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HELP WITH CHOOSING LED LIGHTS

danlilker

Member
Hello everybody,
i am here because i am new to a possible indoor growing. When i say indoor growing i don't necessarily mean to use all the equipment that is usually used and associated with indoor growing (i.e. fans, carbon filters, tents etc).Anyway i would not be using it.
I have a room that is pitch black, it means that no external (coming from outside = sunlight) lights come in because i keep the shutters closed all the time. This room has already an E27 attachment for the bulb(s). (I could even put more attachments/slots for more bulbs to be used). The room can be easily fanned and kept ventilated once i ipen the windows/shutters because the place where i live has plenty of wind. I am thiking of using normal soil. No coco no artificial stuff. Just simple good soil pre-amended (peat compost humus worm castings wtc)

I have already read many websites about the differences in lights (HID - HPS - CFL - LED) so i am quite familiar with them and their differences... including the light penetration of each one (seems that the HPS are the ones with the highest light penetration followed by the LED. right?)
I have come to the point where i think LED is the best solution FOR ME (am not saying they are the absolute best among all the lights out there on the market).
The room has a square size. It measures approximately 3m by 3m (no more than 4m x 4m anyway). To cut down (even more) the costs on the monthly bill i am thinking of using big light bulbs (LED) each of 40W (real output is 228 W per bulb. the light is "cold white" and it gives out 4000 Lumens). The same lighbulb (i.e. 40W) but with warm white light has a real output of 220W and gives out 3800 Lumen).
Now, i know (after reading many specialized websites and companies' websites producing these kind of lights) that the best output is 10.000 Lumens (the typical sun emission on a summer day) but the local shop i went to yesterday had only the above mentioned LED lights (very big bulbs with an angle of 220 degrees coverage both cold white light and warm white light).
If i decide to give it a try, i was thinking to buy both white cold light and warm white light. Like 2 bulbs of cold white light and 2 bulbs of warm white light (going towards the yellow of the spectrum). I am not gonna buy (nor paint) blue and/or red lights. I just want to experiment, with a minimum investment (4 bulbs of 40W giving out 228W each) would cost me 120 Euros so no big deal to give it a try and if i plug them all in at the same time, using them all, 4 bulbs, it would give me a total of 896W (228 x 2 + 220 x 2 = 869W).

I am more thinking of using 2 white cold lights for growing (total of 456W) and 2 warm white lights for the blooming/flowering (because the warm white light gets closer to the red light, on the spectrum, than the cold white light). Now some questions (below)

1) Do you think that 2 bulbs of 228W each = 456W will be enough for growing (say just 2 plants)

2) if each bulb gives out 4000 Lumens, does it mean that using 2 bulbs at the same time i will have 8000 Lumens? or will they still giving out 4000 Lumen? (sorry for my ignorance)

3) I am thinking of using simple wires/cables hanging from the ceiling (with the possibility of adjusting the length of the cables for when the plants will grow taller). Using LED lights, what is the preferred distance between the LED bulb and the top of the plant?

4) Is it a good idea to switch/use warm white light when the blooming/flowering phase will start?

5) I read somewhere that during flowering the Watts and Lumens should be higher. Is this true? If it's true, can i just use the 4 LED bulbs (2 cold white and 2 warm white light) for the flowering? (using the 4 bulbs i will have a total of 896W)

6) If i use two of these lights do i cover more surface than if i used the VIPARSPECTRA 300W grow led? (i read many good reviews about this product but seems a bit small to me and more bulky than just bulbs)

7) On a surface of 1m x 1m x2m (or max 2m x 2m x 2m) how many plants do you reckon i can grow at the same time? ( i would be building a wooden shower type of box or something of that sort ) using the above equipment?

8) what’s the best size for the pots in terms of litres (capacity) and/or centimetres in terms of pot diametre? I don’t wanna grow dwarf plants nor super tall plants. Say 1.80 m max 2m tall.

Ok i think that’s all for now. If other questions/doubts come to mind i’ll add them down here.

Cheers
Dan
 

thejact55

Active member
I am not going to answer all of your questions, but here is my 2 cents.

- viparspectra- i have a 900 watt led from them. I like it alot. Light penetration is decent, not as good as my hps, but sufficient. I am happy with the yeilds i am getting. Buds from the more western strains are dense. I usually am growing landraces. Heat is way down, the main reason i bought one. I have my 900 watt covering a 3'x3' (1 meter x 1 meter) tent. It covers it decently, but not perfectly. The outer edges of my tent could use a little better light.
The viparspectra has veg and bloom light setting also, so it takes out any work on spectrum.

4 meters x 4 meters is a ton of space. For full coverage, 3 or 4 of these 900 watt lights would be needed in my opinion. I light per sq meter is minimum in my mind based on my use of a single 900 watt light.

As far as pots, it all depends on strain. I think i have seen you all over touting you are a landrace guy, correct?
I have 8' tall senegal plants outside in 1 gallon (4 liter?) Pots. I can consitently get sativa landrace plants 6-7' tall indoors in these tiny pots. It you are growing a more "indica" plant it can vary. 2 gallons or 5 gallons (8 liters/20 liters??) Might help yeilds and they could stay short enough, or they could get huge. I say start small and transplant to bigger as you see fit. Sativa, one gallon period with only 2 meters of height.

