PH

Levitationofme · Mar 19, 2017

After reading a bunch of posts on organic growing I noticed some people who are very much
Against PHing wster for their organic gardens.
I understand that the microbes around the roots are capable of doing it where it matters most.

No problem understanding it, but I just dont think it's some difficult task to PH my water. It seems some people are proud they dont have to do it. Make a big deal about not having to do it.

I collect 5 gallon jugs of rainwater or R/O
Put the same 12 drops of ph down it it every time.
Always hit 6.5

I love that everyone has their methods that work for them, and the shear number of ingenious growing methods that work. So I am not suggesting anyone else change their ways. I am wondering if there is a reason not to ph my water first? Or is it just that its
Cool you dont have to.

Peace....

iloveweed123 · Mar 19, 2017

Unless you're using a organic way of lowing your ph then my guess is you're killing bacteria/fungi by using chemicals in organic soil ( i don't grow organic by the way )

Mikell · Mar 26, 2017

Bullshit conjecture.

Most pH down is a combination of citric and phosphoric acid. Citric inevitably chelates and phosphoric breaks down into guess what, nutrients.

There is little to most organic claims.

BurnOne · Mar 26, 2017

So, once the pH down (or up) and water goes into the organic soil, then what? Does it change the pH of the soil? If so, why? If not, why?
The less things you can use in your soil in my opinion the better. This plant will damn near grow anywhere.
Burn1

Mikell · Mar 27, 2017

I mean no offense, just that it seems a lot of claims are based on feelings.

I highly doubt 0.6ml per 5 gallon is going to ever effect anything, added or not.

pH'ing 8.0 0.8EC would be another matter, but then the larger issue would be a build up from hard water.

troutman · Mar 27, 2017

The pH down I have is diluted phosphoric acid.

They used to sell nitric acid also at my local grow shop but seem to have stopped carrying it.

I only use pH down sometimes when I think of it.

BurnOne · Mar 27, 2017

Let me give an abstract analogy of what I'm trying to say...
Orange juice is acidic. Before I drink it should I adjust the pH of the orange juice to match the pH of my body? Or will my body will take care of the pH?
Burn1

iloveweed123 · Mar 28, 2017

Mikell said:
Bullshit conjecture.

Most pH down is a combination of citric and phosphoric acid. Citric inevitably chelates and phosphoric breaks down into guess what, nutrients.

There is little to most organic claims.

I did say i didn't grow organic so a explanation would have surf iced, but what your saying goes
against everything ive ever read about it

MedResearcher · Mar 28, 2017

Ease and simplicity. Also agree with Burn1, I have seen huge pot plants just pop up in the worst and strangest conditions. A lot of the time the worst thing you can do is over coddle a plant. Coddle it to death!

Teaming with microbes is a good read. Its a little dry, but the basic concepts are great.

Wonder how the hash farmers in Afghanistan grew and bred without PH pens.

Mr^^

coxnox · Mar 28, 2017

MedResearcher said:
Ease and simplicity. Also agree with Burn1, I have seen huge pot plants just pop up in the worst and strangest conditions. A lot of the time the worst thing you can do is over coddle a plant. Coddle it to death!

Teaming with microbes is a good read. Its a little dry, but the basic concepts are great.

Wonder how the hash farmers in Afghanistan grew and bred without PH pens.

Mr^^

growing direct in soil or growing in a little container as we do is 2 completely differant things ^^

Mikell · Mar 28, 2017

Very true, just as there are many differences between a fresh mixed organic container soil and an active seasoned no-till bed.

BurnOne said:
Let me give an abstract analogy of what I'm trying to say...
Orange juice is acidic. Before I drink it should I adjust the pH of the orange juice to match the pH of my body? Or will my body will take care of the pH?
Burn1

I understand your position and tend to agree.

In a natural biologically active soil, pH is much less of a concern than say coco coir with soluble. As in my gut, additions of acids or bases induce reactions to neutralize them.

Continued additions can lead to problems. See: gallstones.

Frequently first timers tinker with tried and true recipes, such as yours, LC's, Coots, etc. Replacing lime with rock dust pops up a lot, I have also seen chicken grit, gypsum and eggshells substituting.

Couple that with raw peat and you're fucked, at least for a run or two.

But try and tell them to check medium pH and they qoute your signature.

truck · Mar 28, 2017

weather you PH or not has a lot to do with your Calcium to nitrogen ratio and Carbon to Organic matter ratio. If there is enough building blocks for life to get down and eat and continue the process on its own then no PH is needed, the soil will PH itself. If you have dead or sterile soil, or a soiless medium, you most likely will need to PH in order to chelate the mineral to feed it to the plant. In bio organics we depend on the microbes to break it down and feed it for us. Or use molasses which chelates or really any organic acid will chelate. Humic acid levels in your soil will help with all this too. As people have mentioned almost all things as they are broken down turn into some sort of acid. Even oyster shells will release phosphoric acid and bone meal will release nitric acid. bio dynamics is hydro on delay once you understand how to ramp up and super charge micro life at the right times. NPK ratios are like gear ratios. N you hit hard then shift towards P then hit the K hard. I look at it like this N then NP then NPK then PK then K. then i jusT PLAY with the numbers and carbs along the way. But obviously CA,MG,and S are big ones to not forget about in biodynamics as well. Its all about balance and timing.

Microbeman · Mar 28, 2017

Yikes!

BombBudPuffa · Mar 29, 2017

To answer the OP...convenience. I grow all organic in cooked soil feeding with teas and fish ferts. I never check pH, EC, etc. That's not bragging...just a fact but one I am very proud of.

What's more awesome than having your media work for you?

Here's a pic of some 3 week old plants fed once with a weak earthworm casting tea. I've basically just watered these since they sprouted. Easy gardening.

BurnOne · Mar 29, 2017

Microbeman said:
Yikes!

LOL

Mikell · Mar 29, 2017

Levitationofme said:
Or is it just that its
Cool you dont have to.

I believe they've summed up their position to concur with your findings.

Levitationofme · Mar 29, 2017

Agreed.
Always cool to stir the poop so to speak.
Not that I would ever be controversial
:friends:

Mikell · Mar 29, 2017

It was a lovely pot of soup.

I mix my feed at 1.2EC, pH comes out spot on. I packed my meter away two years ago.

Somehow I don't think that will gain me entry into the Kool Kats Klub.

See what I did there. I'm pretty fricken' hilarious in case you were unaware.

And always have time for a rhyme.

Microbeman · Mar 29, 2017

pH is something which I periodically checked but rarely adjusted. I don't see the practicality unless mixing feeds such as Mike described or unless you have water which is totally out of whack.

If you are growing naturally then you should be using as large a volume of soil as space permits. In this situation the pH should adjust according to the nutrient uptake in the rhizosphere.

Don't forget that pH is power of hydrogen (or potential) and the hydrogen is the component of acids released by roots and bacteria/archaea and fungi to ionize nutrients. [see root exudates sticky]

If you screw with pH unnecessarily, you are screwing this system.

If I grow the way I assumed Mike does (may be wrong) then I generally adjust pH to 5.4 to 5.7 depending on the nutrients being used.

ReikoX · Mar 29, 2017

Microbeman said:
pH is something which I periodically checked but rarely adjusted. I don't see the practicality unless mixing feeds such as Mike described or unless you have water which is totally out of whack.

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