Diary PCBuds mini-grow

f-e · Nov 30, 2021

In a round-about way, light opens the stomata. The effect is strong. Lights out, they shut.
High light, means wider openings. This is how we see water issues when we pump up the lighting. The openings are forced wider and fluid loss occurs. Making them look dry at the root, when they are wet. They just can't hold on to the water that comes up. The easiest solution is to raise the RH. Alternately lower the light. Maybe the temperature and airflow. There are also dietary components of interest, but I think that's reaching. High K or low S won't do any favours. You will also find lower EC helps water move better, and warming the roots, if you dare. Oddly, warming the plant aids water movement through it, not through transpiration, but simply warmer water moves better. So cooling the room to reduce losses might not be as effective as imagined. Often to increase calcium uptake we are best to lower the calcium present in solution and warm the plant. The water is simply more fluid, and so you get more calcium carried into the plant, not less.

I wouldn't concern yourself with co2 too much. I have sealed crops in with polythene before, because the RH is so important that without it, co2 levels don't matter. I felt sure they would suffocate but it just never happens.

exploziv · Nov 30, 2021

Could the situation you are describing present itself as a Ca def, f-e .
And how raising ph would help with that? Is that a typo? If not tell me more. I started to have problems with my plants about same time I raisem my led lights power. And it showed like Mg and Ca defs, the Mg i fixed but Ca doesn't seem to want to be fixed, no matter how much I feed or foliar spray it.
Sorry for hijacking the thread for a bit, mate. If it bothers you just say and I will clean this.

PCBuds · Nov 30, 2021

exploziv said:
Sorry for hijacking the thread for a bit, mate. If it bothers you just say and I will clean this.

No, that's fine.
I can get my learnin on. Lol

Itsmychoice · Nov 30, 2021

Ph matters.

PCBuds · Nov 30, 2021

Calcium is weird on the PH chart.

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In Hydroponics, calcium is absorbed at PH 5.8 and below.

In soil, calcium is absorbed at PH 6.5 and above.

So, how many handfuls of seedling starting mix (60%-70% sphagnum peat) and dead roots do I need to add to my soil less Coco/Perlite to convert it to soil?

That's why I feed my nute solution in at PH 5.8 and let it drift up to PH 6.5 in the planters reservoir.
That way I cover the range so that hopefully calcium can be absorbed somehow.

I kind of have a transitional SIP setup, and don't really know if it counts as Hydroponics or Soil.

It seems odd to me to think that if I throw a couple of teaspoons of peat moss into my coco, I now have to keep my PH above 6.5 to accommodate calcium.

Itsmychoice · Nov 30, 2021

I treat coco as hydroponics but i think you are likely to have problems with your mix sitting in what should be its runoff. Temperature of the feeding is just as important

PCBuds · Nov 30, 2021

Itsmychoice said:
I treat coco as hydroponics but i think you are likely to have problems with your mix sitting in what should be its runoff. Temperature of the feeding is just as important

I just checked the PH of the planter and it has risen to 6.36 and the plant used about 1/3 of the 2 liters of the solution that I fed it yesterday.
I fed the nute solution in at the stalk at PH 5.8

I may be getting some salt buildup in my planter by not having runoff, but I like the way I have a huge PH swing to allow for nutrient uptake whether my planter is soil or hydro.

f-e · Nov 30, 2021

exploziv said:
Could the situation you are describing present itself as a Ca def, f-e .
And how raising ph would help with that? Is that a typo? If not tell me more. I started to have problems with my plants about same time I raisem my led lights power. And it showed like Mg and Ca defs, the Mg i fixed but Ca doesn't seem to want to be fixed, no matter how much I feed or foliar spray it.
Sorry for hijacking the thread for a bit, mate. If it bothers you just say and I will clean this.

If the plant deflates, the stomata are closed and fluid movement low. So yes, Ca isn't being carried along much.

Typo? I can't find where I said that. RH perhaps?

I'm finding the stripes I get on my leafs, generally seen as Mg, are coming in two colours. Yellow tinted for Mg, but white tinted when Ca is also low. White shades to the colour loss mean I can't fix it with Mg alone, I need Ca also. It's early days with this. A bit early to say it's fact, but I'm near asking for peer review. I need to initiate the problem a few more times still, but right now, I'm happier trying to fix my grow than mess it about. I'm back in terra with new feeds, so not confident enough to be inducing and fixing problems. I'm still learning my baselines.

exploziv · Nov 30, 2021

Yeah sorry mate I was probably high as fk and misread RH as PH. Your post was very informative, sorry for misreading it and creating useless sidetalk.

