Oddly, we live in a place where the Pig Chief hates weed more than meth and seems to be the only thing he cares about.

Great information in the post, and the post confirmed what I witnessed once. That was a package getting delivered to a friend with drugs in it (weed). The package was delivered by a guy in a white truck, not his normal mail man. He was expecting it, so his house was clean of all weed or pipes (he doesn't like other drugs either, so nothing else there). The package did not have his name on it. 3 hours after delivery 2 dogs and 8 cops in riot gear busted into his house. After getting tossed around and having his house torn up, no charges were made against him. The package was unopened and he said he didn't know why it showed up. Besides having to repair his furniture and eating the loss, he didn't even have to go to court or pay a single fee and got to make the cops look like the little boys they really are behind all that armor.

headiez247 · Feb 20, 2009

Julian said:
Some of the other things missing are overnight packages, person to person, along with the labeling (handwritten), also, sizes play a big factor especially with overnight, because most overnighted are documents (business to person, person to business)

One has to remember the typical flow and origin of packages......

If one buys something from legitimate source, even if you want it asap, your not going to go too expensive on shipping.

Also, see, most overlook that with a lot of packages,tracking, overnight, signature confirmation, registered, leave a papertrail and can be tracked....(ie: Searching through cases, they easily look up previous deliveries, and sources to determine patterns....) A lot of people ship on a consistent basis and trail left only strengthens the case when investigation made...

And it will be finally made......mail can't be used indefinitely.....Just can't...doesn't work.......and, as time goes on, just gets harder...

Now, how all factors come together is also a problem because there are a lot of cases in which sniff's come back negative, even multiple sniff's coming back negative, but, based on other aspects discovered, they still get their warrants for the package....

They do check quite a bit of info in some cases, in addition, regardless of, and even before and after the exposure to dogs.....(ie: Where sent from, how paid, check with local carrier if address and name are correct and valid, check receiving end carrier for address and name, check history to and from both addresses,etc...)

It should also be noted there is no shortage of cases that illustrate prints were taken from package to try and identify the sender...(ie: In most cases they want the sender of the product much more than the receiver......)

As in another thread...most seem to think an individual responsible for screening, when in reality it's quite a production, and, making it worse is that the schedules vary, similar to border and customs...(What they have been doing for a while now is all customs agents at border crossings have their schedules changed on a moments notice consistently to try and prevent dirty agents from having the ability to get loads through.....) Same with the mail....so that there is never a pattern of where and when they will be doing parcel interdiction at certain facilities...(They are also always available on call for all facilities if they turn something up....)

Lot of people try to send things different times, and different ways because they have preconceived notions about when teams are working at a site, but, as above...there really is no fixed schedule for any facility....(I posted a link somewhere about a case they were doing incoming from west coast at a 2:30am arrival Saturday morning.......)

Can be weekdays, weekends, morning, evening, early morning......really is no fixed schedule for them......(done for reason above....)

And, that's the bottom line about mailing.....it's not even 50/50 odds anymore....

Seeds?...not a problem.......z's or less?......not really an issue.....q'pers?....still not bad.......1/2's-p's?....starting to be an issue......p's or more?.....really starting to be a serious problem and not worth the risk.....

If doing smaller......greater the chances it won't be persued, and, as above, fake names and addresses in some (many) cases the reason it might get stopped...might assist in reasonable suspicion...

Cash also sought as much as product...no reason to do anything other than money orders....even with larger amounts.....

Cases are truly endless and the good thing about reviewing cases is you often get info left out of news articles..(ie: specific details of operation...)

Btw…….

Part of that profiling for West to East and South to North for product is Hispanic sounding names and African American sounding names …..

(Try sending a package from SouthWest to Midwest or East coast fitting criteria and names of “Jesus Garcia Moralez” and see what happens ….or Henry Lee Jackson to Latonya Jenkins …..)

I have also seen packages that did not meet criteria and were business sent opened and searched….(I send and receive a LOT of packages…….everything I buy is through web these days……..I had had many packages opened…legally and not ….)

The point of my input is to make people aware because I know a lot of people send packages……

You want to send something?...send a couple “test” packages first and see how it works out……make yourself aware of efforts, of cases, of profile, and, switch up your test packages every way you can before you start your schedule ……You might be surprised at what you find……

Textbook Express case

East to West cash

DeMoss case is frequently referenced in others

Frequently mentioned case and also cross referencing of package history to address

Parcel Interdiction Team services 200 to 250 package and freight delivery locations within Orange County

Old case, but, good…seizure during training session at UPS

Consistent packages from West Coast trigger a parcel watch..

Another….

Yet another…..very small amount…

Half of an LE text….one of my latest recommended….

FedEx package…..

Lot of details in case…

Priority Saturday and paid in cash

Yet another….

Extremely interesting on many levels….….

Really endless cases and resources available….one could spend weeks reading and still never come close to finishing…lot of material out there…..could do endless links…….

I’ll leave anyone with an interest to do their own research …

Mail is not as simple as easy as most believe these days....with odd's less than 50/50......

Regarding Express Mail?.....

Another search of interest would be "Express Mail Narcotics Profiling"

Express Mail use overview. Page 2.

Good information but a little over paranoid. If what you said is true, statistically I should of been busted years ago. Talk of inspectors picking up packages and shaking it to see if the weight feels right etc.

Why hasn't anyone mentioned how many millions of packages go thru the US each day and what the odds are of something going down? The shaking/inspection happens AFTER suspicion has come up due to a bad packing job or a random dog. There isn't a guy picking up every other package and shaking it thinking "hmmm i wonder if there is pot in here"

It was also stated not to use hispanic names and something was said about "try sending a package from LA to NYC with Latoya Brown as the name, see if it goes thru" - I guarantee if I sent 100 packages to a Latoya Brown, all 100 would go thru.

I'm not advocating everyone go and ship stuff, but I think some of the paranoia around here is extreme and people read way into things sometimes

Do private not USPS

Package it CORRECTLY

Should be fine.

Julian why do you use so many periods... in... all... of... your... posts...

Profiling postal packages.

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shut the fuck up Donny