Why would you pH your water then add items that will affect the pH of the water you just pH'd?
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House & Garden Nutrients
- Thread starter Biatchzxz
- Start date
Why would you pH your water then add items that will affect the pH of the water you just pH'd?
personally i have always ph the water last, there is no need to ph the water before adding nutes, ph the water after adding nutes, then ph after adding additives...all this ph up and ph down will certainly add to ppms and add unwanted added N, P or K depending what you are using for ph +/-....just my 2cents...always worked for me like this but i am in soil and have 0 experience in hydro(any hydro advice i give out is just theory and experience with plants in general)
Oh believe me it sounded strange to me also because I used to always PH last also. And when I read to PH before adding additives i too was confused. But that's what the directions say. Of course the additives usually drive the PH crazy no matter what so I guess that's why they say PH the bAse n then add the rest. I forgot the exact reason why. But from what it says.
After adjusting PH add appropriate stimulants. ph may lower after adding stimulants due to the live microbial nature of the stimulant and will correct itself. Which makes sense to me. And this didn't mean that you should do it with any other company. This is what H&G calls for. So I'm just following directions. I didn't make it up. But just you guys know it def sounded weird to me too but I have had amazing results so obviously I'm doing something right
After adjusting PH add appropriate stimulants. ph may lower after adding stimulants due to the live microbial nature of the stimulant and will correct itself. Which makes sense to me. And this didn't mean that you should do it with any other company. This is what H&G calls for. So I'm just following directions. I didn't make it up. But just you guys know it def sounded weird to me too but I have had amazing results so obviously I'm doing something right
Here we go
Q: Why do I adjust PH before adding stimulants?
House and Garden stimulants are stored in very acidic solutions to maintain the biological life living inside.* When added to the nutrient reservoir it will cause a fluctuation in your previously adjusted PH level. Once everything stabilizes and the biological life goes to work, the PH will naturally correct itself and* come back up within the range that had previously been set.
Q: Why do I adjust PH before adding stimulants?
House and Garden stimulants are stored in very acidic solutions to maintain the biological life living inside.* When added to the nutrient reservoir it will cause a fluctuation in your previously adjusted PH level. Once everything stabilizes and the biological life goes to work, the PH will naturally correct itself and* come back up within the range that had previously been set.
Exactly how acidic is that solution? How much are you adding to what size reservoir and how much of an affect does it have on the pH of the res?
36 gal res(about 140 liters) i add 140 ml of algen extract as label says(1 ml/L)
shooting powder added as directed(1 pack of SP per 100L first week and 2 packs of SP per 100L the second and 3rd weed with base nutes lowered to 650ppm)
well after i add my base nutes, if i ph to 6.3 then add algen extract my ph goes up to 6.7-6.8...
well after i add my base nutes, if i ph to 6.3 then add shooting powder my ph goes up to 7+(dont remember quite what its been a while i only used it once)
Yeah the alg extract raises ph a little. That's why I add it last. but
If you have ever checked it after a day ull see that the Ph levels back out. Def be careful with that alg extract it's pretty potent stuff 1ml is def good enough.
A lot of peole like using KB powder instead of the shooting powder. I know that the SP is super strong stuff and if your plants aren't nice and healthy before using it then u could have some issues Either or is just fine. I use both (different plants)
HB - I'm not 100% sure on how to answer your question because I'm not so sure and dot want to misguide you! I will try to find out and let you know. But just wanted to post why they suggest adding stimulants after PH. Either or I think it's ok. And I hadn't come across any issues
If you have ever checked it after a day ull see that the Ph levels back out. Def be careful with that alg extract it's pretty potent stuff 1ml is def good enough.
A lot of peole like using KB powder instead of the shooting powder. I know that the SP is super strong stuff and if your plants aren't nice and healthy before using it then u could have some issues Either or is just fine. I use both (different plants)
HB - I'm not 100% sure on how to answer your question because I'm not so sure and dot want to misguide you! I will try to find out and let you know. But just wanted to post why they suggest adding stimulants after PH. Either or I think it's ok. And I hadn't come across any issues
greenthumbdub
Member
I run coco a&b and have noticed big problems with the way hg tells you how to feed. Maybe its my plants or my set up but in veg/early flower i dont go past .4-.6 ec, if I do I get deficient and burns.
