Breeding a Cambodian auto

Sachiel · Feb 23, 2020

Hey teide,

you have a really intresting project going on here. Actually I´ve been working on a similar project for a year now. I´m working on a Mango Thai (RSC) x Russian Auto CBD(Nativ Canna) for 50 degrees north. So I figured I could share my notes so far... :tiphat:

I advise you to focus selection in the F1 on stem rub smell, leaf expression and structure leaning towards the cambodian. Looking throught my F1´s I found out that the Thai´s terpene profile often is a good indicator for the Thai´s High as well.
Otherwise you will have to flower out/dry/de-seed/smoke way too many plants only to find out that most of them don´t really have thc... :smoke:

For your outdoor environment, do you need autos with an early onset of flower or just as quick finishing as possible?

Backcrossing will be neccessary to get rid of undesireable rudi traits like early ripening/dying of bracts (prone to mold) and to lock in aroma and high, so either you keep the mother cambo around or you make some pure cambo seed using a male Mekong or GN Khmer. (just for the sake of preservation I´d make sure to have plenty of pure cambo seeds in the freezer)
My first step in this project was to reproduce both parental lines seperately. That way you get to know the strains e.g. terpene profiles, structure, (flower-)developementetc wich makes breeding for specific traits in a cross way easier. :yes:

Another tip of mine: as soon as you have auto males shedding pollen, make sure to collect as much of it as you can and preserve it in small batches. This will come in handy for pollinating long flowering sativas because the timing can be a pain in the butt!

...60 degrees north...you have my respect already teide

Greetings

gorilla ganja · Feb 24, 2020

That's some good info there Sachiel. Thanks for sharing.
Do you have some pics of the Russian Auto CBD(Nativ Canna), I have some of those as well.

Peace GG

Sachiel · Feb 25, 2020

Hey GG,

there is lots of variation in the Russian Auto both in leaf structure and terpene profile. I don´t have pics of full plants but I might find some fotocopies of leaves. I only used them as pollen donors so I didn´t think about taking pictures of any of them :dunno:

ngakpa · Feb 26, 2020

Sachiel said:
Backcrossing will be neccessary to get rid of undesireable rudi traits like early ripening/dying of bracts (prone to mold)

if the Russian Auto CBD is prone to mold, that's far from ideal ---

seems likely to indicate bad breeding work imo

Ruderal plants should have excellent resistance to mold, other diseases, and pests - as well as to extremes of climate (drought, heat, cold, rain etc.)

teide · Feb 29, 2020

ngakpa said:
hi

no worries at all, hope that didn't come across like a harangue

worth noting here:

some tropical strains and/or plants can be day-neutral

that's a technical term for auto-flowering

in other words, day-length isn't necessarily a relevant factor here

Is there any chance a cambodian or thai landrace could have auto tendencies, ngakpa? Mekong haze or Khmer gold? Or maybe a Lao? It would sure be nice to benefit from that when breeding the cambodian auto.

ngakpa · Mar 3, 2020

Equatorial landraces can be day-neutral ("auto"), yes - but that doesn't necessarily mean they're fast. Most are 6 months from seed to harvest.

romanoweed · Mar 3, 2020

hää??? what?
So, IF i have such a plant, i can easily start in window at first March and harvest around 1st September? Do you know any Strain, wich is aviable now, wich has that trait pronounced? Needed.

First time i heard that said concretely. ok, lets search for it. And from wich latitude on this seems to appear?

Does per Example Kiona Genetics use that trick too. I heard they use Light deprivation?

chilliwilli · Mar 4, 2020

Hi how are the Mekong haze, cambodian and kc45 doing?

teide · Mar 4, 2020

Hi Chili,
The kc45 are thriving. No preflowers yet, as assumed. I am sure they are not auto. The cambodians are vegging and show broadish leaves so far. Hope that changes as they grow. In good health, though.
The Mekong will not sprout..

Douglas.Curtis · Mar 5, 2020

Sachiel said:
Another tip of mine: as soon as you have auto males shedding pollen, make sure to collect as much of it as you can and preserve it in small batches. This will come in handy for pollinating long flowering sativas because the timing can be a pain in the butt!

This is great advice!

I have the instructions I use for storing pollen at the end of my feminizing tutorial. Have now used pollen 6+ years old I stored this way, and it works just fine. You should be able to get 10+ years of viability out of your pollen, making timing significantly easier.
:tiphat:

teide · Mar 5, 2020

Douglas.Curtis said:
Seal the mixed pollen in small containers, foil or plastic sealed pouches or (preferred) 1.5ml centrifuge tubes.

