Whats up with my roots?

inreplyavalon · Jun 3, 2011

Hiya folks.
Been using the same regiment of non chlorinated water, sm-90, roots excellerator, plus GH nutrients for a few years now and all of a sudden i am having some root issues.
They are brown, almost see-through, dont smell bad, but seems to be contagious.
I do not ever overwater. I let them get dry when they are young and the plants usually thrive.

I have dropped the roots excel and instead been using chlorinated water, every other watering h202 and then bleach, and some sensizyme. Still look terrible. I even took three ladies and rinsed them in a bucket and put them in some fresh coco and they still look like crap.

Here are two of the plants receiving exactly the same care. Any thoughts?

MIway · Jun 4, 2011

Only other thing I can think of is root aphids... for such a drastic difference that isn't rot.

I'd even say that you can see the run of a root... and mid sections are going that mushy brown... yet up higher & down lower in the root run you see healthy white. As if something in the middle started fukn up the root.

Aphids, be my guess. Little dark & black darth vader looking fukrs w a red mark on the back of the black adults. At the very least, they look much the same as what I have seen. Imid... bayer complete.

inreplyavalon · Jun 4, 2011

MIway said:
I'd even say that you can see the run of a root... and mid sections are going that mushy brown... yet up higher & down lower in the root run you see healthy white. As if something in the middle started fukn up the root.

What Up MiWay! Thanks for checking them out, and yeah thats a good description of whats going on. Its weird; a main root will be mushy, and then a side shoot off of the main root will be white and furry. My month old veg plants are all suffering, tons of dieficiencies since they have no roots to eat. My 3 week old ones are starting to have issues. So far about 5/20, and it seems a new one each day is getting it. Depressing as a mofo.
Like i said i have been hitting them up with 30% h202 and some bleach and they are not improving. It seems like they are still putting out healthy roots, but eventually they are turning nasty. The plants are trying, and other than whatever is going on, the conditions are hospitable.
I took a few out of their cups and checked out the roots under a 30x mag and i did not see anything moving. I know Root Aphids are small and nasty but i am holding out hope it is not them...I once dealt with them in another garden many moons ago. I know all about imidacloprid and hope to not have to buy some more. I'll keep looking for the buggers and in the meantime, uhhhh....pray?

First time i have had issues in my veg and flower room in a LONG time! It keeps me humble which is a good thing.

Green lung · Jun 4, 2011

overwatering.......For real

inreplyavalon · Jun 4, 2011

Green lung said:
overwatering.......For real

I don't know man. That plant on the top there has enough roots to be watered twice a day. That is also what the one below once looked like. and i am only watering every other day, or whenever they only have maybe 1/10 the weight as normal.
Been starting plants and seeds in these keg cup and coco for a good many days now and i am confident watering is one of the few things i have a handle on.
Though i appreciate your opinion Green Lung, and your sharing it. :thank you:

inreplyavalon · Jun 4, 2011

I forgot to mention that plant above that is hurting was Very dry before i watered it, and then snapped the photo coincidentally and few minutes later, which is why its so wet looking.

inreplyavalon · Jun 4, 2011

though i have been watering to about 100% runoff, but with the wet/dry cycle i have never found that to be a problem, and the drainage in the cups is plentiful

dgr · Jun 4, 2011

Those plants are the same otherwise? Man, that's fucked up.

Sorry I don't have anything of value to add except I hope you root out the problem.

Granger2 · Jun 4, 2011

> i have been hitting them up with 30% h202 and some bleach and
> they are not improving. It seems like they are still putting out
> healthy roots, but eventually they are turning nasty.

Surely you don't mean 30%. If so, that would cause root damage.
-granger

inreplyavalon · Jun 4, 2011

3ml per gallon of 30% h202. as prescribed.

dgr thanks for the well wishes!

Guest3498 · Jun 4, 2011

If you have root aphids you should be able to see the young ones sucking on the roots. The fully grown adults look almost like fungus knats but if I'm not mistaken their wings will be longer than their bodies. Unlike fungus knats they will actually fly and hide from you.

If you got them order some "merit 75" and some sort of enzyme (I use hygrozyme). The merit to kill all the little bastards and the enzymes to dissolve their carcasses to avoid any other rootzone problems.

LetsSeeYa · Jun 4, 2011

you dont have them in black cups do ya? just wondered if they are getting too hot. but other then that i have to say a bit to much water so thats what i have,........

Good luck bro

LSY

Kcar · Jun 4, 2011

I would drop the SM-90 as it's a surfactant, bring back the RE, and add some perlite
in the future.

inreplyavalon · Jun 4, 2011

VADO said:
If you have root aphids you should be able to see the young ones sucking on the roots. The fully grown adults look almost like fungus knats but if I'm not mistaken their wings will be longer than their bodies. Unlike fungus knats they will actually fly and hide from you.

If you got them order some "merit 75" and some sort of enzyme (I use hygrozyme). The merit to kill all the little bastards and the enzymes to dissolve their carcasses to avoid any other rootzone problems.

Thanks VADO I looked with my 30x magnifier and could ot make out any obvious insect on the roots. What looked like some pieces of coco that were stuck to roots. root aphids, even the small ones, would be easily identiffiable under a 30x mag, no? Or at least i would be able to tell if its a speck of coco or a bug, i would think...?

LSY No black cups. Red and blue, good thought though!

Kcar i will drop the sm-90 as per your suggestion. Yeah probably dont need a surfactant, but i am reluctant to trade my bleach for roots excel at this point. Roots excel seems to be great when things are happy in the root zone, but when things get nasty i believe more in bleach. I went with the roots excel beofre it happened and a week into it.