As of now I am only running a&b and drip clean in veg with added calmag. I've found most of the other additives to either do nothing for me or they make things worse. In flower I run a&b, drip clean, bud xl and top booster with added calmag
I am in blumats so maybe its the constant feed but my plants do NOT like even the normal feed chart, I have to be way lower in ec. I basically use HG like its any other nutrient without a chart, I just experiment until I find what keeps my plants green and happy.
Idk if anyone has tried liquid koolbloom in early 12/12 with hg but I'm gonna give it a shot this run and see if I cant swell up my buds a little earlier
Edit: Also I have noticed that the additives in HG are what gives me more ph drift. I add A then mix for about 5-10 minutes, then add B and mix the same. Mix calmag then I ph up to 5.6-6.0 and finally add drip clean. Keeps my PH locked in just about perfect, the only way that it really shifts on me is if my nute mix gets too warm
As of now I am only running a&b and drip clean in veg with added calmag. I've found most of the other additives to either do nothing for me or they make things worse. In flower I run a&b, drip clean, bud xl and top booster with added calmag
I am in blumats so maybe its the constant feed but my plants do NOT like even the normal feed chart, I have to be way lower in ec. I basically use HG like its any other nutrient without a chart, I just experiment until I find what keeps my plants green and happy.
Idk if anyone has tried liquid koolbloom in early 12/12 with hg but I'm gonna give it a shot this run and see if I cant swell up my buds a little earlier
Edit: Also I have noticed that the additives in HG are what gives me more ph drift. I add A then mix for about 5-10 minutes, then add B and mix the same. Mix calmag then I ph up to 5.6-6.0 and finally add drip clean. Keeps my PH locked in just about perfect, the only way that it really shifts on me is if my nute mix gets too warm
Why not just measure it?
Ok so besides the A & B CoCo being the base of it all what else should I be adding for a full start to finish cycle?
Right now I would be using 6mL/g micro and 9mL/g bloom along with a 2mL/g of cal/Mg and about 1mL/g of potassium silicate for my veg. This has been working great for me.
Then for flower all I do is use the same mix but I supplement KoolBloom at 1tsp/g of mix weather it is my veg mix that I use for the first 29 days of flower, or my bloom mix of just 9mL/g of bloom along with the Cal/Mg and silicate that I use for the last 23 days of flower.
Then at the end for the last 12 days I use a mix of florakleen and water to flush. I use the florakleen mix only 3 times out of the last 12 days of flush the rest is just plain water ph at 5.5 to 6.0
I have been reading that you have to use the A & B in conjunction with the other products like I would be with the GH products. Should I just use the cal/mg and potassium silicate with the A & B? Or is there a H&G product that ads this too it?
Then the flower cycle I noticed there is the shooting powder along with I think its called budXL both are very pricey the whole line is pricey. as long as the final product is better that's all that counts.
I am just a little confused right now about it all, maybe I need to do some more reading up on the whole line a little bit more before I go and jump into it blind. I don't think I have enough posts yet to be able to PM yet so until then can you please shed some light on this for me. More or less just break it down for me what I would use from H&G to imitate what I am currently using. I am very interested in giving it a go but like every one out there they have their budgets to work with. The money I would be spending on new fertz. could buy my new mother and clone tent that I so desperately need to get before anything else. Let me know though, that would be awesome if you could do that for me.
Hotbox -
Hey man. * *Yeah the base nutes have a nice amount of cal/mag in them already. That you don't really need to add the cal/mag. *ALTHOUGH! Some strains. OG/SD. Are cal/mag whores so you can add the extra cal/mg. * And they do say that it's fine using it. *Now the silica. (I Love silica
. * The Amino Treatment additive they released. Is the Silica and Amino acids you can use for that. * Multi-Zen also helps thicken stalks up and strengthen and boost the immune system n helping dispose residuals in he plants medium.
Bud XL - used in the beginning of flowering after transition period from veg to flower. * Has the ability to extract sugars from the leaves and transfer them to the fruit.
