Help and tips making shatter and honeycomb

deeppurple87 · Oct 13, 2015

I am going to do another run today with my mini closed column. Going to try a 10 minute soak this time.

I am going to be working with a closed loop system shortly. Any tips for running these babies besides keep everything dry dry dry, cold cold cold?

bigganjabud · Oct 13, 2015

deeppurple87 said:
I am going to do another run today with my mini closed column. Going to try a 10 minute soak this time.

I am going to be working with a closed loop system shortly. Any tips for running these babies besides keep everything dry dry dry, cold cold cold?

Lol yeah get DZ to help ya !!

deeppurple87 · Oct 13, 2015

bigganjabud said:
Lol yeah get DZ to help ya !!

Hahahaha. He will be there guiding me of course! I am just trying to learn as much as I can beforehand!

deeppurple87 · Oct 14, 2015

Todays batch

bigganjabud · Oct 14, 2015

How much did you use this time?

Old Gold · Oct 14, 2015

85-90F under vacuum.
Released vacuum, and rolled patty out or allowed to melt down in oven every time major bubbling ceased (did this maybe every hour for the first 6). Spent somewhere between 8-10 hrs in there.
It's a mix of some super dandy outdoors.

As far as I've seen, all I'm doing by making glassy shatters with no dewax, is locking up butane and air in there. Hundreds of slabs later and I'm pretty damn sure of it..

But, what can I do, sometimes you gotta cater to the patient market. I just keep tryna educate (myself and others).

Oh, and air bubbles like you see here go away on their own, at any ambient temperature over the course of a few days. Vaporizes with minimal residue.

deeppurple87 · Oct 15, 2015

What pressures are you using? You pull a deep enough vac and warm it up enough them bubbles will pop. Sometimes I'll pull it way past the -30 needle to pop tricky bubbles.

Also I go for temps of 107-108 with shatter. You can't go for too long at these temps without waxing/darkening so if it waxes I make honeycomb! I am certain, I'm pulling out most all of the solvents, but plenty of unneeded terps as well. In other words over-purging

Lab tests soon will tell! I am going to test a series of shatters same strain, different purging techniques to see at what points solvents are gone and terpenes/airbubbles are just being sucked up.

deeppurple87 · Oct 15, 2015

About the same BGB a little less than last time.

Old Gold · Oct 15, 2015

deeppurple87 said:
What pressures are you using? You pull a deep enough vac and warm it up enough them bubbles will pop. Sometimes I'll pull it way past the -30 needle to pop tricky bubbles.

Also I go for temps of 107-108 with shatter. You can't go for too long at these temps without waxing/darkening so if it waxes I make honeycomb! I am certain, I'm pulling out most all of the solvents, but plenty of unneeded terps as well. In other words over-purging

Lab tests soon will tell! I am going to test a series of shatters same strain, different purging techniques to see at what points solvents are gone and terpenes/airbubbles are just being sucked up.

They're only air bubbles. They'll escape on their own
Full vacuum with pump running the whole time. Not always my go to, but it makes for some quick glassy shatter.
Try not to go over 95F for shatter. You won't darken it, or lose much flavor at all. And waxes don't seem to want to coagulate until day 5 or so under vacuum.
Just because your needle reads past -30 does not mean you've pulled beyond full vacuum..

bigganjabud · Oct 15, 2015

deeppurple87 said:
About the same BGB a little less than last time.

OK family seeing as I'm getting your exact set up can you push a max run so I know how much I'm looking from one run?????

OK bigggajaquestion for 100 Jaffa cakes can you do a qwiso run and a bho run for lab analysis? (I ask because I know you a) needs dem Jaffa cakes!! And b) wanna prove to me that qwiso is weaker than bho (even especially approved bigganjabud over purged deep purple super James Bond double oh scrog fan reporting for duty on sweet seeds behalf sir type taffy/honeycombs/shatter type stuff drill sgt sir !!)

Also another reason for asking is my arrithmathic skills suggest a qwiso run is by far cheaper than a bho run even considering a closed loop recovery vs a super pure 99.9% qwiso run that has been sent with according to a lot of graywolf and a shit tonne of YouTube

So my brother (and you know I use that term sincerely!) Can you run a secret side by side and let the lab decide my chosen extraction method?

Please can you donate my portion (well a 3.5 will do !) To th3 purpose of science on behalf of a bro that ain't legal to grow!!!!! Pretty please??

Il even get you a curley whirley!!!

And the fact I'm the first person to give this thread a 5* rating makes you know I think you are as educational as an episode of sesame St!!!!

So where's everyone from? (Just say what country as I'm not asking for full credit history!)

I'm from the UK the laws are shit here in regards to ganja but I'm a me and my Mrs grower with a tendency to look after those who look after me!!!