Hope this helps a little.
 

Iamnumber

Active member
To cut down (even more) the costs on the monthly bill i am thinking of using big light bulbs (LED) each of 40W (real output is 228 W per bulb. the light is "cold white" and it gives out 4000 Lumens). The same lighbulb (i.e. 40W) but with warm white light has a real output of 220W and gives out 3800 Lumen).
What you speak of as "real" output is most likely "eqvivalent of old bulp lumination"

double check the measuring distance for listed lumens.

1) Do you think that 2 bulbs of 228W each = 456W will be enough for growing (say just 2 plants)
no,
2) if each bulb gives out 4000 Lumens, does it mean that using 2 bulbs at the same time i will have 8000 Lumens? or will they still giving out 4000 Lumen? (sorry for my ignorance)
Lumens given by lamp diminish over distance.
Adding lamps will add to lumens in given spot.
3) I am thinking of using simple wires/cables hanging from the ceiling (with the possibility of adjusting the length of the cables for when the plants will grow taller). Using LED lights, what is the preferred distance between the LED bulb and the top of the plant?
40W is small .. 15cm would be fine.
4) Is it a good idea to switch/use warm white light when the blooming/flowering phase will start?
warm light is better than cold white. special lamps given bloom spectrum would be much better still.
warm light is better than cold white. special lamps given bloom spectrum would be much better still.
5) I read somewhere that during flowering the Watts and Lumens should be higher. Is this true? If it's true, can i just use the 4 LED bulbs (2 cold white and 2 warm white light) for the flowering? (using the 4 bulbs i will have a total of 896W)
More light is better as it gives plant energy to produce fruit/flowers. heat / energy usage usually limits.
6) If i use two of these lights do i cover more surface than if i used the VIPARSPECTRA 300W grow led? (i read many good reviews about this product but seems a bit small to me and more bulky than just bulbs)
I do not know the said led but it would be much much better than the bulps. Better spectrum, more light
7) On a surface of 1m x 1m x2m (or max 2m x 2m x 2m) how many plants do you reckon i can grow at the same time? ( i would be building a wooden shower type of box or something of that sort ) using the above equipment?
depends bit on what grow style you will chose.
from 4 plants per 1m*1m upto 9 plants

8) what’s the best size for the pots in terms of litres (capacity) and/or centimetres in terms of pot diametre? I don’t wanna grow dwarf plants nor super tall plants. Say 1.80 m max 2m tall.
1,8 m tall is quite big.
if available I would use 20L (5 Gal) buckets (cheap). Extra volume dose not hurt plant (harder to move etc.) while too small will limit growth. I would not take anything under 10L bucket

Ok i think that’s all for now. If other questions/doubts come to mind i’ll add them down here.

Cheers
Dan

Please do study more about lights. Few points.
Wattage. this is the amount the light draws from wall. Some led manufacturers do lable/name incorrect wattage / misleading name.

Different light types have different efficiency ratings. basic glow wire bulp is horrible, led and hps are good with different strong points.

If you buy a proper led for growing I do recommend one that has both veg and grow spectrum AND has a swithc for each of these. on/off is good, dim switch is better.

I would section the room for flower area, veg area and propagation.

Hope this helps
 

thejact55

Active member
Iamnumber is bang on with his advice in my opinion.
To agree with his opinion on stating that LED lights can be misleading...
As far as the wattage stated by LED lights, my viparspectra states 900 watts, comparable to a 1000 watt hps i believe. This is crap. I would say a 600 watt hps can easily cover more area than my 900 watt led.
So when your talking a 300 watt viparspectra, i would compare that to a 150, maybe a 250 watt hps. Its not a big light at all.
 

danlilker

Member
Hi thejact55

yes that's me. Thanks for the precious info. I was actually thinking of buying a 900W light (even before reading your message) as, for what i have understood, grow Led still come second place compared to HPS which have more light intensity and penetrations. But they save so much more than HPS that i do not really mind it. As the main reason for growing would be more for seed stash rather rthan bud production. Now i will have to just sit down and work out the costs on the final bill (roughly) and see if i can face them :) How about this light schedule 2 months (or a 1 month and a half) of 16/8 and 2 months (or 2 months and a half) of 11/13 ? That for having a good size plants with loads of seeds.

Cheers
Dan
 

danlilker

Member
Hi Iamnumber: thanks for the detailed info and for having taken the time to answer everything!

Iamnumber: What you speak of as "real" output is most likely "eqvivalent of old bulp lumination"
double check the measuring distance for listed lumens.

Dan:so basically 40W will be still 40W and not 228W. That would have been cool

Dan: I read somewhere that during flowering the Watts and Lumens should be higher. Is this true? If it's true, can i just use the 4 LED bulbs (2 cold white and 2 warm white light) for the flowering? (using the 4 bulbs i will have a total of 896W)

Iamnumber: More light is better as it gives plant energy to produce fruit/flowers. heat / energy usage usually limits.