Kcar · Jun 4, 2011

I would use H202 instead of bleach, if the SM-90 made your roots mushy.
They both kill bacteria (H2o2 a little better) but the h2o2 breaks down into h2o
whereas the NaClO may make it into the roots causing more probs.
How do the leaves look?

Green lung · Jun 4, 2011

I would say its overwatering or underwatering or most likely its a combo of both.

I run a lot plants through dixie cups and found that sometimes if I let them get to dry, many of the roots dry up and die and than grower comes and waters heavily the dixie with dead roots, now you have dead roots from being to dry and water logged medium making things worse.

Solution would be for you to not water to runoff with those damaged roots. Once those roots are damaged. Like that one you have in the pic that is damaged, don't water it fully just give enough water like a drip, it should even be enough to come out the bottom.

Its like when you have a young clone and it doesn't have that many roots if you keep the coco soggy the roots won't be as healthy. thats basically whats happening.

It sounds simple but often we try baby these plants and try to make it more complicated than it really is.

Also what will help is transplant those into biggerpots.

I have clone of alsakan ice that is real sesitive to overwatering so run into this problem all the time I have to real careful.

Just pay more attention how much water you give them especially the damaged ones and it will fix your problem

inreplyavalon · Jun 4, 2011

Kcar said:
I would use H202 instead of bleach, if the SM-90 made your roots mushy.
They both kill bacteria (H2o2 a little better) but the h2o2 breaks down into h2o
whereas the NaClO may make it into the roots causing more probs.
How do the leaves look?

Not sure it was the sm-90 that made the roots mushy, but i will go with h202 for now. Doesnt smell bad and so i am thinking maybe not any rot. Thanks for the tip

inreplyavalon · Jun 4, 2011

Green lung said:
I would say its overwatering or underwatering or most likely its a combo of both.

I run a lot plants through dixie cups and found that sometimes if I let them get to dry, many of the roots dry up and die and than grower comes and waters heavily the dixie with dead roots, now you have dead roots from being to dry and water logged medium making things worse.

Solution would be for you to not water to runoff with those damaged roots. Once those roots are damaged. Like that one you have in the pic that is damaged, don't water it fully just give enough water like a drip, it should even be enough to come out the bottom.

Its like when you have a young clone and it doesn't have that many roots if you keep the coco soggy the roots won't be as healthy. thats basically whats happening.

It sounds simple but often we try baby these plants and try to make it more complicated than it really is.

Also what will help is transplant those into biggerpots.

I have clone of alsakan ice that is real sesitive to overwatering so run into this problem all the time I have to real careful.

Just pay more attention how much water you give them especially the damaged ones and it will fix your problem

Ya know this makes sense, a lot. No bad smell and the plants are still occassionaly throwing out a few healthy roots. Maybe i am too erratic with the watering. Very cool of you to pick up on that and share it with me. I have been dealing with just clones for a few rounds and so must have regressed with my small seed plant skillz.
I raised the t5 from a few inches up about 8 inches and the plants managed to feel better in a matter of minutes. I have a terrible habit of BLASTING unhealthy plants with too much light!!! lol.
The three plants that had started looking bad most recently i began watering less but more often as of two days ago and they may be improving. I'll keep this updated.
I am weary of transplanting the ones without many roots into a bigger pot as it will take them a week to drink the water in it. I actually translplanted the four healthies about a week ago and two of four look good, the others are somewhat lacking. But lets not forget i have been abusing them with too much T5!
Peace and Love

couchlockd · Jun 4, 2011

have you done anything different with this set of planst than you did with the last set?

i have a theory. maybe you have always watered a bit on the heavy side, without issue cuzz it was jsut enough to NOT fuck the last bunch or so of plants.

then you see you are getting good harvest and such and maybe get lax in the gardening precision-ness and maybe watered this time around a little more than the last grows, were the last grows were at their water threshold, and now this little up shot of watering is putting them way over.

just a theory, not insulting you or anything, i actually experience wxactly what i described to you up top before, and realized it and caught it in time.'

with enzymes, roots excell. and i think did you mention any myco fungi. you should have super sick ass healthy teeth white tampon roots.

maybe something is amiss in you roots enhancment products. like a bottle turned bad.

is the roots excellerator in a metal bullet looking bottle you cant shake up?

inreplyavalon · Jun 4, 2011

couchlockd said:
have you done anything different with this set of planst than you did with the last set?

i have a theory. maybe you have always watered a bit on the heavy side, without issue cuzz it was jsut enough to NOT fuck the last bunch or so of plants.

then you see you are getting good harvest and such and maybe get lax in the gardening precision-ness and maybe watered this time around a little more than the last grows, were the last grows were at their water threshold, and now this little up shot of watering is putting them way over.

just a theory, not insulting you or anything, i actually experience wxactly what i described to you up top before, and realized it and caught it in time.'

with enzymes, roots excell. and i think did you mention any myco fungi. you should have super sick ass healthy teeth white tampon roots.

maybe something is amiss in you roots enhancment products. like a bottle turned bad.

is the roots excellerator in a metal bullet looking bottle you cant shake up?

Absolutely! I am sure i do shit like this all the time. I can get a bit mechanical in my garden when i am doing something i have done over and over. Definitely was just thinking the same thing today because the last few cycles i have not been as vigilant with cleaning my ccloner. This time i did and five days later roots are exploding. Funny you hit the nail on the head with that assumption! Cheers!

One question. Are you not supposed to shake the roots excel? I was shaking my bottle everytime, then my hydro guy made a comment about not shaking or circulating some tea he gave me, and then i was wondering if the roots excel is similar. Man thats double synchronicity with your post. Awesome..

Whats up with my roots?

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