Top Booster - 13% P , 14% And chelated Iron - helps trigger the aggressive part of flowering
Shooting Powder- *Pretty much restarts the aggressive part of flowering and starts growing flower on top of flowers. * (Could be subsituted with Kool Bloom) as a finisher
Now check it though. *This doesn't mean you have to use. The whole line to get good results. In fact you can mix and match your favorite additives along with it given at safe levels without over doing it. * Before I add anything I always try to really find out wat each additive has so you don't end up doubling up and burning them. * Especially with the Bloom Stiumulants. They all contain such high levels of PK that if you don't back off a little on your base nutes you could possibily burn them. * Also H&G doesn't have a separate AB for veg and bloom. So you never have to worry about that either. *
Truthfully I know sometimes it's hard to make a change when your used to using something that works for you already. *But. If your curious to do so. Shoot em an email. I'm sure they'll take care of you. *Roots Excel is a MUST in my opinion. * Shit works so amazing it's just mind blowing man. *Never had happier *roots. * Like i said though you don't have to use the additives to get good results. You could just use the AB and whatever else you'd like to use from there. * *I hope I cleared up some questions. *If I didnt. Just ask away dude. That's why I started this thread is to Educate and to GET educated by others experience. *Can't ever have to much information. And I love to hear people's opinion whether positive or negative feedback it's feedback
Hey man. * *Yeah the base nutes have a nice amount of cal/mag in them already. That you don't really need to add the cal/mag. *ALTHOUGH! Some strains. OG/SD. Are cal/mag whores so you can add the extra cal/mg. * And they do say that it's fine using it. *Now the silica. (I Love silica
. * The Amino Treatment additive they released. Is the Silica and Amino acids you can use for that. * Multi-Zen also helps thicken stalks up and strengthen and boost the immune system n helping dispose residuals in he plants medium.Bud XL - used in the beginning of flowering after transition period from veg to flower. * Has the ability to extract sugars from the leaves and transfer them to the fruit.
Top Booster - 13% P , 14% And chelated Iron - helps trigger the aggressive part of flowering
Shooting Powder- *Pretty much restarts the aggressive part of flowering and starts growing flower on top of flowers. * (Could be subsituted with Kool Bloom) as a finisher
Now check it though. *This doesn't mean you have to use. The whole line to get good results. In fact you can mix and match your favorite additives along with it given at safe levels without over doing it. * Before I add anything I always try to really find out wat each additive has so you don't end up doubling up and burning them. * Especially with the Bloom Stiumulants. They all contain such high levels of PK that if you don't back off a little on your base nutes you could possibily burn them. * Also H&G doesn't have a separate AB for veg and bloom. So you never have to worry about that either. *
Truthfully I know sometimes it's hard to make a change when your used to using something that works for you already. *But. If your curious to do so. Shoot em an email. I'm sure they'll take care of you. *Roots Excel is a MUST in my opinion. * Shit works so amazing it's just mind blowing man. *Never had happier *roots. * Like i said though you don't have to use the additives to get good results. You could just use the AB and whatever else you'd like to use from there. * *I hope I cleared up some questions. *If I didnt. Just ask away dude. That's why I started this thread is to Educate and to GET educated by others experience. *Can't ever have to much information. And I love to hear people's opinion whether positive or negative feedback it's feedback
Biatchzxz said:
Your definition of salt must be different than mine.
House and Garden coco A/B said:
Drip Clean is just watered down PeKacid.
Drip Clean 24% P2O5 and 8% K2O
PeKacid 60% P2O5 and 20% K2O
24/60=0.4
20 X 0.4= 8
Don't use them then. What am I supposed to even say anymore I never said they don't have any salts at all.H&G is very low on salts due to the time spent breaking the product down into a more usable form which also removes excess salts. I never want to misguide anyone or give bullshit info. I don't just make this shit up as I go. I gather all the info I can from them and just pass it on. If you took the time out to actually so some reading up maybe you would see this. Bottom line is. Don't use them if you don't want to. It doesn't matter to me. I'm just trying to shed some light is all for those wwho are interested. I never bad mouth any other company because it's just not right or fair to make judgements on something I don't have personal experience with. One used em all out there trust me. And needless to say if you know what your doing on the first place you could make anything work. At thus point it's just silly to talk bad about them if you never even given them a chance.
