Super Lemon Haze/Alaskan Ice in Coco- please help!

AceHaze · Apr 15, 2009

Hey!

Got some 2/3 week old seedlings of Super Lemon Haze, Alaskan Ice, Blue Cheese and Cheesel and some problems showed up :badday:

I´m using the Hesi Coco starter set (TNT, Roots, Enzymes) and stick to the Hesi feeding schedule. The ph is at a constant level of 5.8 and the temps are between 19 to 25 degrees.
Although I had never exceeded a 0.8 ec feeding solution and watered with enough run off, i had signs of over feeding and besides that, the leaves started to yellow. My tap water is quite hard (0.6 ec). After I repotted them into 6.5 liter pots, filled with BioNova Coco Bricks, that were soaked in 0.8 ec solution, the overfert. signs were still present and I flushed them with ec 1.0, ph 5.8 and measured the run off. It was ec 2.1 (!!) and ph 5.8. Maybe there were already too much salts in the BioNova Coco Bricks, although it is said on the label, that it was ready to use, without initial flushing... Besides the problem with the over feeding/salt build up, I think, I might have a mg def.?! Please check out my pics, cause I can´t feel happy, if my plants aren´t... Got me some Canna mg today, but I would like to hear different opinions!
SLH

Blue Cheese

Alaskan Ice

Another AI

SLH

Thanks for the input!!

Peace, Ace

PS: Do you water your seedlings/clones every day, even if the Coco is still wet and the plant´s roots haven´t developed completely?

Cruzin · Apr 16, 2009

most of them look really good. if you are using a nute that doesnt have calmag in it, well then you need to add that, but i wouldnt freak out they look super healthy to me.

Solidopc · Apr 16, 2009

Aye, they don't look that bad. Sounds like you ought to flush that coco first before use mind. Do you flish your plants regulary at all? I water my coco plants with plain ph'd water every 3-4th feeding, and never let them sit in any runoff.

When i feed them, i water until the pot is heavy, but i've had no run off. Then i bottom feed them the rest to soak up in their dishes. Anything that isn't soaked up in 10mins is throw away. Seems to work very well and all my coco plants are super healthly. I also add perlite to the mix to help drainage and oxygen and water rentention.

I do have to add a product with Mg and Ca in it myself though. I use the canna coco nutes and canna coco. But for Mg and Ca i use biobizz algamic. You feed it in the water, but it will take a couple of days to see results, or for a quicker result, a leaf spray is much better. It's cheap, and has allsorts of other benficial plant and vegetable extracts, and hormones, amino acids etc. I have used it on soil for years and love it, aswell as the biobizz grow. Dont really like any of their other stuff though.

I rekon you just need to keep going as you are going, except give a plain water feed every 3-4th watering. Flush your coco bricks before use, and buy a product to add some extra Mg and Ca to the mix. It might also be time to start on the proper coco nutes now. Are you using a seedling feed still? Not sure how hesi works, never used anything from them.

AceHaze · Apr 16, 2009

Thank you for your response!

@Cruzin: Yes, i know, that thay ain´t looking that bad, but as I want to keep them as mothers for a long time, i have to keep them healthy for many months... I have bought some Canna Mg and fed them yesterday. Let´s see, if the cloudy parts (Alaskan Ice) will disapear...

@Solidops: Yeah, i should have flushed the coco before using it... I watered yesterday with ec= 1.1, ph=5.8 and the run off was still at 1.9 ec. So it´s clearly a flushing issue. Today, i´m going to give them plain ph´d water, to get rid of the build up. (Thanks for the advice!!) Never heard of using algamic for cal/mag issues, but I will give it a try! At what dosage do you use algamic? And what is your water´s basic ec level (without nutes)?
For the last watering i used hesi coco at 1/2 strength, together with root complex, super vit, Enzymes an Canna mg. But I´m going to give Canna A/B a try; everybody seems to have very good results with them!

Peace,
Ace

rave420 · Apr 17, 2009

AceHaze said:
Hey!

SLH

Holly crap, i have a super lemon haze too, which looks JUST like that, and it happens to be a phenomenal indica like phenotype, it grows like one, looks like an indica, is bushy but has the original lemon haze high with a 20 min couchlock followed by a nice soaring 2 hour high!

See how similar they look?

and here is another picture, but wait...

...till you see the BUSH underneath :yoinks:

She's a slow grower, but damn, she's the bushiest plant i've had, she lets virtually NO light in there.

IMHO, your plants look fine, don't change anything!

AceHaze · Apr 17, 2009

Update...

Update...

Alaskan Ice

Blue Cheese1

Blue Cheese2

I gave them plain ph´d water with 1ml per liter Canna Mg yesterday. The run off was ec=1.6, ph=5.8. The yellow areas on the leaves (Blue Cheese1) seem to get more present; especially on the AI´s and Blue Cheese´s. I´m planning to feed them with Canna A/B at ec=1.3/1.4 today and maybe do some foliar feeding with the Canna mg.
I know, they´re not about to die, but i would love to see some really dark green leaves, without them showing any defs...

