Going vertically - few questions

2tm23 · Oct 27, 2011

Hi guys

Soon enough ill be growing in one of these*http://www.hesistore.com/acatalog/agrowtent.html *and would need a piece of advice about watering the system. Ill be growing in rockwool slabs (5 plants/slab) but cant really find the info how to water these slabs positioned vertically. How often and how long for should i let water go through the system? Well I know that pump should run as long as i see the water coming out the bottom of the slabs but i duno how often...

Also are any of these values correct?

Indica's Seedlings and clones 300-400ppm 5.3-5.5 ph
early vegg 500-600ppm 5.3-5.6 ph
middle vegg 600-800ppm 5.4-5.6 ph
late vegg 800-1000ppm 5.5-5.7 ph
early flower 1000-1300ppm 5.5-5.7 ph
middle flower 1400-1600ppm 5.5-5.8 ph
late flower 1000-1100ppm 5.5-5.7 ph
ripening 300-500ppm 5.4-5.6 ph

sativa's

seedlings and clones 250-350ppm 5.3-5.5 ph
early vegg 300-500ppm 5.3-5.6 ph
middle vegg 500-700ppm 5.4-5.6 ph
late vegg 700-900ppm 5.5-5.7 ph
early flower 1000-1100ppm 5.5-5.7 ph
middle flower 1100-1300ppm 5.5-5.8 ph
late flower 800-1000ppm 5.5-5.7 ph
ripening 300-500ppm 5.4-5.6 ph

Thanks in advance

sublimesmoker · Oct 27, 2011

Ur charts look somewhat ok, just go 1/2 or 1/4 strength until u c how they react then ramp up from there. Seeds and rooted clones need very lil until established. And I would save my money on the DR and just by some 2x4's and some plywood or OSB, It'll b a lot cheaper and itll b easier to hang and mount things also, with the space and the $1000 u could set up a nice flower and veg area. Oh and then cover all of the inside with a roll of reflectix for total lumen use, and no light lost.

Now if ur not a DIY guy or gal then the dark room might b the way to go. I'm sure u could find some one to help u get something framed up if u can use a drill and a saw? Good luck with it and dont give up, If I can help ya's just holler.

2tm23 · Oct 27, 2011

Ok thanks for your interest and clues but i already got a tent and seeds germinating now so the only question unanswered is how often to water slabs when positioned vertically. thanks

sublimesmoker · Oct 27, 2011

2tm23 said:
Ok thanks for your interest and clues but i already got a tent and seeds germinating now so the only question unanswered is how often to water slabs when positioned vertically. thanks

Have u tried searching for threads using rockwool slabs? Lots of incredible information on this site if ur willing to do a lil reading I bet u could find plenty of info on watering rockwool. I have not used rock wool but considered it for cloning purposes. One of the biggest problems people seemed to have with r/w was overwatering it, or it staying, being kept to wet. Seems like their is also a problem with algea growing on its surface if not properly protected from light...

I've also seen a bunch of successful threads using rockwool. It all comes down to trying it and seeing what works for you. I'm having a hard time visualizing ur setup with vertical slabs, is it like an NFT setup? If u could post some pics it would b a lil easier to help ya, but I'm sure someone else will chime in with some answers more concrete then mine. :ying:

2tm23 · Oct 27, 2011

Thing is slabs are positioned vertically as well like in the EcoSystem. Ive just noticed that you can buy slabs designed for vertical gro but i have normal Grodan would that be ok for system like EcoSystem?

Just reading many posts but cant really find ones where someone was growing in the system like mine (design)

thanks

sublimesmoker · Oct 27, 2011

what about some pics?

Is this what ur talking about?

Choc · Oct 27, 2011

they are shit!!! sorry if you have one but honestly about 5 years ago i ran 6 of these for almost a year and they are appalling for so many reasons....

you can make a system better than the Eco out of wood and in my opinion the rockwool slabs hung vert are useless the bottoms get water logged while the tops dry out to quick...

honestly take a look at Bobbleheads racks FTW....