Dan: i understand "more light is better as it gives plant energy to produce fruit/flowers. BUT i don't understand what you meant when you wrote: "heat7energy usage usually limits" (what?)

Imnumber: depends bit on what grow style you will chose.from 4 plants per 1m*1m upto 9 plants

Dan: ok say i will be growin ìn space of 1x1x2 and will be using a 300W grow LED. The plants will have a short flowering phase (between a min of 40 days up to a maximum of 60 days) and will be not tall (no more than 1.50.) will 4 plants be ok in that space or 300W is too small for 4 plants? i won't be scrogging nor sogging maybe just a bit of fimming to keep them short in case i see them wanting to grow tall.

Iamnumber: if available I would use 20L (5 Gal) buckets (cheap). Extra volume dose not hurt plant (harder to move etc.) while too small will limit growth. I would not take anything under 10L bucket

Dan: how about if i use a 20L pot from start to end? Would that be ok or too big? Don't feel like transplanting.

Thank you so much for your answers
Dan
 

Chevy cHaze

Out Of Dankness Cometh Light
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Hi man,
When talking LEDs ALWAYS refer to real, drawn watts, not what they are supposed to be replacing in "normal" lamps.
Maybe I'm too stoned, but did you say you got 4000lumen from 228w ??
That's no goot sir, I get 1500lumen from a 13w Philips srew-in bulb.

Good luck
CC
 

zachrockbadenof

Well-known member
Veteran
last spring I bought '3' vipar's for my 4ftx3.5ft tent.. during the grow I was not overly impressed, so added a 8bulb 4ft fluor for side light... the fluor unfort put out tooo much heat during springtime,coming into summer so I chopped early... I gave the vipar's away to a fellow who is using them in a closet for his mum's..
 

EVP_Research

New member
I'm new here and have not grown in fifteen years.

After a solid month of research Ive narrowed my choices down to three lights based on PAR output data and my budget ceiling of 850.00.

California Lightworks Solar System 550, Optic LED's Optic Six or Truth LED's M9.

This is where I'll be purchasing the light;

https://www.ledgrowlightsdepot.com/

I'm placing my trust in this store from numerous positive feedback from other growers that have purchased from them.

Good luck and enjoy your grow!:):):)
 
R

Rageous8899

Get the cree cxb 3590s. Im running 2 of them at 50w 1400ma along with a light bar i also built and soldered using luxeon blues cree photo reds and variius spectrums of the cree xml2. Prob about 170 watts true and i get close to 170 grams a harvest. Super efficient. Heres a link to my builds that has specs. If you buy any prefab lights like mars make sure you read the fine specs bexause the true watts are usually half of what they say they are. I been through mars. Had a kind led panel and that is actually legit. But ive had best results with this setup and its really easy. I use no co2. No carbon filter. No tons of noisy fans. My temps stay close to ambient in the closet i grow in and its usually like 75 degrees. Dont buy without doing a little homework. https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?u=475959
 

danlilker

Member
@Chevy cHaze hi and thank you for the reply. no it's 4000 lumen from a 40W LED bulb (a simple bulb). anyway me not gonna buy bulbs as i've been told they are not as good as a grow led panel.
 

danlilker

Member
@Rageous8899 thank you for your message. yes me too i am starting to think that this viparspectra is nothing out of this world. you pay peanuts and get monkeys. so no wonder.
what lights are you using now?

cheers
Dan
 

thejact55

Active member
A thought on seeds. I normally get 3-4 grow cycles a year, all but one of those are purely for seeds.
If you are not in it for yeild, but mainly for seeds, you can worry alot less about a ton of light. A decent sized plant, properly pollinated and having enough nutrients and a basic amount of light to live will produce more seeds than you can use.
I have made seeds under hps, led and flouro lights. All plants sustained a generous yeild of seeds, the only factor was plant size, and the time in which i pollinated..
 

packerfan79

Active member
Veteran
You should look into ceramic metal halide lights. They will give you the light you need and less heat than HPS. They are expensive, but nothing like decent leds. I think ceramic metal halide lights are going to pretty much force the led guys out of business. I have thought about leds befor bit the tech is still drastically overpriced. 2500 for a decent 1000 watt led, no thanks. I can build a whole room, and buy equipment for that price. I have a feeling this is going to be a very costly learning experience if you go with leds.

Good luck, and happy growing. Check out the Phillips elite cdm thread.
 

Boyd Crowder

Teem MiCr0B35
i has a mars ii 900 watter i used for my first 2 runs - i sold it to a clone factory out in the bay
i used that cash to pick up 3 old ballasts and hoods and new 600w bulbs and had change left over

leds are pretty but dont have much use for my style

idk what your requirements are but that mars was good for about a 3x3 area , my 2 lights cover about 44 sq ft in vert
 

Leaf Eater

Active member
I have seen a huge difference in a good quality LED and the cheap versions. The cheap ones are junk and the good ones are too expensive for my taste.
 

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