Veg LED lights. The future is obviously here so let's talk.

What brands are out there and what do you guys think of them?

I am currently ready to ditch my old T5's and go LED like I will be doing soon for flowering.

These look nice but a little more pricey.

https://growershouse.com/nextlight-veg8-led-grow-light

Very tempted to go with these but is the price too good be true?

https://growershouse.com/agroled-sun-48-led-6500k

What brands have you guys found that you would consider or have experience with? I need to clone and veg under these to about 24 inches (mainly for moms most vegging will be done under my big leds). Other options I have found are just ridiculously expensive and not worth it at all yet. Over 500 for a veg light might as well be buying a fuckin flowering light and sticking with T5.

Black Dog are expensive and two (3 units) needed warranty work the second year. They can be used withing 15" and give very good growth to shorter plants.

Black Diamond are less expensive and on the third year without problems (4 units). These have a tighter focus and can be used within 25" with good results.

Hydrogrow does not honor warranty (5 units) and every unit bought had failures within the warranty period. Do not buy.

Platinums are too strong on red but make a good supplement for HID. No failures at all (5 units). The veg setting is excellent spectrum but only runs half the diodes. All the bloom diodes are red, which carry much less energy than any other color, which hurts yield. Again, great supplement light.

Advanced XTE is priced right up there with Black Dog but has a very tight focus, thirty inches is about as close as can be. The light is carried very well on tall plants but needs a high ceiling. Two years (2 units) and all is well.

Mars Hydro's passive Far Red emitters (4 units) have been trouble free but are only used an hour per day, 30 minutes at lights on and 30 minutes at lights off. Reasonably priced, same as BMI's discontinued units.

Phillips LED Flowering bulb is a screw in socket bulb running 13 watts. one bulb failure (6 units) in two years. This is a Far Red floodlight used for smaller veg plants and clones.

There are a few other brands I have heard good things about, Amare comes to mind, but these are the only ones I have used long enough to have an opinion.

Very good concise info man thanks! Definitely helps narrow things down and give options.

I have an Advanced Diamond Series XML 650 about 5' above my 4'x4' veg table running at half power. I originally bought this for flower, but it was too hot in the center at full power. Replaced it with a MIGRO 600 for flowering. The Advanced is outstanding for veg in this configuration. It replace 2 4' 4 tube T5 fixtures. Canopy penetration is excellent, top to bottom healthy green on the plants, which are 2-3' tall. Having the light up much higher than the T5s makes it much more pleasant to work on the veg table. All good, except the cost.

I see a lot of people crushing it with home made LED units. Gimme a min and let me find out for sure..


Edit : here's the thread. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=348379

I'll second what DTOG said. DIY LEDs seem to be the cheapest way to go, and pretty easy to put together, if you're so inclined.

Most people are using either Bridgelux EB series rigid LED strips, or other strips / boards that use Samsung LM561C diodes. Either option is generally 150-200 lumens/watt, depending on Brand, and how hard you want to push them.

The Bridgelux EB series, and Samsung strips come in 11, 22, and 44 inch lengths, but you can also find the Samsung diodes configured onto rectangular Printed Circuit Boards, such as the Quantum boards by Horticultural Lighting Group, or have something custom ordered from Alibaba.

If you don't want to source the components individually, (Generally as simple as LED strips/boards, a power supply, some 18ga doorbell wire, double sided thermal tape, and aluminum stock for a frame) there are kits available at places like HLG, Cutter, and Mouser, I think. The main drawback for those kits seems to be the back order time though. It seems like they either can't, or won't keep enough in stock for anyone to order at just any time. You can usually get the components pretty easily from places like Digikey and Arrow though.

I recently built 3 lights with components from Alibaba, and other than waiting on their asses to source the 480w Meanwell driver, I would say I'm happy with how everything went overall. I built a (max) 120w seedling/clone light, a 240w vertical veg light, and a 480w vertical flowering light, using 48 of the 22" strips all together, and the cost was about $800.

I hope this helps give you a few more ideas. Those LED strips are so easy to customize, you shouldn't have any issues coming up with an answer for your veg lights, or even flower, for that matter.

Good luck!

I need to cover 2 4x4 foot prints to start for a veg room. This seems really nice. They look good and sturdy?

I have no clue about any of the pieces though it sounds like gibberish to me. I would really like to buy the packages I suppose? I want exactly what is pictured in the thread looks sufficient. One thing I noticed is their lights are very far above the plants? They really that strong? I will be cloning under them too don't want to destroy my plants and learn the hard way, but will have a good light meter so should help.

40AmpstoFreedom said:

I need to cover 2 4x4 foot prints to start for a veg room. This seems really nice. They look good and sturdy?