Plus me and purpz are related as we both grow from the same catalogue

Plus without deeppurpz I'd have stayed well clear of extracts in the first place

Oh purpz BTW I did message you about my good news so when it arrives we can smoke out some dabs over the Skype or faceymabook (not sure on u.s version lmfao )#slightydrunkplussmokingfirstbitofjack47

deeppurple87 · Oct 15, 2015

Old Gold said:
They're only air bubbles. They'll escape on their own
Full vacuum with pump running the whole time. Not always my go to, but it makes for some quick glassy shatter.
Try not to go over 95F for shatter. You won't darken it, or lose much flavor at all. And waxes don't seem to want to coagulate until day 5 or so under vacuum.
Just because your needle reads past -30 does not mean you've pulled beyond full vacuum..

I have tried 90, 95, 100, 105, 110 but I am using a chamber with heatpad, not oven. You are right I can leave it for hours before this waxing happens at lower temps , but I find the oil tends to muffin up and just stay there at these temps (instead of reacting/purging. That is why I turn it up a bit to accelerate things. If I had an oven I bet things would be different as far as that goes.

As far as the needle goes... I understand physics/chemistry my man, took physics and chem 1+2 PV=nRT!

deeppurple87 · Oct 15, 2015

bigganjabud said:
OK family seeing as I'm getting your exact set up can you push a max run so I know how much I'm looking from one run?????

OK bigggajaquestion for 100 Jaffa cakes can you do a qwiso run and a bho run for lab analysis? (I ask because I know you a) needs dem Jaffa cakes!! And b) wanna prove to me that qwiso is weaker than bho (even especially approved bigganjabud over purged deep purple super James Bond double oh scrog fan reporting for duty on sweet seeds behalf sir type taffy/honeycombs/shatter type stuff drill sgt sir !!)

Also another reason for asking is my arrithmathic skills suggest a qwiso run is by far cheaper than a bho run even considering a closed loop recovery vs a super pure 99.9% qwiso run that has been sent with according to a lot of graywolf and a shit tonne of YouTube

So my brother (and you know I use that term sincerely!) Can you run a secret side by side and let the lab decide my chosen extraction method?

Please can you donate my portion (well a 3.5 will do !) To th3 purpose of science on behalf of a bro that ain't legal to grow!!!!! Pretty please??

Il even get you a curley whirley!!!

And the fact I'm the first person to give this thread a 5* rating makes you know I think you are as educational as an episode of sesame St!!!!

So where's everyone from? (Just say what country as I'm not asking for full credit history!)

I'm from the UK the laws are shit here in regards to ganja but I'm a me and my Mrs grower with a tendency to look after those who look after me!!!

Plus me and purpz are related as we both grow from the same catalogue

Plus without deeppurpz I'd have stayed well clear of extracts in the first place

Oh purpz BTW I did message you about my good news so when it arrives we can smoke out some dabs over the Skype or faceymabook (not sure on u.s version lmfao )#slightydrunkplussmokingfirstbitofjack47

HAHAHA BGB!
honestly my man you know my opinion on the qwiso. Nobody is running it at all around here, I know nothing about it and couldn't help you out much. I wouldn't even want to try making it when I'm so close to BHO mastery. I would get on it quick to BGB. You could be the UK DAB master. go BHO!

dabmat · Oct 17, 2015

Is it possible the higher heat goo issue is because you are decarbing more? If I understand what I've been reading correctly, the more you decarb, the less stable the material will be, due to the fact that THCA has a far more stable structure than THC, so when you decarb turning the THCA into THC, you are making it more gooey? Just something I was thinking about. Fascinating thread.

I also heard that outdoor plants have far more waxes and fats in them than indoor, since the outdoor plants have to contend with nature, not a perfectly climate controlled environment. Not sure how true it is, though would be interesting to test it.

deeppurple87 · Oct 17, 2015

I will soon be working for a caregiving collective running trims of all sorts. Also with lab analyzation I will be able to test that to a certain extent soon enough!

Glad you enjoy the thread my man!

As far as decarbing, I would agree thats whats occuring. I am just curious how people are doing it at those temps w/o that happening. Furrywall and I have had the same results above 135-140 with multiple strains and attempts.

I honestly would've given up trying this hot method a while ago, if Wolfy didnt put his seal of approval on the technique
The trick (as i'm sure you know) to avoiding wax is keeping everything super cold, and the material super dry.

Old Gold · Oct 17, 2015

deeppurple87 said:
I have tried 90, 95, 100, 105, 110 but I am using a chamber with heatpad, not oven. You are right I can leave it for hours before this waxing happens at lower temps , but I find the oil tends to muffin up and just stay there at these temps (instead of reacting/purging. That is why I turn it up a bit to accelerate things. If I had an oven I bet things would be different as far as that goes.