LABEL your containers carefully, using the specific plant name, date and any other information you believe you'll remember later. (Because there's a good chance you won't)

Seal the containers in a thermos and keep it in your freezer. The thermos acts as an additional thermal protection barrier, just in case you have a freezer issue years down the line. It also makes transferring pollen from one place to another a safe operation. Just be sure to keep the thermos at freezing temps, and to limit the amount of time outside the freezer

some great tips here, Douglas.Curtis!

teide · Mar 5, 2020

I will follow your tips for harvesting and storing pollen. I agree that stored cambodian landrace pollen would be more practical to use in stead of keeping a cambodian mother available. so far I only have feminized cambodian seeds. my Mekong haze regular seeds will just not germinate..
If I ever get any pure cambodian pollen I will be sure to store several separate batches in the freezer, they will be very precious.
I will be sure to harvest pollen from the final fully auto generation in f3 or f4, for other crosses in the future.

troutman · Mar 5, 2020

This pic I found online may help. Just replace the Northern Lights with your Cambodian. :tiphat:

Creating an Auto

teide · Mar 5, 2020

thanks troutman, this is how I am planning on doing it, only with a few parallel twists.
I am going to do this route in your picture, it will be a long procedure by itself.
the first outcome will be a fully auto version of the cambodian. but with quite a bit of possible geno/pheno from the auto donor plant. maybe 50%, maybe less or more, hard to predict.

then begins the purging process. backcrossing the f3 or f4 auto to the cambodian photo and repeating the whole process once. then a second time. and finally a third time. by then there will be very little genes from the auto donor plant left in the final auto cambodian.
this will be an even longer process in total, many years, pheeew..!

the twist will be backcrossing from f2 auto to cambo clone, in addition to interbreeding f2 to make f3. this is a shortcut that will save me time, considering I plan on backcrossing at least three times.
the drawback is that bad traits may not be discovered in the f2 generation and passed on, only to show up later. I might get lucky though. either way I will be selecting onwards in the f3 and f4 generation before backcrossing those.

so I will have three different parallel auto breeding procedures:

one, as in your photo, crossing auto and cambo only once, then interbreeding autos down to f3.
my first homebred cambodian auto. ready by the end of this year, I hope.

two, finding an auto male that shows up in f2 and backcross to a photo cambo clone. and repeating this cycle three times, to purge the unwanted genes from the auto and increase the gene pool from the cambo.

three, backcrossing in three cycles, but from f3 or f4, with a greater population of autos to select phenos from. this is the safest, but by far the longest process.
my final, purer, homebred auto cambodian. ready by the time I reach middle age.

troutman · Mar 6, 2020

The F2 generation is where a person can find novel plants to breed with and where I recommend you look.

Note: Breeding is a numbers game. So more plants do equal better chances at finding a keeper.

Good Luck.

Sachiel · Jul 9, 2020

Hey Teide,

how is your project coming along? I read somewhere that you have F1's already? What Cambo did you use for these and did you pop any of those yet?

teide · Jul 9, 2020

Hi, Sachiel,
I used a feminized nonreleased Cambodian from Khalifa Genetics. As those seeds are fem, I used a male auto for the f1 cross. The f1s are beautiful so far, all displaying narrow leaves. I have seven f1s growing. They are about 50cm tall, full of vigour, but no preflowers yet.
I hope to find both a male and female in this first round, so I can get on to making f2s.

My Khmer gold seeds are in a friend's fridge for storage until later, along with abc seeds.
They will be shipped when covid restrictions have loosened up. When tourist flights increase, there is more post and a slightly smaller chance of my seeds being seized by customs.
Can't wait to get my coveted Khmer gold seeds!

teide · Jul 16, 2020

So far all my f1s are thriving and already reaching their height limit. I've bent them to avoid hitting the lights. They are as vigorous as the Kc45 f1s were, quite tall already, and very sativa in structure. These f1s are easily surpassing their mother in size. Wonder if the mother is shorter because she is grown intentionally in a small pot to contain her size, or if this is a result of hybrid vigour. Already at the preflower stage they are certainly taller than their auto father. Can hybrid vigour result in bigger offspring even if the auto parent is small? Or will the offspring be somewhere in the middle, smaller than the biggest parent, but bigger than the smallest?

All my seven f1s are female. Damn. I thought that I'd get at least one male.. I have just soaked ten more seeds, hoping for a male to show up. Not sure if I'll have time to use its pollen on these seven f1s, so tomorrow I'll make a small batch of sts and reverse one of them, just in case.

gorilla ganja · Jul 22, 2020

Any pics of the parent plants as well as the F1 you have created?

Peace GG

teide · Jul 22, 2020

When I learn how to erase exif data I could upload some photos. Didn't take any photos yet, and now the cambo mother is a sad sight harvested and revegging. So it would have to be of the f1s.

Breeding a Cambodian auto

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