PCBuds · Nov 30, 2021

f-e said:
In a round-about way, light opens the stomata. The effect is strong. Lights out, they shut.
High light, means wider openings. This is how we see water issues when we pump up the lighting. The openings are forced wider and fluid loss occurs. Making them look dry at the root, when they are wet. They just can't hold on to the water that comes up. The easiest solution is to raise the RH. Alternately lower the light. Maybe the temperature and airflow. There are also dietary components of interest, but I think that's reaching. High K or low S won't do any favours. You will also find lower EC helps water move better, and warming the roots, if you dare. Oddly, warming the plant aids water movement through it, not through transpiration, but simply warmer water moves better. So cooling the room to reduce losses might not be as effective as imagined. Often to increase calcium uptake we are best to lower the calcium present in solution and warm the plant. The water is simply more fluid, and so you get more calcium carried into the plant, not less.

I wouldn't concern yourself with co2 too much. I have sealed crops in with polythene before, because the RH is so important that without it, co2 levels don't matter. I felt sure they would suffocate but it just never happens.

I was far too wasted to comprehend that last night. Lol
I read it 4 times, that didn't help. Lol

f-e said:
... The easiest solution is to raise the RH. Alternately lower the light. Maybe the temperature and airflow...

I decided to turn down my lights to around 6 amps.
That should raise the RH and lower the temperature.

I also increased my lights out time from 6 to 7.5 hours.

I will watch my plant to see when she starts to fall asleep.

I figure that if she starts to get sleepy without collapsing, then that's where I want her to be.

I'm reading 17,000 lux at the top of the plant now and 3,000-19,000 lux around the plant.

I only have convection for airflow and the small fan running for circulation.
The fan is aimed up over the plant to reduce the wind on the plant.

f-e said:
... You will also find lower EC helps water move better, and warming the roots, if you dare.

I did water down my solution a bit and only notice a tiny bit of what looks like nute burn on the main cola, so I think I'm OK.

f-e said:
I wouldn't concern yourself with co2 too much. I have sealed crops in with polythene before, because the RH is so important that without it, co2 levels don't matter. I felt sure they would suffocate but it just never happens.

There's not too much that I can do with the CO2 levels, but it's good to know that there is more in the closet than in the rest of the house.

And knowing that she shouldn't suffocate from lack of airflow is good to know.

I'm not going to mess with anything except the light levels and timing.

I think that the only real problem with my plant right now is just too much light.

I can take my time and grow this plant slowly.
I don't care when it finishes.

I might not grow it until May 1st, but I might let her get really ripe.

I'll wait for the leaves to turn autumn

colors.

She is looking pretty good, I think,.. and she's praying at the top, so she must want the light ?

PCBuds · Nov 30, 2021

f-e

My contactor has decided to start crapping out on me.

It's still cracking on and off with a thud, but when it turns on, it doesn't always make a full connection or something and the amp readings aren't equal.

Then yesterday I got no contact at all on one of the switches and my amps read zero.

I turned it on and off a few times then it started working again.

I think that I've got dirty contacts in my contactor. lol

It is a cheap Chinese version and even the writing is in Chinese.

I'm thinking that they used crappy material for the contact points and they are either carbonized or vaporized?

I was debating on whether or not to take it apart and try to clean/refurbish the contacts, but if I break it I don't have a replacement.

So I'm thinking about buying this one...

Do you think it might be better quality?
Everything is made in China now but this may be built better.

And when it says 40 amp, is that 40 amp for each switch or 40 amps for the entire contactor?

I only had a maximum of 4.5 amps running through each of the three switches.

Does my DC voltage have anything to do with it?
I don't think I have a huge surge current, because I am switching the power supply's output on and off and LEDS don't conduct too great until they warm up.

PCBuds · Nov 30, 2021

I found this one on eBay.
It appears to be exactly the same except for the name.

And it ships from the US, so it shouldn't be stuck on a boat for three months. Lol

The next step up goes to about $50 then into the hundreds of $.

PCBuds · Nov 30, 2021

I bought the one from eBay.
It's a few bucks cheaper and appears to be exactly the same.
It should be here by Christmas.

exploziv · Nov 30, 2021

Have you looked at SSR's? Do you need the 3 circuits separated? A 20A AC solid state relay is probably much cheaper, efficient and safer.
Or just use a single pole contactor. Those should be cheaper too. If you are switching the PSU's the DC amps don't matter. Also, 3 regular relays could easily handle less than 5 amps each. Much cheaper. They may fail a bit faster than a contactor but also they would only only fail one at a time, so cheaper to replace.
I am a guy that overbuilds things for safety, but in this case you don't really need a contactor made for 3phrase AC and thousands of watts to handle such small load.