I have no clue about any of the pieces though it sounds like gibberish to me. I would really like to buy the packages I suppose? I want exactly what is pictured in the thread looks sufficient. One thing I noticed is their lights are very far above the plants? They really that strong? I will be cloning under them too don't want to destroy my plants and learn the hard way, but will have a good light meter so should help.

Click to expand...

That's why I gave you searchable terms, which should give you answers within 1 search on Google, ICMag, or RIU, brotha

So, if you went the easiest way, you'd just contact Ichabod, and see what he can make you 4 of those fixtures in the thread for. That would cover 2 4x4s, as they look to cover at least a 2x4 a piece.

If his prices were higher than you wanted to pay, you'd have to compare his price to the price of the 44" Samsung F series strips, as they seem to be the closest design to his, with the double rows of diodes.

There are a lot of folks running these at the distance seen in those pics, and seem to be doing quite well. They may actually be better at that distance, to give them a reason to stretch. I've seen them used in a vert grow, 4" from the diodes, and they didn't stretch for shit...indica, or sativa...it was actually detrimental! They didn't bleach until the leaf laid on the diodes for a couple days- then there were diode-sized bleach spots, in a row, down the leaf. If you're cloning or seeding, you should be able to keep them from 18-36" from foliage...PLUS, these LEDs are usually dimmable to at least 50%, if not 100%(not recommended for diode lifespan), so you can always overbuild, and dial down the power (while dialing up efficiency, one of the main bonuses to LED tech)

They seem to cover a lot of area, very evenly, with good results from people here, and on other boards...you wouldn't believe something that takes up the physical space of a T5 would kill that T5 with less bulbs/strips. Waxy has 3, 44" strips over a 2x4 area, that will last at least 3-5yrs, with minimal light degradation. A lot of folks think these are the next wave, with pretty impressive results thus far...Hop on, and hang 10!

PS- A light meter will put you steps ahead of a lot of folks, when dialing in your photon blast...a lot of folks have to wait and see if it bleaches, or stretches, and adjust accordingly lol

Oh, the only problem with the kits is the back order time, which is usually at least a few weeks...but, that's only if you specifically want the Quantum boards. If you like the strip idea, they're much more readily available.

If you want exactly what Waxy/Dans/Icha have, contact Ichabod, and see if he still has stock to make 3 lights....before someone else does!

Otherwise, you'll basically need 12 x 44" F Series Samsung LED strips, 4 x Meanwell HLG-185H-C1400A/B Drivers("A" version has built in flathead dimmer to 50%, B has wires to attach potentiometer), some wire, aluminum stock for mounting/frame/heat sink, double sided tape, power cord, and soldering iron or wire connectors. You could build one in an afternoon, easy. The connectors on the strips are push-in. You only have to solder or wire-connect to and from the driver(power supply).

Damnit, still can't edit for a few more posts...

...Anyway, another important thing to note when switching to LEDs is nutrient uptake. If you continue with your regular feeding schedule, you may notice deficiencies quicker, especially cal/mag, from most folks experiences. People seem to think the plants get so many usable photons that they eat proportionally faster.

https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/t5-led-tube-lights-5000k/

https://growershouse.com/agroled-isunlight-t5-white-5-500-k-led-grow-lamp

^ Have you considered retrofitting your t-5 fixtures with these? I was thinking about trying them out, some are plug and play, some need to bypass the ballast.

Just another option for ya!

I was leaning towards scratch building a screw-in bulb fixture, but don't want to lose the extra few inches of work space in my short veg cab.. compared to the slim t-5.

Tempting when $12.00 for a 12 pack of dollar store LED bulbs is 108 watts total, and there are drawers and boxes packed full of light sockets for like 10-25 cents at the local building salvage stores. Seems hard to beat that!

That second light is terrible.

Lets just look at the lumens. First lumens are what we see and not plants. They include light that the plant uses and does not use. But is still something we can use to see if a light is way out of range.

So the second light says it is 21,900 lumens for 187 watts. Or we can break it down to lumens/watt or lm/w which means lumens per watt. This is how much light you get per watt of consumed energy. So this light gets 117 lm/w.

A T5 gets 5000/54 lm/w or 93 lm/w. But if you go with a light like HLG you get 154 lm/w. Shown here on there site.

https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/products/hlg-550

That is a lot better. A big chunk of that could just be driver loss. Simply put a driver is like a ballast. A lower efficiency ballast like a magnetic ballast puts out more heat than a more efficient digital ballast. The same goes with drivers for LEDs.

The second thing is the LEDs them self. Older LED produce less light and more heat. The HLG light appears to be running a far more efficient LED. But I could be wrong because by running LEDs at a lower current the efficiency tends to go up. But that cost more money to buy more diodes.

Next lets look a spectrum. The second light has a 6500K spectrum. That means it puts out more light to the blue spectrum. This is less energy intensive to make than the red spectrum. The HLG is 3000K.