As far as the needle goes... I understand physics/chemistry my man, took physics and chem 1+2 PV=nRT!

Lol, I wasn't taking shots at your education! It's a commonly asked question. Where I'm at, my ovens read -25.5 at full vacuum.
As far as the muffin locking up, that doesn't change with an oven. It changes with temperature, as you see. I've found that purging a thin-filmed muffing for 3 days, then lightly melting it down (85F and sitting sandwiched under textbooks) makes for some beautifully clear and glassy shatter.

dabmat said:
Is it possible the higher heat goo issue is because you are decarbing more? If I understand what I've been reading correctly, the more you decarb, the less stable the material will be, due to the fact that THCA has a far more stable structure than THC, so when you decarb turning the THCA into THC, you are making it more gooey? Just something I was thinking about. Fascinating thread.

I also heard that outdoor plants have far more waxes and fats in them than indoor, since the outdoor plants have to contend with nature, not a perfectly climate controlled environment. Not sure how true it is, though would be interesting to test it.

Everything you said is pretty much on point.
I will say that I'm running some outdoors right now would beg to differ our claims. Testing in at around 24.5% THC-A and 0.5% ∆9-THC. From which I concentrated sugar leaf trimmings (look at my picture a few posts back). Glassy glassy glass.
As far as some of the indoors I blew through last month: Sour D was a huge yielder but mad waxy and darker. GDP crumbled quickly with it's wax content, was very nice and blonde and tasty, but seemed to get nobody high..
So material is everything. Don't forget to tip Mr. Greenthumb!

deeppurple87 said:
As far as decarbing, I would agree thats whats occuring. I am just curious how people are doing it at those temps w/o that happening. Furrywall and I have had the same results above 135-140 with multiple strains and attempts.

I've only had success doing so with fully winterized product. I can upload pictures of the latest in the oven within the next 24 hrs.
It's currently at 115F...last time I flipped it, the exposed side was nice and smooth. I was able to flip with my hands (and gloves of course). Should be more than stable when it finishes.

deeppurple87 · Oct 17, 2015

Old Gold said:
Lol, I wasn't taking shots at your education! It's a commonly asked question. Where I'm at, my ovens read -25.5 at full vacuum.
As far as the muffin locking up, that doesn't change with an oven. It changes with temperature, as you see. I've found that purging a thin-filmed muffing for 3 days, then lightly melting it down (85F and sitting sandwiched under textbooks) makes for some beautifully clear and glassy shatter.

Everything you said is pretty much on point.
I will say that I'm running some outdoors right now would beg to differ our claims. Testing in at around 24.5% THC-A and 0.5% ∆9-THC. From which I concentrated sugar leaf trimmings (look at my picture a few posts back). Glassy glassy glass.
As far as some of the indoors I blew through last month: Sour D was a huge yielder but mad waxy and darker. GDP crumbled quickly with it's wax content, was very nice and blonde and tasty, but seemed to get nobody high..
So material is everything. Don't forget to tip Mr. Greenthumb!

I've only had success doing so with fully winterized product. I can upload pictures of the latest in the oven within the next 24 hrs.
It's currently at 115F...last time I flipped it, the exposed side was nice and smooth. I was able to flip with my hands (and gloves of course). Should be more than stable when it finishes.

Thanks for the info my man.

you pull -25.5 at full vac? whats ur altitude? what type of pump as far as CFM ratings and single/dual stage?

I often don't even get reactions until I hit that point (-25inHG) What's your avg atmospheric pressure there?

Intoxicus5 · Oct 17, 2015

https://www.reddit.com/r/CannabisExtracts/comments/3oi21g/thca_pseudopolymorphism/

deeppurple87 · Oct 17, 2015

Intoxicus5 said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CannabisExtracts/comments/3oi21g/thca_pseudopolymorphism/

Interesting lil thread there. Thanks for that!

Old Gold · Oct 17, 2015

deeppurple87 said:
Thanks for the info my man.

you pull -25.5 at full vac? whats ur altitude? what type of pump as far as CFM ratings and single/dual stage?

I often don't even get reactions until I hit that point (-25inHG) What's your avg atmospheric pressure there?

About 4500 ft. Just past -25.5", not quite -26"
Not sure about the ambient pressure here as I don't have a barometer handy, but based on my readings, should be about 12-12.4 PSIA
I use a dual stage (12 cfm) with an ultimate vacuum rating of 0.3 Pascals (2 micron). Pretty deep, huh?! I haven't properly tested it's capabilities with a micron guage, but would like to. This pump pulls on two 0.9 cu ft ovens as well as two 3-gallon purging pots.

I also have a newer Robinair 6cfm with a 20 micron vacuum rating, but mainly use that for vacuuming my closed-loop.

Old Gold · Oct 17, 2015

I get very rapid boils starting at -22ish

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