2tm23 · Oct 30, 2011

Yes its sth like Eco i heard already they are not that good. Anyway if i got them up and running already now its too late to go for other setup and my simple question is how to water them? Choc how did you water them? You can actually water them less water more often so the gravity will let water go through the slabs evenly if you know waht i mean. You dont really have to wait for water to come out down the slabs while watering. Maybe a minute every 30 mins or so to keep top watered and bottom not overwatered? Any suggestion in that matter?

Im thinking to go for perlite (hydroton) instead of rockwool, filled in slab shape-like bags or pcv pipes like 6" is that sounds like good idea? If so how aften and how long for should i water these mediums?

Thanks for all replies

Choc · Oct 30, 2011

you can buy coco slabs already done they work much better than these slabs but IMO just redesign your system next time so you are running vert but with flat slabs or pots as this way of growing is allways going to be a struggle...

on the feeding side of things i would water untill you see slight run off and then check a couple of hours later to see how the tops are drying out and add more waterings as and when you need them a pain in the start but once you have it dialled it will be easy...

In the Eco systems it had a dripper hose around the top with a dripper for each slab the slabs sat above the rez so the run off ran back into the water...

how is your setup set up? where will you water runoff too? and are you using run to water or recirculating?

2tm23 · Oct 30, 2011

Im using recirculating but actually been adviced to run to waste at least for last 4 weeks of flowering.
Im not going to use rockwool nxt time anyway coz getting rid of 28 slabs going to be a bit difficult

Choc · Oct 31, 2011

you have been advised that due to salt buildup i would imagine if you use House and Garden drip clean this will eliminate that problem... i would run your system run to waste the whole way threw but thats me either way will work but at least you know what your feeding with RTW as recirculating unless you are checking it 3 or 4 times a day your ph and ec can go up and down...

so yeah i would run your system run to wast.... put your pump on with a dripper at the top and wait for some water run off... about 4 hours later i would see how dry your rockwool is and consider another water this time time it to when you get run off it may be a very short amount of time as the first water was to get the slab wet now its semi wet it wont take as long to get wet.. get it? again checking in about 4 hours and if things are drying out then another water for the amount of time you timed last time and watch to see when you get run off.... you can now set the timer to come on for as long as you need as frequent as you need and know your plants will be getting what they need...

dont bother watering when the lights are out as its a waste and will cause stupidly crazy high humidity that will cause all sorts of problems later in flower.... your first water of the day should be as the lights come on IMO....

anything else i can help with give me a shout and pic's?

out of interest what size if your growing area what light are you using and how many plants do you have to play with?

Harry Gypsna · Oct 31, 2011

Id try to get Bcuzz mixed fibre, or Maxxima slabs(made by grodan or cultilene-cant remember which.
If you are stuck with using the regular rockwool, then you will need to keep an eye on your watering times-little and often instead of once or twice a day...id go every hour.
What you said about using perlite or something and making your own slabs---I have been planning the same thing ever since I saw the eco system. Google lay flat poly tubing, it comes in a range of sizes, and you can get black lightproof stuff, here in the uk it is about 35 pounds for a 100 metre roll of heavy duty black tubing that is equivalent in size to the sleeves on a rockwool slab. Google the "Fruitwise Wagon wheel" hydro system-that would be really easy to copy

sublimesmoker · Nov 1, 2011

Told ya u would get some good advice with a lil patience. Sounds like ur on ur way to a primo setup man. Hope u get it all up and running smooth man. :wave:

2tm23 · Nov 3, 2011

Hi guys
I was searching further online for some more info about growing in rockwool slabs vertically and how to water them and found on grodan website small tutorial how to water slabs in EcoSystem which is pretty much similar to the one ill be using. Heres the link guys http://www.grodan101.com/growing-tips/systems/vertical-slab-growing woukd you tell me what you think about it? It seems like a quite good idea to water them constantly as long as your tank is well oxygenated. we know that overwatering occurs only if theres no dissolved oxygen in water. my tank is 120L and air pump used in it to aerate it is suitable for 150-300L tanks which is more than enough.
Ill post some pics when its all up and running.
Thanks

Choc · Nov 3, 2011

Watering 24/7 in vert slabs is Shit! Thats what i think about that......

