maxibloom alone as lucas formula?

coconaut said:

Nutrient solutions and salt water tanks are like apples and oranges.
My nutrient solution never exceeds 1500ppm. Salt water is around 35,000ppm.

Cold temperatures aren't enough to cause nutrients to precipitate.
If your warm solution is maxed out with dissolved material, when it cools you will end up with a supersaturated solution.

Maybe the wrong ratio's of nutrients can cause some to fall out of solution. I don't know much about that though.

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toohighmf said:

I'm just spitballin here, but maybe PH at different temps creating more or less oxygen has something to do with precipitation... think how plants themselves lock out minerals. it too is on an ionic level.
Evlme2's PH is (I suspect) acidic. or low. I'm gonna go on a limb here and guess he's at 5-5.2 at the 80F solution temps, and the fact that he drains to waste, the low ph & high temps buffer the solution from precipitating. I wonder how a recirculating system would handle 80f solution w/o serious oxygenation.

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Carl Carlson said:

I think her magic EC wand is broekn.

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evlme2 said:

I shoulda been more specific. What I meant to say to *mistress* was explain how that even applies to the posters original question of whether Maxibloom can be used as Lucas.

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First she gave wrong info on what measurements equal what ratio, then she goes on to tell him to mix Maxi gro and Maxibloom together.

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DO I USE MAXIGROW AND MAXIBLOOM AT THE SAME TIME?
Answer: Yes and no. The Maxi series is designed to use one part at a time, but in a time of transition it may be beneficial to mix the two at half strength each (makes a full strength nutrient solution).

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Nutrient Solutions
A complication arises when using concentrated solutions, which are typically 100 to 200 times stronger than the normal nutrient solutions. At this strength calcium and most of the phosphate combine to precipitate insoluble calcium phosphate. To a lesser extent, calcium sulphate is also precipitated, as is iron phosphate.
These reactions are not a problem at normal feed strengths, because these compounds are sufficiently soluble at these much weaker strengths.

To avoid this complication the concentrated solution so split into two parts, usually referred to as "Part A" and "Part B". This split is to separate the calcium and iron from the phosphate and sulphate. Therefore Part A usually contains the calcium nitrate and iron chelate. Part B contains all the other fertilisers. These are then injected separately into the water flow to give a working strength solution which is fully soluble.

Extremes in pH can result in precipitation of certain nutrients.

For plant roots to be able to absorb nutrients, the nutrients must be dissolved in solution. The process of precipitation (the reverse of dissolving) results in the formation of solids in the nutrient solution, making nutrients unavailable to plants. Not all precipitation settles to the bottom of the tanks, some precipitates occur as very fine suspension invisible to the naked eye.

Plants can tell us their problems through leaf symptoms (e.g. Iron deficiency) when it's too late. Iron is one essential plant nutrient whose solubility is affected by pH which is why it is added in a chelated form (or daily). Iron deficiency symptoms occur readily. At pH values over 7, less than 50% of the Iron is available to plants. At pH 8.0, no Fe is left in solution due to iron hydroxide precipitation (Fe(OH)3 - which eventually converts to rust). As long as the pH is kept below 6.5, over 90% of the Iron is available to plants.

Varying pH of nutrient solutions also affects the solubility of calcium (Ca) and phosphorus (P). Due to calcium phosphate precipitation (Ca3(PO4)2) the availability of calcium and phosphorus decreases at pH values above 6.0. All other nutrients stay in solution and do not precipitate over a wide pH range. Poor water quality could exacerbate any precipitation reactions that may occur.

Generally in the pH range 4.0 to 6.0, all nutrients are available to plants. Precipitation reduces Iron, Calcium and Phosphorus availability at pH 6.0 and over.

Because of the tendency of some nutrients to combine with others and precipitate when concentrated the standard procedure is to prepare two solutions where precipitating components are kept separate. When a prepared solution is added to the nutrient water the concentrations are so low that precipitation does not cause any problems. Calcium phosphate and calcium sulphate are the main concern. Calcium is therefore kept away from phosphate and sulphate in the formulations. Never add both nutrients solutions together and then add into the water feed - valuable nutrients will precipitate and become unavailable.

Ideal water temperature for total solubility of the nutrient salts is 20 to 22C.

In hydroponic plant nutrition, nutrient solutions can be considered as aqueous solutions of inorganic ions. In this aqueous solution, the ions are submitted to the laws of aquatic inorganic chemistry. This means that the ions are involved in the dynamic equilibria between complexation, dissociation, and precipitation reactions. These chemical reactions seriously impact elemental speciation and bioavailability. As a result, plant roots experience a different nutritional composition. Ions withdrawn from the-nutrient solution due to precipitation reactions, change the nutritional composition and are not available for uptake by plant roots. Like complexes, precipitates can buffer a nutrient solution, exchanging nutrients as these decrease by plant uptake. In the concentration range of nutrient solutions, no precipitates are formed involving potassium (K+), nitrate (NO3-), ammonium (NH4+), or sulphate (SO42-), while calcium (Ca2+) and magnesium (Mg2+) form mainly at a higher pH precipitates with hydrogen phosphate (HPO42-). Preparing nutrient solutions with tap water, calcium carbonate (CaCO3) is likely to precipitate. A good knowledge of the chemical reactions occurring in nutrient solutions is the first prerequisite in hydroponic plant nutrition.

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Why are some nutrients split into an “A” and “B” formulas?
Nutrients are split into two formulations because the phosphorus, calcium and sulfur nutrients need to be separated from each other. If this is not done, then the calcium and phosphorus, as well as the calcium and sulfur, in high concentrations, will react with each other to form calcium phosphate (cement) and calcium sulfate (gypsum). Both calcium phosphate and calcium sulfate precipitate out of solution, forming a white precipitate (which will usually fall to the bottom of the reservoir), and are unavailable to the plants. This will cause phosphorus, calcium and sulfur deficiencies in the plant. Once these nutrients are mixed together in the reservoir they are at lower concentrations and also a pH balanced nutrient mix will prevent the three nutrients from reacting with each other. This is another reason why balancing pH is extremely important.

Some nutrients are one part such as FloraNova Grow and Bloom, are extremely thick and need to be shaken well before mixing into the reservoir. If these nutrients aren’t shaken well before use then the precipitates that have formed at the bottom of the bottle aren’t remixed into solution. This will cause deficiencies, slow growth and reduced yields.

Some nutrients also come in three parts. This is done with some brands of hobby hydroponic nutrient formulas so that the grower can mix the three parts in different ratios to create different solutions for the vegetative and bloom stages, as well as for different types of plants, without having to switch to a different product. Most commercial formulas, however, are two part (you’ll never see a commercial hydroponic farm using a one or three part nutrient formula; they are primarily for hobby growers).

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Mr.Meds said:

evlme2 What are you using to adjust your PH up and down? Thanks.

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evlme2 said:

General Hydroponics ph up.

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toohighmf said:

just to let you know. GH PH control is the most diluted food colored crap ever. you need to move to 30%+. drops... not caps...

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indifferent said:

I don't think Mono Potassium Phosphate drops PH, I think the reason that PK13-14 drops PH is that it's mono PK plus phosphoric acid and it's the phosphoric acid that causes the ph drop.

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