Lol I'm not getting pissy at you bro. I promise. It wasn't meant like that directly towards you. I appologize if I came off that way. Not my intentions. And avenger not for nothing bro. I'm shitting you not. I really do need a haircut which mad me laugh when u said that and to get a real job. Bro are you spying on me? Lol. No but seriously my bad
interesting, i have always wanted to know what that stuff is made of, H@G wont tell me...
a few years ago, we were arguing on here weather or not it was just a "water wetter" agent...
what you link doesn't explain that it works the way the Drip Clean works...
drip clear is some wierd shit, it DOES make it so there is ZERO salt buildup, although i HAVE NO CLUE HOW....
you CAN clearly see the salts at the top of your pot or cube when you use drip clean, but it DOES NOT effect ppm or anything...
its like it makes the salt non active, odd shit......
BUT I KNOW IT WORKS LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER!!
We are all just here to have fun bro. And sometimes I like to poke people in the ribs.
sounds similar to a buffer to prevent "clouding of the water" or possible "binding of the salts"...not sure though thats just my interpretation of what i read on that site...
http://www.iclfertilizers.com/Fertilizers/Knowledge%20Center/PeKacid.pdf
Pekacid | 0.60.20
PeKacid ™ 0-60-20 is a new, innovative P solution for calcareous soils and hard water.
PeKacid ™ is a new, specially tailored PK fertilizer for fertigation (open-field and soilless culture) under conditions of:
- Acid MKP
- Highly acidic PK fertilizer with pH = 2,2
- Special fertigation grade
- Fully water soluble
- Exceptionally high solubility
- Enhances nutrient uptake
- Anticlogging action
- Chloride, sodium and nitrogen-free
- Easy to transport, store, handle and use.
PeKacid ™ is a solid acid in dry form, combining the advantages and efficiency of phosphoric acid with the ease and safety of handling of a solid crystalline fertilizer such as MKP.
- Hard waters (high pH and high content of bicarbonates HCO3), and/or
- Calcareous soils(with free calcium carbonate CaCO3)
PeKacid™ decreases the pH pf water and soil, thus improving nutrient availability and nutrinet uptake efficiency and increasing yields and quality of crops.
PeKacid™'s acidifying power increases the uptake of many nutrients and helps in releasing fixed micronutrients (Fe, Zn, Mn, Cu) in calcareous /alkaline soils.
PeKacid™ supplies H2PO4 - (orthophosphate) ion, which is readily available form of phosphorus (P). Its acidifying power decreases the P fixation in the fertigated zone of the calcareous soil, thus improving the uptake of phosphorus.
Integrating PeKacid™ in the early season application provides an excellent starter fertilizer, ensuring quick and strong crop development.
Since PeKacid™ is a nitrogen-free fertilizer; it allows full and independent control over the N level in the fertigation program, either by choosing the best form of complementary N or by refraining from N application, in accordance with the requirements of the crop.
In soluble NPK formulae containing PeKacid™, calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg) fertilizers can be mixed. PeKacid™ could be mixed with Urea easily, so the Nitrogen cost will be decreased in NPK mixes
Keep the System Clean
PeKacid™ provides acidity to neutralize and dissolve bicarbonates, thus avoiding the problem of scaling and clogging of pipes and emitters/nozzles in the sensitive drip irrigation system:
Increased longevity of drip irrigation system is an additional special benefit when applying PeKacid™ under subsurface drip irrigation
- Longer lifespan of the irrigation systems.
- Uniform and efficient distribution of irrigation water and fertilizers.
- Less work needed.
- No additional acid needed.
http://www.drt.com.tr/eng/Nutrition.aspx?page=straight
Weird or not, there are no coincidences in chemistry.
PeKacid is marketed to fertilizer professionals, House and Garden is marketed to impressionable laymen. I especially like H&G's use of the word "dirt".