2tm23 · Nov 3, 2011

why is it so? did you try it yourself?
have you read link i posted? would manufacturer of slabs be wrong then?

Choc · Nov 3, 2011

Have you read what i have said in this thread?

bobblehead · Nov 3, 2011

Choc said:
Have you read what i have said in this thread?

some people can't be helped bro... lol...

Experience will tell the newb why not to use vertical slabs... Yours or his for not listening to yours...

Harry Gypsna · Nov 4, 2011

Another idea I had to make the vertical rockwool slab idea better regarding watering, is to cut the slabs into 2 or even 3 equal length pieces. ((obviously masks and gloves-doing it with the rockwool wet are essential)) Now, using some of the poly tubing I mentioned before, make sleeves(leave the existing grodan sleeves on!!! also get tubing that wil be large enough to fit loosely over the slab leaving a small gap!!)), which are 1.5 times longer than the rockwool slab section. The pieces would go up on the system one above the other-like a single slab, but cut up now-with the excess length of each sleeve, tucked inbetween the sleeve layers on the slab below. The water should drain out of one slab, and down behind the next one. Of course, this means you have to modify your irrigation system to water the lower slab sections, I would use "Octa-mitter" drippers which are very adjustable,to get each slabs watering even..
I still think the vertical rock wool slab idea is a good one, great for tight spaces, but needs a lot of tweaking which makes buying an expensive system pointless, because as choc said, you can build better yourself--but This thread is a guy asking for help to work with what he's got-which is the whole point of this site isnt it.
Poly tubes filled with hydroton is what I would replace the slabs with personally

2tm23 · Nov 4, 2011

Choc said:
Have you read what i have said in this thread?

Choc really thanks for your help dont get me wrong im not telling your wron, all im doing is asking questions and trying to reason a bit. Lets take DWC system. Water is rich in oxygen so the plants can survive. Why then plants cant survive in rockwool if i water them well oxygenated water? And if I cant water them 24/7 or so Im trying to understand why i cant do it. I dont want to water them 24/7 but that sound to me like a good piece of logic...
someone said that top of slab gets dry to quick when bottom stays wet and maybe thats the problem. plants on top suffer of not not enough water, bottom ones of not enough oxygen cos roots stay in water (without DO in it) all the time.

bobblehead said:
some people can't be helped bro... lol...

Experience will tell the newb why not to use vertical slabs... Yours or his for not listening to yours...

If you want to help, do it otherwise leave and dont come back.

Harry Gypsna said:
Another idea I had to make the vertical rockwool slab idea better regarding watering, is to cut the slabs into 2 or even 3 equal length pieces. ((obviously masks and gloves-doing it with the rockwool wet are essential)) Now, using some of the poly tubing I mentioned before, make sleeves(leave the existing grodan sleeves on!!! also get tubing that wil be large enough to fit loosely over the slab leaving a small gap!!)), which are 1.5 times longer than the rockwool slab section. The pieces would go up on the system one above the other-like a single slab, but cut up now-with the excess length of each sleeve, tucked inbetween the sleeve layers on the slab below. The water should drain out of one slab, and down behind the next one. Of course, this means you have to modify your irrigation system to water the lower slab sections, I would use "Octa-mitter" drippers which are very adjustable,to get each slabs watering even..
I still think the vertical rock wool slab idea is a good one, great for tight spaces, but needs a lot of tweaking which makes buying an expensive system pointless, because as choc said, you can build better yourself--but This thread is a guy asking for help to work with what he's got-which is the whole point of this site isnt it.
Poly tubes filled with hydroton is what I would replace the slabs with personally

thanks a lot, at least someone who understands whole forum idea.

Going vertically - few questions

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