Personally I like more red in my lights. My 3500K cree light has to tight of growth and has to be pruned quite a bit to prevent shading. I like the 3000K because it has more stretch to it.

What that light does have going for it is that it should not degrade near as fast as a T5 light does.

The first light does have a few things going for it. Firstly it has a great warranty. But will they be around to honor that warranty. I am not sure of that but you have to judge that yourself.

Second it is UL certified. That means someone other than Nextlight tested the light. I wont get into that you can goggle that yourself.

But here is the difference between that light and the HLG light. The next light says it puts out 1.94 PPF/watt. This just means how much light a plant uses per watt used to create it. PPF means in a easy to understand term only the light a plant uses to grow. So looking at the HLG light it says it uses 510 watts to produce 1160 PPF. Or that is 2.27 PPF/watt. That is 17% more plant usable light for the same amount of wattage.

Anyway just pointing out there are better lights out there. I went my own way and built a light that is even better than the 3 I mentioned above. You should really try to learn some of those term you say are gibberish though. Once you go over it a few times it will start to make sense and save you some money.

Yeah I am definitely leaning towards building them. Thanks a ton for info and breakdown.

I build my own and have so many extra part and stuff that I have sold some just to get rid of some of the parts. So be warned you will end up with a ton of extra stuff. I plan on building a lot more though.

When you build your own it will cost more than you think because of the extra parts. But it will educate you to what goes into the lights. I think I have about 15 different sizes of screws now lol. M3x5, m3x6, m3,8, m3x12, m2.5x4, m2.5x5 , m2.5x6. And that is just the machine screws in those sizes not the self tappers or wether the are philips, hex, stainless steel, ect.

Some times I am waiting a week just to get a screw or a quick disconnect. It took me about 5 months just to locate all the different parts and build a prototype before I even had a light.

Ichabod Crane said:

I build my own and have so many extra part and stuff that I have sold some just to get rid of some of the parts. So be warned you will end up with a ton of extra stuff. I plan on building a lot more though.

When you build your own it will cost more than you think because of the extra parts. But it will educate you to what goes into the lights. I think I have about 15 different sizes of screws now lol. M3x5, m3x6, m3,8, m3x12, m2.5x4, m2.5x5 , m2.5x6. And that is just the machine screws in those sizes not the self tappers or wether the are philips, hex, stainless steel, ect.

Some times I am waiting a week just to get a screw or a quick disconnect. It took me about 5 months just to locate all the different parts and build a prototype before I even had a light.

Click to expand...

But in the end is worth it. Plus in the long run, it saves money and produces an equal quality if not better quality product. Correct?

Yes and no.

If you build it right yes it will be a better light and could be cheaper. I say could be because I have a bunch of tools and supplies around now. I will use these tools and supplies again but some people wont.

I put a lot of time into learning what to use and how to use it. If you have time then this is not a big deal. Some people just dont have the time to do the research or build one two or three lights. Me I plan on building dozens so it is a good thing for me to spend my time on. And I have spent a ton of time learning.

It is all comes down to do you want to spend time or money. Sometimes it is just better to spend some money rather than the time. The lights I have sold I only got about $75 over the cost of the materials. If I were only going to build three my time is worth more than the $225 I would pay out to have it done.

That aside I like knowing what I am using and why I am using it. Even if I paid that out I know I will recoup the cost of the light in about 1.25 to 1.5 years. I sent a light out to a high energy cost state that will pay for itself in less than 8 months. So yes it can be worth it and yes they are equal or better in my opinion.

I do also have a electrical engineer that I talk to. Sold him some clones to. That helps.

I run a Nextlight Mini (160w) in a 3x3 tent and its amazing.

-Funk

I built a nice veg light using flexible Samsung LM561C 3000k and 5000k diodes with an HLG-185H-C1400B driver for 200w of power in a 2x2. I can dim down to zero to 200w or anywhere in between.

works great for vegging.

I also designed and built my own pcb light 100w/200w using Samsung LM561C 3000k and 5000k with 384 diodes on two channels. Channels wired in parallel yields 100w at 88mA achieving 200lm/w using a HLG-120H-C1050B driver. Two channels wired in series yields 200w at 175mA achieving 170lm/w using a HLG-185H-C1050B driver.

Im no LED expert by any means but check GROWMOU5 out on youtube. The dude is legit AF you can just tell he's a stand up dude and the proof of his work is in his videos. I don't know of anyone else who's that on top of the current LED tech. He recently took a job at ChilLED so going off his resume and willingness to work with them I would defiantly say they had to be legit. His channel will pretty much answer anything you want to know about LEDs and about building custom setups. ChilLED also have some fucking sweet DIY kits they offer which you might be interested in.