@rave420:
They look very similar, indeed! I have never seen this type of leaves before, though...I got 2 Phenos of this type and two more sativa looking. The 5th is some kind of mutant, just stopped growing 2 weeks ago...

I have ordered some algamic,too...Hope that will bring back some colours!

Peace,
Ace

grownowforever · Apr 17, 2009

good luck ace ..you have some nice genetics

rave420 · Apr 17, 2009

AceHaze said:
.
@rave420:
They look very similar, indeed! I have never seen this type of leaves before, though...I got 2 Phenos of this type and two more sativa looking. The 5th is some kind of mutant, just stopped growing 2 weeks ago...

I have ordered some algamic,too...Hope that will bring back some colours!

Have you noticed that the leaves feel like they have fur on them? I find they feel like a wet cloth sort of feel, and they don't feel smooth. Amost like they are hairy, lol.

AceHaze · Apr 18, 2009

@grownowforever: Thanks, hoping the best!

@rave420: Yes, I´ve noticed that...She´s really a fury beast

Is she easy to clone? And how long did your SLH go? What height can I expect and did she yield well?

The Chiesels are doing best at the moment...If you rub the stem, it`s already smelling heavy grapefruity :yummy:

Peace,
Ace

Solidopc · May 20, 2009

Sorry, such a busy forum, i can never trawl through all the new posts to find the threads i posted in.

Your coco sounds extremly high in salts or something. You say you flushed with plain water with 1ml of canna Mg and the runoff was 1.6? That is not good at all. My tap water EC (background EC) is 0.3 EC, so that is one hell of a jump unless your tap water has an extremely high EC. And i'm sure it couldn't be that high.

Your coco needs a few very heavy flushings before use, until you get the in/out readings to somewhere around 0.3 EC. I am flushing a sweet afgani in coco right now. Been in its pot for over 3 months, fed loads. With 2.5ml of final phase per litre, the in EC was 0.49, the runoff EC was 0.80. So just 0.31 difference. Once i get the runoff below 0.3 EC extra than what went in, i know i can chop and it will taste good.

To get a jump from 0.3 to 1.6 would sacre the life out of me. And i think i can safely say, that is where your isues are lying. It might well be it's not that your plant is short of nutrients, but that they are locked out by high salt build up and unstable ph.

What is the ph of the runoff water when it comes out?

If i was you at this point, with those readings, i would flush all my plants very heavily, measuring in/out EC until you get it at least below EC 1.0, preferably even lower. I usually notice a drop of 0.2-0.3 in the runoff EC each time i flush 6 litres of plain water or final phase through a 12 litre pot. If you flush more, you'll likely get it to go down even more. Can give you some tip burn and leaf damage by flushing heavily every day or so, but it's worth it to sort the buggars out, as each time you add more food to that coco, you are compounding the problem. Need to get the medium sorted.

And before you start using the coco next time, flush it like hell first, or buy canna coco and you wont have any of these problems. Never needed to flush canna coco, use it straight out the bag, good stuff.

Hope all goes well. It's all a learning curve afterall.

greenatik · May 20, 2009

did I read that right, 19-25 degrees? fahrenheit? low temps can cause slow growth

ALWAYS rinse the coco, specially the bricked stuff... no matter what it says ime

AceHaze · May 20, 2009

@greenatik: It´s 19-25 Celsius, so it´s close to perfect temperature..

I´m not going to use the Bio Nova bricks again; I was looking for Canna Coco, but i´ts not available in my area and it´s too epensive to order that much on the net. So i got me some BioBizz Coco for the flowering room, which label says it´s got an ec level of 0.3. Anyway i´m going to flush that heavily!

@solidops: Thanks for that detailed post, but my plants are looking fine again; thanks for your advice to use alg-a-mic! Great stuff!! For the last waterings i flushed at ervery
2nd/3rd watering with plain ph´d water and i fed with max ec of 1.1/1.2, ph 5.8. The run off is about 1.4 now and the ph of the run off is 6.2 So it´s all good now

Thanks a lot!

Peace,
Ace

Solidopc · May 20, 2009

Sounds alot better. The runoff ph is still a little high but not too bad and should get better as you continue your plain water feed every few waterings. Biobizz coco is fine, my mate uses it, prefers it to canna, i prefer canna, just opinion i guess, both are good. Glad to hear things are going well now. Algamic is really good stuff, for soil or coco. One of my indispensible products i use allways.