PCBuds · Nov 30, 2021

Awe Shit..
I just placed the order.

exploziv said:
Have you looked at SSR's?

No I didn't think of that.

exploziv said:
Do you need the 3 circuits separated?

Just 2.
I need to separate my two PSU's

exploziv said:
A 20A AC solid state relay is probably much cheaper, efficient and safer.

And easier too !!

exploziv said:
If you are switching the PSU's the DC amps don't matter.

I'm not switching the PSUs on and off.
I leave them on all the time and switch the 20 VDC output on and off.

I figure that my cheap Chineseium PSUs will last longer if they reach operating temperature and stay there.

They use 5 Watts each at idle with no output.

exploziv said:
Also, 3 regular relays could easily handle less than 5 amps each. Much cheaper. They may fail a bit faster than a contactor but also they would only only fail one at a time, so cheaper to replace.
I am a guy that overbuilds things for safety, but in this case you don't really need a contactor made for 3phrase AC and thousands of watts to handle such small load.

It was f-e that talked me into a contactor.
Blame him. Lol

I do like the fact that I can switch my entire house on and off with a contactor.
That's fricken Cool !!!

I'm pretty sure that I can fix my misbehaving contactor and keep it as a backup.
I get to investigate and figure out why it failed.
That will be interesting and I should learn something.
I'll have to break the cover off.
It's a non serviceable part.
That's not going to stop me from servicing it. Lol

exploziv · Nov 30, 2021

It would make much more sense to switch off the supplies than switch the dc loads. But I see you sometimes end up doing stuff completely backwards so yeah I won't push more.

PCBuds · Nov 30, 2021

exploziv said:
It would make much more sense to switch off the supplies than switch the dc loads. But I see you sometimes end up doing stuff completely backwards so yeah I won't push more.

Yeah, I see things from a different angle. Lol

I had a freind in 1980 whos dad owned a roller skating rink.
They had a raft of power amps to run the sound system.
Something like a dozen amps worth $700 each.
They kept blowing up their amps so they called in a technician to try to figure it out.
The technician said to leave the amps turned on and just turn them down when they aren't being used.
That fixed the problem and they stopped popping amps.

I took a computer course in 1996 and the teacher said to leave the our computers on and turn the monitors off to help the computer last long enough to be replaced when they are outdated instead of when they fail.

My electronics teacher in 1980 said the same thing.
An incandescent bulb always burns out when you first flick on the switch because colder components conduct electricity better, creating a surge which burns out the bulb.

I'm only wasting 10 Watts for 7.5 hours every day.
That's a lot cheaper than a new PSU.

skmatzwonk · Nov 30, 2021

Yes, you need a contactor. It is very high voltage, so it will blow the timer. Even 200w CFL's can do this. But why bother with wiring, and the possiblility of fires, when pre-built ballasts are going dirt cheap. Here we have a ballast starting at £4.40 It even has variable outputs 400w - 600w. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384547170801?hash=item5988cc29f1:g:DIUAAOSwmDFhkr~j

Hydroponics contactor relays too. I see what you are saying. These look more expensive. Maybe £40? That is about the going rate. You can get this over the counter at your local Hydroponics shop, so you need not go through all the postage nonsense. But, did you enter the correct search words for this? And is it worth risking fires? These things are complicated to wire up. IMO, the extra cost could save you life and limb. Anyway, just look here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...+hydroponics+&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=15

PCBuds · Nov 30, 2021

skmatzwonk said:
Yes, you need a contactor. It is very high voltage, so it will blow the timer.

My contactor is only 120VAC but you are correct that it draws a lot of power (amps) when it engages because of the Honkingly Huge coil that opens and closes the contacts with enough force to scare the hell out of me when it goes off and I'm nearby.

But, once the contactor makes or breaks the contact, it stops drawing current.
It doesn't need to be energized to hold the contacts either on or off.

EDIT: My contactor is drawing 2.5 Watts not completely nothing.
So 20 milliamps at 120VAC....

So I won't overheat my timer, but I could fuse the contacts in the timer closed or burn them out so the contactor won't engage.

That hasn't happened and I'm pretty sure that running momentary surge to activate the contactor is better than a constant current running through it to switch my PSUs on with the full current of the PSUs running through the timer.

skmatzwonk · Nov 30, 2021

Yeah, ok. The overload welds the timer contact points together (inside the timer) or fuses the electronic timer in no time. Not only do these break and not go off, but the copper strips could start a fire.

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