AceHaze · Jul 11, 2009

Update: 2 weeks into flowering

Update: 2 weeks into flowering

Hey Guys!
My Super Lemon Haze, Alaskan Ice, BLue Cheese and Chiesel are in the second week of flowering now. Before I switched to 12/12 erverything looked very healthy. I watered with ec=1.0, ph= 5.8. After switching to 12/12, I recognized some light yellowing of the leaves and some days ago, these problems showed up on the Super Lemon Haze:

Does anybody know, what this is caused by?
My guess is, that this is a def. caused by the low ec level I was watering with.
My run off was ec= 0.9, ph= 6.5 (I can´t figure out, why my run off ph is that much higher than the input?!)
Yesterday I pushed the ec up to 1.35, ph= 5.8 and I hope it will fix the issue!
Any recommendations are welcome!

Peace
ACE

PharmaCan · Jul 12, 2009

(I can´t figure out, why my run off ph is that much higher than the input?!)

Coco has a natural pH of around 7.0, so it tends to push up the pH of whatever is sitting in it - i.e. your nutes. When you water/feed you are rinsing out the old, higher pH stuff. If you take a look at a nutrient absorption chart, you will see that the nutrients you want absorbed by your plant are best absorbed in a certain range. Starting with a low pH nutrient solution and having it gradually rise in the pots is actually a good thing because it makes more nutrients more readily available vis-a-vis the fluctuating pH. (If you look at a chart it becomes pretty obvious what I'm talking about.)

PC

AceHaze · Jul 12, 2009

Thanks for the response!
Yeah. that makes sense to me... This means, if i watered more often (I water once a day), the ph in the medium would be lowered a bit more?! Would be nice, if i could lower the run off ph to 6.2, ´cause this is still in the recommended range for coco. When I was using the Hesi line, my run off never exceeded 6.2. So it seems,it also depends on the nutes.
I hope, they respond well to the higher ec level. I recognized, if you´re growing so many different strain, it´s hard to choose the feeding strength. While the Alaskan Ice is very sensitive and gets burned very fast, the Chiesel is very tolerant. Would have been easier to start with only one or two strains... But I love to have variety!

Peace
Ace

chris1985 · Jul 12, 2009

Solidops said:
Aye, they don't look that bad. Sounds like you ought to flush that coco first before use mind. Do you flish your plants regulary at all? I water my coco plants with plain ph'd water every 3-4th feeding, and never let them sit in any runoff.

When i feed them, i water until the pot is heavy, but i've had no run off. Then i bottom feed them the rest to soak up in their dishes. Anything that isn't soaked up in 10mins is throw away. Seems to work very well and all my coco plants are super healthly. I also add perlite to the mix to help drainage and oxygen and water rentention.

I do have to add a product with Mg and Ca in it myself though. I use the canna coco nutes and canna coco. But for Mg and Ca i use biobizz algamic. You feed it in the water, but it will take a couple of days to see results, or for a quicker result, a leaf spray is much better. It's cheap, and has allsorts of other benficial plant and vegetable extracts, and hormones, amino acids etc. I have used it on soil for years and love it, aswell as the biobizz grow. Dont really like any of their other stuff though.

I rekon you just need to keep going as you are going, except give a plain water feed every 3-4th watering. Flush your coco bricks before use, and buy a product to add some extra Mg and Ca to the mix. It might also be time to start on the proper coco nutes now. Are you using a seedling feed still? Not sure how hesi works, never used anything from them.

This is good info for someone like me a newbie as i grow in coco, and i am using canna coco 50ltr bags and i am feeding with bio bizz grow and also going to be using bio bizz bloom for the flowering with using the bud blood for the 1st week of flowering along with the bio bizz bloom!

I however dont use the coco bricks i use the loose coco as i said so would you still do this to it and add the same amount of things that you have said????

:joint:

chris1985 · Jul 12, 2009

sorry for the hijack btw its just that it fits in good with this convo and whats been said already!

AceHaze · Jul 13, 2009

No Problem man!
I personally think, you don´t have to add perlite or anything else to the coco, ´cause it´s already a very airy medium with good water retention. The canna coco is grade a quality and solidops said, he doesn´t have to flush that before use. (In opposite to the Bio Bizz coco; flushed that shit for 3 days and still wasn´t satified with the readings) I also don´t like to handle with perlite, ´cause you gotta protect youself from the dust...
I´m curious how Bio Bizz works in coco, ´cause i like the idea of organic coco growing...
Thought about trying Bio Sevia from GHE.. But for now i´m satisfied with the canna a/b line!
I highly recommend to use Bio Bizz Alg-a-mic! With my tap water, I always had cal/mag issues until I started using Alg-a-mic!
Good luck with your organic coco grow!
Peace
Ace

AceHaze · Jul 15, 2009

I pushed the ec level up to 1.4 and may ladies are lokkin good again! The first resins glands started to show up and the smell is already amazing, especially the SLH`s and the chiesel`s are awesome! One of the blue cheese ladies is very cheesy indeed... I´m sorry that i can´t upload some pics, cause i only got my mobile phone´s cam and where the flowering takes place are no mobiles allowed...
Keep it green
Ace

Super Lemon Haze/Alaskan Ice in Coco- please help!

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